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The Unbeholden

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  1. This here file will give you a few modifications to the stances currently in v1.2. This isn't really an official OJP change of stances, just a mix of my personal preference of stances.


    I'm in the process of learning Dragon so that I can make some additional frames to better simulate breathing. In the meantime, these are some of the stances that I've come up with using the existent humanoid.gla - apparently the .gla size has been doubled because identical frames have been replicated and tacked on to the original (didn't realize the extent until I waded through half of the frames :/ ).


    Download stance mod here


    Current list of affected stances:

    • Shii-cho
    • Makashi
    • Juyo




    This is a "breathing" Shii-cho stance, a relaxed hasso no kamae, simple and effective position to launch attack and defense from, as is in the spirit of what Shii-cho is intended for. It's similar to the old Shii-cho, except the saber's pointed forward a tiny bit in a slightly threatening posture. The stance is also a bit similar to the default KotOR lightsaber stance. If possible I'd make a Shii-cho variation that resembles chuudan no kamae for a side by side comparison.


    Shii-cho: front left 3/4

    Shii-cho: rear

    Shii-cho: right




    OK, not a lot of choices for Makashi right now, but this one's a lot more relaxed than the previous incarnations that we have used. Nothing's more deceptively arrogant than assuming a relaxed, almost lackadaisical off-center low guard that other people think they can take advantage of. However, the grip is still a classical fencer's grip, slightly angled for maximum dexterity of the wrist. A forward grip like this preserves the range, precision, and fine manipulation incredibly lacking in a reverse grip. The older version of this stance looked way too uncomfortable - imagine having to raise your arm up like that all the time, it gets tiring after a very short while - or the reverse grip, where you're probably feeling like you're going to develop arthritis someday from having to hold that saber in that particular way.


    Added bonus is that if you use a curved hilt (as shown in the pictures below), if you look down slightly below horizontal, your saber drags a little bit on the floor, adding to the relaxed yet menacing posture of the stance.


    Makashi: right side

    Makashi: front right 3/4 #1

    Makashi: front right 3/4 #2 (saber dragging)

    Makashi: front view

    Makashi: front left 3/4

    Makashi: rear left 3/4

    Makashi: rear view

    Makashi: rear right 3/4




    A stance suitable to the spirit of Juyo and looks a bit like kasumi no kamae. This stance is assumed for situations where, as an example, the other guy is threatening you with a jodan and you aim your sword right between his eyes. It's meant to be a deceptive stance where it's hard to predict whether you'll move up for a parry or simply cut the other guy's head in one swift movement. In addition, because of the threatening nature of kasumi, you subtly hinder the choice of movement from your opponent. You're also leaving yourself open intentionally to bait the other guy to attack in a manner that overextends themselves from center line, leaving you with an opportunity to spill their guts open. Swift attack and defense can be launched from this position at unconventional angles.


    Juyo: right side

    Juyo: front right 3/4 #1

    Juyo: front right 3/4 #2

    Juyo: front #1

    Juyo: front #2

    Juyo: left 3/4

    Juyo: left side

    Juyo: rear left 3/4


    It's similar to the stance Revan assumed on his flagship, but on the right side instead. Using a right side-oriented stance flowed better with the attack swings and fakes existent for Juyo. I was intending to do a 2-frame animation loop to simulate breathing, but the following frame pointed the saber too far off-center; if I can figure out how to use Dragon maybe that can be done.


    Future work:


    • I'm looking into another defensive stance for Soresu that doesn't obstruct the view so much in TrueView but still flows well with the animations.
    • Djem So might be retooled a bit into a very aggressive migi hasso variation (compared to the current one).


    Suggestions welcome :)


    great work, making each styles opening stance has to be done in a way where they are all unique looking and adhere to the style combat philosophy.


    looking at the stances in OJP 1.2 enhanced, Juyo is the same as shii-cho .. and Makashi to me seemed a bit rigid,


    You fixed them both, congrats :)


    Yeah, melee stance is being changed. I'm looking into it.


    Some new breathing stances, one for the aforementioned Makashi, as well as one for Viper, just to test how well a jodan stance for Djem So will look good.




    Makashi - right side view

    Makashi - front right 3/4

    Makashi - front view 1

    Makashi - front view 2

    Makashi - front view 3

    Makashi - front left 3/4

    Makashi - left side view

    Makashi - left rear 3/4

    Makashi - rear view


    Djem So


    Djem So - left side view

    Djem So - rear left 3/4

    Djem So - rear view

    Djem So - rear right 3/4 1

    Djem So - rear right 3/4 2

    Djem So - right side view 1

    Djem So - right side view 2

    Djem So - front right 3/4 1

    Djem So - front right 3/4 2

    Djem So - front right 3/4 3

    Djem So - front view

    Djem So - front left 3/4


    Retooling Juyo. Was working on it first, but then Dragon crashed due to my screen saver activating.


    the djem so you have here is actually anakin's Shien stance. But it doesn't matter cause any stance can be used with any style, plus It really separates itself from the others, nice work.


    Makashi here is better then the last one!! its slightly higher which very much resembles this...




    beautiful work :) i can really see this getting the gold star from Razorace...

  2. Force Heal change:

    Okay, really, is force heal movie like? I mean come on! If "force heal" was canon then Dara, that jedi apprentice from one of the star wars books would have survived the battle she died in. Sorry, not realistic.


    The change:

    Force heal would become a "passive" ability.


    Force Heal LVL 1: Force user heals 1 point of health every 5 seconds, meditating bumps this to 2 points every 5 seconds.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 8.25 minutes w/o meditation.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 4.125 minutes w/ meditation.


    Force Heal LVL 2: Force user heals 1 point of health every 4 seconds, meditating bumps this up to 3 points every 5 seconds.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 6.6 minutes w/o meditation.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 2.75 minutes w/ meditation.


    Force Heal LVL 3: Force user heals 1 point of health every 3 seconds, meditating bumps this up to 3 points every 4 seconds.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 4.95 minutes w/o meditation.

    From 1 hp to 100 hp takes 2.2 minutes w/ meditation.


    And to even it out for mercs:

    Once applied bacta takes time to work (and only works on wounds taken at the time, a coding nightmare no doubt).


    Once applied:

    Bacta lvl 1: User is healed 3 points of health every 5 seconds. No meditation allowed :p.

    Bacta lvl 2: User is healed 4 points of health every 5 seconds. No meditation allowed.

    At lvl 1 1 hp to 100 hp takes 2.75 minutes.

    At lvl 2 1 hp to 100 hp takes 2.06 minutes.


    The heal suggestion is tops.


    as for Force rage, increases saber attack speed and saber damage. if you run into someone it knocks them down.


    I reckon force protection, damage goes to force points instead of health.


    Remove the medpacks then... I mean' date=' we've discussed buyable shields, bacta canisters and droppable medpacks so why should there be stuff lying around the map?[/quote']


    Finally, we can make maps clean. If this idea comes in fruition i will kiss you all :xp:


    instead of picking up shields make them buyable for mercenaries :D

  3. Surely max you would've realized by now, perhaps learned from the Jedi Masters mistakes?


    Some people are just stupid.


    though the jedi masters weren't stupid, they where arrogant... which is a form of stupidity. their adherence to a single concept the jedi code was one of the most crippling of all their failings. And in the end it cost them everything.

  4. sure there is. take a group of Djem so practioners, and i bet you 75% of them will use the same opening stance. Simply cause theres always a certain stance that suits a style the best... saying there isn't one for the styles is like saying there isn't a perfect apple from the tree.


    trust me when i say one apple will always be juicer then the rest. :D

  5. All I see is specific jedi's personal stance preferences...


    based on the mentality and guidelines a form, there is always one or two stances that a form is effective with, but one particular stance focuses on the advantages of the particular form.


    For example, Djem so is an aggressive form, thus it uses a stance that is ready to do a swing.

  6. Makashi opening stance.

    The opening stance for Makashi was a single-handed low guard, with the blade angled downward at the practitioner's side



    Opening stance for ataru

    The opening stance for Ataru was a balanced two-handed guard: holding the lightsaber vertically with both palms, either on the right or left side of the body.



    opening stance for Niman



    opening stance for Juyo (revan)



    shii-Cho opening stance.

    The hilt would be held at hip height, the dominant foot was back with the tip of the blade pointing over the opponents head


    Shien opening stance

    Shien was a high guard position, with the hilt held in a two-handed grip above the user's head, and the blade angled upwards and behind the user. The dominant leg would be back, enabling powerful step-through strikes to be utilized. Shien does not use the backwards grip, there is another unorthodox style that does so, though its users are often Shien stylists as well.


    Soresu opening stance

    Back hunched, a good defensive posture, is ready for any occurrence but is also non-threatening. light saber at a position that easily can parry most attacks, Obi-wan uses it for most blocks.



    if you want to know more then read here ... it tells us all the different stances, neutral, aggressive and defensive.


  7. Ah yes the Rpers. People have for a long time been looking for a Role Playing star wars game. unfortunately there is no Starwars game like that. there are RPG that allow some role playing but it really doesn't quench the thirst unless your playing with a living human being... so the Rpers constantly look for the fix, OJP does provide that for a pretty good RP experience. Ive seen more RPers using OJP.


    Im all up for more RP support. as it could make a ground base of loyal RP supporters which can be a good thing for the mod, considering that most Rpers are really hard core star wars fans, that I bet are forum members to any and every stars wars forum on the internet's. Which means spreading the word on the mod pretty far.


    I'm speaking from personal experience here :D

  8. ^lol


    Alright, let's steer this into a direction.


    What do you guys think of these ideas for point garnering:


    -single points-

    +hard to earn

    +everything costs the same amount :ussr:

    +things locked down until you open them up via other skills


    Nice :)



    +bigger amounts (i.e 1500 credits for an e-11 and training, ammo)

    +easier to earn


    hmm, this concept doesn't really fit with the game. Though its a excellent concept in KOTOR. But thats a long single player game RPG. while this is a short and quick random fights. I think we should keep the current system we have, but slowly build the skill tree idea until its made properly. If it works well then we'll stick with it.


    From what I've read the skill tree is much superior to our current skill system.

  9. Yes, also make it so that Force telekineses can be used when you using force grip. But make it limited, you can't throw a person right and then left. When using grip if you throw them right then they will fly in that direction and knock into something. So you can't keep them gripped and knocking them left and right and left and right cause thats retarded...


    Yer so make limitations, if thats possible so the force ability isn't that powerful.

  10. Light side Force users channel the Force by meditation, harmony, and positive emotions - for the purpose of defense, never to attack/kill - Yoda's words in Episode V.


    Dark side Force users channel the Force as a concentrated, focused release of extreme emotion (usually negative) as the catalyst.


    These are completely different methodologies of wielding the Force. Mastery of one while attempting mastery of another comes at some cost, something that's well reflected in how Light/Dark Force powers were given bonuses and penalties depending on your alignment in KotOR.


    Think about it - you're a Jedi and asked to tap into your Rage (a temptation of the Dark Side), and then immediately you have to heal yourself (let's consider that a Light Side power). So one moment you're reeling from allowing yourself to tap into all these negative emotions, and then the next moment you're supposed to be all Zen-like? Or is it easier to imagine that you're already in a peaceful meditative state to tap into Light Force powers, such that you can readily call upon other Light Force powers without extra strain? That is what we should simulate with the Light/Dark Force power dichotomy. Tapping into both sides must come at some cost.


    If you want to discuss gameplay mechanics or talk about Star Wars canon, please don't plagiarize Wookieepedia and pass it off as if you wrote all that. We've talked about this before, and I really hope you ween off the bad habit before it gets you in some kind of academic trouble.


    I agree,


    I was quoting Wookieepedia, any dumb ass can see that.


    Darth Traya was slowly corrupted by the Potentium philosophy and shunned by the Order. Note that in the end of the game she was revealed to be a Sith, used highly questionable manipulations of other characters throughout the entire story, and furthermore wanted to destroy the Force, an idea that is inherently very tainted with the influence of the Dark side. The lure of DS is very subversive, and some people don't even realize that they've fallen until they're in deep - like Jacen from NJO and Atris from KotOR 2.


    Very morally wrong in many ways to manipulate everyone for her own will. But she wanted to destroy the force, because she hated the fact that it controlled us all. That we had to fight this never ending battle between light and dark for the rest of eternity. She hated anyone who had connection to the force, the only reason why she used for force was to understand it in order to destroy it, killing force users wasn't enough. She had to kill the force, but how can you kill a entity of unlimited power and a will that guides all? She found a way to create "echoes" in the force, she first discovered this injury in the force with in the exile.


    Her hatred of the Force is fueled by anger but, if she did not kill it, even more lives would be lost in the future. Thus this supports the Potentium Philosophy, in that she used the dark side of the force but her intentions where good. NOT evil.


    So basically she believed the ends justify the means.


    I whole heartedly agree with this, so I share the same views as Traya... and im not tainted by the dark side :lol: or am I? :D


    So I think the force doesn't turn us into something where not, it actually gives us our deepest darkest desires to life, where it be evil or good depends on the individual.


    Even if it isn't supported by most i stand by this philosophy simply because i don't like star wars the way it is. So I guess we can't argue about this anymore.

  11. Uhhhh, you completely missed my point. The Potentium heresy is heresy for a reason. Channeling the Dark Side ultimately corrupts you. It's incompatible with the Light Side. Palpatine used the Potentium heresy to attempt to lure Anakin in Ep III (the scene where Anakin tells Palpatine that Obi-Wan's engaged Grievous). Vergere, a fallen Jedi who came under instruction of Palpatine, used the Potentium heresy to lure Jacen, who ultimately fell to the Dark Side, believing he could master both sides. Yoda hunted down Potentium heretics at some point because of the danger of the Potentium theory in luring people to the Dark Side. Looking further back, there were the examples of Ulic Qel-Droma, Kreia, and even Revan.


    Darth Traya is evidence that contradicts what you said. Not to mention there where other Potentium members that never became sith,


    Heresy is a good thing, "If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal."


    Sure Palpatine uses this, but he used this philosophy to try to turn anakin for evil intentions. Where as the philosophy itself isn't evil.


    face it jedi are flawed.


    Jedi Masters refused to believe in the Potentium view because it would mean the Jedi weren't needed to fight evil, for evil would not exist. the council believed that it was the duty of the Jedi to use the Force to protect others, not study its absolute limits.


    Lets not forget Darth Revan, Sure he was a Sith and used evil methods but his intentions where good, this supported the Potentium philosophy.

  12. Wiki up the Potentium heresy. I'm reluctant to bring up the NJO stuff because the writers have left a very bad taste in my mouth on how they handle the NJO characters, but there's a reason why Luke brought back the orthodox Dark/Light distinctions of the Force and got rid of the Potentium philosophy. Caedus being a big reason. Palpatine also used this idea to lure Anakin in Ep III. Besides, you're talking about the exception and not the norm. We want to simulate the norm in gameplay, not the exception - one reason why Sever Force would be a crap power in a game, as an example. Or multiple people who're as uber as to be in-game equivalents of Legacy era Luke Skywalker (even someone with 500 skill points to use won't even come close to a Luke).


    hmm interesting. So Light and Dark isn't inherently good or evil, depends on the individual. Everybody has their own Light and Dark potential. Only those that have more Dark side potential are the ones that use their dark side for evil purposes. Using the Dark side of the force isn't evil, if the intention isn't evil. So its possible to use the Dark side of the force for good intentions. Interesting. I think the Potentium philosophy makes the most sense, in that the force isn't split into good and evil. But people are. Light side can be used for evil intentions just like the dark side. I have been enlightened, thank you Master Tanqexe. I will meditate on this.



    I was being nice about your penchant for overstating the obvious. Don't be an ass.


    Misread. Your diction wasn't very clear. I think what you were intending to say was that use of Light Side powers were more meditative, not suppressive of emotions but finding inner peace, while Dark Side powers were more like capitalizing on one's emotional lack of equilibrium.




    Yeah, like it makes so much sense to master both Light and Dark Side powers when the fundamental basis for channeling them are so opposite of each other. And it makes so much sense gameplay-wise to be be all "I AM OVER 9000!!!11" with level 3 everything so you're some ubergod who's really just compensating for something, eliminating the careful calculations one has to make to beat other people. If we're going to focus more on tactical gameplay, the latter is the more sensible approach. The Ubergod complex is for prepubescents.


    im not an ass... Your the ass. :confused:


    many have mastered both light and dark. Such as Darth Traya for instance, learning to control your emotion, meditation techniques and unleashing your anger when its needed is possible. Training both light and dark can be vigorous and time consuming, but some have spent alot of time on it and succeeded surprisingly well.


    Not to mention resisting the lure of the dark side without completely succumbing to its influence. Using its power none the less, very interesting i found it. I think that if lust for power isn't in your heart then i think it won't corrupt you. Darth Traya is evidence of that.


    So its entirely possible in being powerful in both light and dark, if enough time is spent in learning both its mysteries.


    Revan was another powerful Sith that even though used evil methods, his intentions where good.


    this supports this fact....


    "Darth Revan's brutally efficient invasion of the galaxy had been part of a complex plan to secure the Republic from a long-hidden threat known as the "True Sith", suggesting that Revan had departed on a solitary quest to defeat them once and for all."


    "perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."


    "Leading his hidden forces to the Lehon system, Revan began to realize his plans. Though the Star Forge was capable of granting vast power to those who fully embraced its dark nature, Revan minimized his exposure to the ancient space station, using it purely to construct an enormous fleet with which to conquer the Republic. Darth Malak, horrified that his master would reject such strength, would later balk at what he perceived to be Revan's stupidity, yet the truth was that Revan was far from ignorant."


    "Revan, unlike his apprentice, understood the dangerous consequences of drawing upon the Star Forge too heavily. The artifact had led the Infinite Empire to its doom: fueling the Rakatan species' hate, driving them to civil war. Revan had no intention of letting over-reliance on the Star Forge disrupt the order he planned to bring to the galaxy. As with everything else, he would use it for as long as he needed it, then discard it."


    "Revan was an incredibly talented and diligent student of the Force—perhaps the most gifted of his time—and eventually, by all accounts, became a very powerful Force practitioner. As one of the few individuals in galactic history to reach the heights of Sith power and return to the Jedi, he proved himself highly skilled in the use of both the dark and light sides of the Force."

  14. Well we certainly don't want to pull a Force Spawn-The-Rabbit-And-Fling-It-At-People-Like-It's-A-Javelin out of our collective asses, that goes without saying.


    No shhit.


    Dark Side powers require concentration too, it's not like someone enters emo mode and whoever is more emo is more powerful in the Dark Side.


    I never said it didn't.


    Now for gameplay purposes, we will have to assign Light and Dark side powers a certain way. I guess in general, there needs to be a cost to having level 3 of any of these Light/Dark oriented powers, just as there are currently limits on guns vs Force. Or, alternatively (and more complicated), it may be possible to access both Light/Dark powers equally. However, certain powers cost extra FP to use depending on the amount of skill points invested in either Light or Dark powers overall - cheaper to use if completely invested in one side, more costly to access powers on the other side, and average cost if equal.


    Absorb needs to be moved into the Neutral column, though. Plus I'm a proponent of chargeable TK powers.


    Indeed, limitations on everything, limitation is what makes players happy :D (sarcasm)

  15. I think healing and shields should be bought instead of found around the map. So im very much against having crap around the map that you pick up, cause that isn't realistic. All players that come to a battle field can't rely on a battle field to supply them anything to help them survive.


    Scavenging off your opponent i think should be very possible, along with scavenging items like a sentry, or force field. not just guns.


    Shield is very worthy skill, just as worthy as bacta, if not more.


    thing about force is that you can't scavenge it, lightsaber is useless to someone who isn't trained. Thats the advantage of force skills.

  16. hmm i believe the force powers in OJP should be force powers which are canon, and have references, then from that we can stem as much balancing as is required (even though logically force powers could beat everything LOL)


    Force powers should remain what they are, Tanqexe suggested many times that he does not want Dark Rage or Protection force powers to be in. I after playing with them the 10th time see the novelty wear off. I think been faithful to starwars is important as well as been realistic and balanced. Infinite number of ways to use the force.


    Have a good combination of these 3 criteria means that we can have a good mod. I been a large fan, supporter and contributer to it want only whats best.




    Could help some brainstorming.


    oddly it says this


    'Jedi mind trick', Affect Mind or Persuasion is a universal force power, not a light side power. :p oh noes. Peronally i think Universal force powers are in fact Light side powers. Concentration, suppressing emotion. While dark side is embracing anger, perhaps even controlling anger to use its destructive ends whenever its needed.

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