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Darth Primus

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  1. And what's that supposed to mean, being all-knowing? I meant people like you, who feel a game only really is Star Wars if you can feel you're playing through the films five seconds into the game, from text crawl to fade out. KotOR is the only Star Wars game not set in or about the eras of the movies. But that's only perceivable because they said so in some point. If they had not, well, nobody would be able to tell the difference.
  2. They don't "tie it in". Not at all. Their story is stand-alone, face it. It could go on unchanged if there was no Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma or whoever else they merely mention in the game. The only change would be with the unimportant rodian, who'd have different tales to tell, and the old Jedi, who'd have different tales to tell. But then, the rodian is unimportant and what's really remarkable about that Jedi is the fact he likes to crack wise. The very fact they don't go beyond citing Kun and others is an absurd, considering KotOR comes by only 40 years after Kun ravaged the Jedi Order like he did. The only reference is an aged Jedi, but he can't really be a reference, because his counts are inconsistent with the time he's supposed to have experienced. As much as you're glad BW made the decision to approve the Prequel Trilogy Knights of the Old Republic, I'm sure as hell glad Nomi Sunrider was tackled out of it! Imagine the mess it'd be, seeing KotOR like what, twelve years after the Sith Wars, with it's Jedi Council and all that anachronistic crap! If it wasn't bad enough fourty years removed from those events... Nah, I'm quite sure it's an insult pretty much the way it is. Where they deign to cite TotJ for more than saying the names of the famout people, they misquote the series. Pfeh! The Nebulon Ranger isn't a beetle spaceship. The SunGem, Arca Jeth's starship, wasn't a beetleship. The Republic war cruisers were not beetle ships. Kun's starship wasn't a beetle ship. The Starbreaker 12 wasn't a beetle ship. The Corsair wasn't a beetle ship. The Star Sabers weren't beetle ships. Neither was Hoggon's ship, the ion-collecting ships from Exxis station... Oh yes! Now I remember! That useless freighter belonging to a half-broke merchant lord of the Stennes system, who had to hire security from the hutt lord Bogga, that was a beetle-ship. Hmm. So you'd rather pilot the Millenium Falcon, on it's flight from an Imperial Star Destroyer after being caught in a tractor beam? I'm pretty sure Star Wars: Rogue Squadron may have one mission that resembles that. Without being anachronistic. Because the Ebon Hawk fleeing from an Interdictor-class cruiser doesn't strike me as something quite new and exciting. We all saw that action of turn-off-the-tractor-beam before, and it wasn't on KotOR. So if you wanna play that too, I suggest you play Super Nintendo's Episode IV adaptation. It's quite a classic. Like Super Mario. Wrong. So people like you would actually play the game. If I wanted to experience Episode IV for plot, I'd watch it. If I wanted to experience Prequel Trilogy for settings, I'd watch it. Now when a game is set fourty years after Exar Kun's time, what do I get? Prequel-dressed Episode IV. No, no, by all means play it! Wouldn't want you to forget the main plotline, so messed up as it is. Wow. To actually seem sarcastic, you have to outline it blatantly? You'll go a long way, kid! And are you now so short on arguments you're now prone to this empty bragging? Now that's just plain cute, sonny. You indeed have a long way to go.
  3. Darth Vader was in a very-near-death situation. He never died. Darth Sion was dead, the Exile struck him down personally (like what, six times?!?) before "convincing" him he should really be dead by then. I'll tell you how Nihilus is worse than Sadow and Sidious. The two Sith Lords personally never had the power to destroy worlds. The Death Star and the Corsair did. Lemme remind you the first planet to be hit by the Death Star's superlaser was only hit because Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin ordered it. Grand Moff Tarkin... was not even Force-sensitive, let alone a Sith Lord. The same goes to Sadow: he never personally held the power to blow up stars, the Corsair did. So much so that Aleema Keto, a mere Sith sorceress who couldn't even meddle with Alchemy, was able to destroy the stars of the Cron cluster, and summon the death of Ossus by that. But Darth Galactus waives such "mundane" contraptions. He was in all aspects a one-man Death Star, and every Sith that followed him had the potential to be one as well. Hell, the Exile had the potential to be one as well! The OP wouldn't fight Revan. Revan's a fictional character, who can lift objects with the power of his mind and choke people to death. And he's a poor fictional character at that, a "Mary Sue", as Alexrd said. Well, this is one of the points of my original post: KotOR is as it is because if it were not, it wouldn't yield this much rating, as it still does six years after it's release. EDIT: Besides, Negative, I never said KotOR should be copied outright from TotJ. I merely believe their disregard for TotJ was a friggin' insult. And why did they disregard? Because if they didn't, KotOR wouldn't look like the films, and then some people would think it really has nothing to do with Star Wars if there isn't a Jedi Council, Padawans, wedge-shaped starships, red-bladed lightsabers, the Ebon Falcon/Millenium Hawk and the Sith ultimate space station that wins the war for them.
  4. Precisely. His actions were defined by just that. For example, had Qui-gon been set to chase Jango Fett in Episode II, I wouldn't believe he'd make as many reports to the Council as Obi-wan did. He'd just go after Jango and, once that was cleared, he'd sort out the details and report later. Well, when one discusses a broad matter such as the Sith, or the Jedi, sticking to one era is too restrictive. Because they change over time. Granted. It was 4000 years of fighting Sith. 5000 BBY: Great Hyperspace War 4000 BBY: Old Sith Wars 3000 BBY: The rise of Darth Ruin 1000 BBY: The rise of Darth Bane, the 7 Battles of Ruusan and the Ruusan Reformation And that impression you spoke of ended with the rising of Darth Maul. I know that the 50 years the Jedi spent knowing the Sith from the death of Darth Maul to the death of Palpatine is little compared to the 950 years of ignorance, but the fact remains: they were adapted to fight the old Sith, which were a threat from without. Not the new ones, which happened to be berthed at the seat of galactic government. Up to the point of the Ruusan Reformation, I have a different perception of the Order. I feel the change that undergoes the Order after each major crisis is not as radical as the change resulting from the Ruusan Reformation itself. I see that period as a period of radical change to both orders: of the Sith and of the Jedi. But that's me, and I have little argument to support that. But since I was referring throughout my text to Jedi of Yoda's time, it matters little too. Like I said before, I was referring to the Jedi of Yoda's time. I meant to say too much thought about everything can be detrimental. But the most important issues should have that amout of thought, like I said in my first post. What do you have of objective then? I believe in the following philosophy: "Want something done? Do it yourself." That's been clear from the start. If I call it "punk philosophy", "Sith philosophy" or "Teletubbie philosophy" is entirely up to me, and irrelevant in all its aspects. Well, I don't like that term. xD I blend some Jedi and some Sith precects. But I tend to lean more towards the Sith side of things (always was one to cheer for the bad guys).
  5. Well, then this was a result of a faulty usage of words. By website, I understood Lucasforums as a whole, not just the KotOR section of the website Lucasforums. I might be saying the same. To me, my arguments are perfectly justified. So much so that you won't convince me otherwise, no matter what you say. To you, certainly your arguments are perfectly justified as well, though I cannot say if anything I say can actually change your mind (I sure as hell know that's not the reason I posted this thread in the first place). "Some" of the Sith. In the entirety of TotJ, only Sadow can use his power safely (for himself). In the entirety of TotJ, that power is used only three times. Two times by the power's master, one time by an average Jane who didn't know what she was dealing with, and in the process destroyed the very means of ever using such power again. I may be rationalizing, but at least it's possible to rationalize it over in this case. What's to say of Darth Sion then? Or Darth Galactus, what would you say about him? So yes, TotJ may have overstepped in putting Sadow's nova-inducing starship. But you should also admit the zombie and Galactus are far worse, in most respects. As long as there are people willing to discuss this (a.k.a., people replying to this thread), I'll sure as hell do too.
  6. Lol, I wans't even aware there were such such threads. My comment was made for solely one purpose: justifying my opinion. In fact, for that very purpose it is not strictly necessary. To be a Sith requires acceptance of philosophical concepts. Such as desire power for power's sake, survival of the fittest... That sort of thing. If the Sith were only and truly defined by their darkside, simple thugs such as Xanatos and all the bunch of "common" darksiders that certainly do exist throughout the SW universe could brag on about being Sith. That's not what I meant when I said that. I meant to say Qui-gon was less prone to go by the book, as was the Jedi way at the time (Yoda's way too, as he demonstrates when Obi-wan in knighted by the end of Episode I), and was more prone to go about on his instincts, to do what must be done. To the first part, I see it is fair enough. As to the second, I believe KotOR is actually indissociable from general Star Wars. In fact, it's bloody supposed to be, because it is part of a whole, and that whole happens to be hmmm... general Star Wars. Sure will. No, it's because after 4000 years of fighting the Sith, the Jedi decided to go over everything that has passed, and try to correct the mistakes they made that allowed each time for a Sith Lord to emerge from the ranks of the Jedi Order itself and shake its foundations, set the galaxy on fire, etc... I'm referring to their behaviour as a whole: they sat back and talked about everything, from the tenets of the Order to its political stance, where only the most important issues should deserve such an approach. A matter of opinion, in my opinion. And I may be here to discuss Star Wars, but not punk philosophy and your interpretation of it. I'm not discussing ethereal concepts involving states of mind and all that, I'm discussing philosophical approaches on how to handle most situations. I don't f$%*@ up people for my own benefit, that's what I was trying to say.
  7. The way of the Sith is not necessarily the way of war. In fact, it has little to do with it, if you think through pretty carefully. Like the Jedi do, the Sith use war as a tool, a tool to make their points clear. Palpy showed that, when he had the Republic's war won just to turn the Republic into an Empire. While the Jedi, since before the days of Master Odan-Urr and the Great Hyperspace War, knew that some people you just can't reason with: you gotta smack them in the head hard enough to convince them to back down. A Sith who's only a Sith because he's a war-lover is not really a Sith: he's a war-lover. A true Sith is a control-lover. If he can achieve control by going into war, he does so. If he can achieve control without the ignition of his lightsaber, so much the better. If he can have his enemies fight a war for him, that's good too. Or he can have his enemies destroy each other in war. Likewise, calling the Jedi pacifists is a gross simplification: Jedi do what needs to be done to ensure that peace and prosperity will take hold eventually. Even if it means to go to war. The difference is: it is quite rare for the Republic (and therefore the Jedi) to start a war, because the very nature of that government and the Order is contrary to needless expansionism/imperialism. While to the Sith, the need for dominance and control is natural to their philosophy, and these things more often than not require a war. But our good Sith Lord Darth Sidious shows there are really many forms to gain control, such as when he assassinated the non-Neimoidian heads of the Trade Federation, thus asserting exclusive neimoidian control over the body. And therefore, exclusive Sith control of the body. I would say I am. Bad thing of being a scientist (maybe it's a good thing) - I have to know next to everything about something before I can decide what to do with this something. Depends. I can act rashly, but for the most important issues, I tend to sit back and meditate, in order to decide how to deal with the problem best. All the time. ? I help those who help me. As for those who do not, and especially those whom I don't like, well, I don't usually go out of my way for these people. That's relative. Embracing the Dark Side makes nobody a follower of Sith philosophy, it just makes them... well, prone to fall to the Dark Side. The Sith are more than darksiders. The problem is not showing emotions, the problem is being controlled by them. That's the way I see it, however. Qui-Gon, for his attachments, to me was wiser than Master Yoda, with his distant denial of earthly connections. This reeks of KotOR to me, I wonder why... You're wrong. It is the way of the Jedi during Yoda's time to be less pro-active than they were on sources other than KotOR. But this isn't true of all time periods in the Star Wars universe, just read Tales of the Jedi, Jedi vs. Sith, or pretty much anything on the EU. In fact, it's unecessary even to go that far. Just look at Luke Skywalker. Does anybody deny his actions were pivotal in redeeming Vader and thus ending the reign of the Sith? Thinking like a Jedi is not thinking everything through over and over again: it's trying to see all ends, in order to make the best decision to face any problem you might have to face. Me? I lean towards the Sith philosophy (the punk philosophy, actually): you want something done, do it yourself. But I tend to stick to this gray side: people should learn to walk with their own legs. But for me to take the right course of action, well, it takes a bloody hell of a lot of meditation. Though only for the most important issues: the least important issues are not so important as to demand much thought. And I don't try to reach my goals despite of consequences to other people, either.
  8. I must apologize then, for I didn't quite notice if I tried to use other's people devotion as an argument. You are quite right: I do have a devotion to TotJ, whereas most other people have the same sort of devotion to KotOR. First off, this website is for Star Wars lovers, not exclusively KotOR lovers. I happen to be a SW lover and KotOR hater. Secondly, I expected no specific reaction at all from any of you. I was relaying my views on KotOR in the KotOR area of the Star Wars forum. Just that. Actually, I was wondering what you people had to say to KotOR's defense. Really, I'm not impressed. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I'm trying to explain my views. That's quite different. I guess it's because its villains are overpowered and in the end the plot was really just about destroying the Force. That's like plotting to take over the world or outright destroying the world if you ask me. So yes, that's Star Wars for kids, in an almost Gargamel-like fashion. So here am I blabbering on about storyline and all that crap, and all I get for a reply is the game's rating, ewoks and the fact KotOR is an RPG. Did you ever play Super Mario RPG? It's an RPG. And it's for kids. Besides, 13-years old people are kids to me. I sure know I was a kid when I was 13. So was my sister. And my parents too, from what they tell me. But that's relative. Besides, the storyline of the Prequel Trilogy is far deeper and more involving at all than the storyline of the Old Trilogy. So despite the flashyness and Jar Jar Binks. So the Prequels are more mature than the Original Trilogy, and the KotOR series as a whole. KotOR is a fluid game, it has good gameplay, and an interesting combat and levelling-up system. But that's game mechanics. When I stop to compare KotOR to TotJ, however, where storyline and setting are concerned, I find the KotOR wanting in all those aspects I've already said. Thank you. Well, if TotJ is to be put on the wall, as it has been since the beginning of the thread, I guess I might as well say something about it. To me, the TotJ series is really defined by the Freedon Nadd Uprising, The Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith Wars. Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon and The Saga of Nomi Sunrider serve more as guidelines to the main context of the settings. It does that pretty clearly to me, and we'll get to that in a moment. Well, the feel is certainly different. The early stories in TotJ (I mean the first ones to be released, not the earliest in the timeline) all suggest a decentralized Jedi leadership. Each master trains his "batch" of apprentices mostly apart from each other, each has his own training center. In KotOR (the comics too, I believe, though I haven't had the opportunity to read more than one or two chapters), there are central places of learning, where batches of Jedi masters gather. Places such as Dantooine, Coruscant, Taris (and Telos too, unless I'm mistaken). Also, the Dark Side makes itself elusive throughout the whole development of the tales. So much so that an unexperienced Jedi such as Ulic believes that the it can be dealt with peacefully, and he does that not once, but two times: when he tries to convince Amanoa to put an end to the war, and when he chooses to tread the dangerous path of invading the Krath to break the sect from within. Perhaps KotOR 1 is more faithful to this feel than the other, and the comics, but the overall feeling I get from everything KotOR and TOR-related is that, despite there being some sort of freedom (as displayed by Revan's rebellion), the Council makes the Order gravitate about itself. For example, the Council chooses who is to become fitting to teach other Jedi or not, as Batila says in the conversations with her. However, the overall feel of TotJ suggests to me that the one who'd feel whether a Jedis training was truly complete would be his particular Jedi master at the time. If the master felt the "apprentice" could learn nothing else from him, he'd send him over to another master, to continue/complete the training. There also appears to be no clear distinction between a Jedi Knight and an apprentice at the time: Ulic, Cay and Tott all were apprentices to master Arca, but they were assigned missions of great importance to the Republic (such as the pacification of Onderon). While K1 has some similar features, such as sending an apprentice on the mission to destroy the Dark Lord of the Sith and sending another to hunt for the relics that would've made Revan powerful in the first place, the ones with the last word are always those in the Jedi Council. The Council forbade Jedi from joining in the Mandalorian wars. The Council ordered Bastila to hunt down Revan. The Jedi Council ordered Revan to find the Star Maps. The Council chooses who becomes Master, who becomes Knight or who remains an Apprentice. That is shown on the comics: Zayne Carrick would remain an apprentice, while his companions were to be made Jedi Knights, with a special ceremony and all. K2, on the other hand, goes far away from that. Although there are few Jedi to speak of throughout the game, the counts given by those who exist (especially Atris and Vrook) and the recording in the droid on Dantooine suggest otherwise: apprentices shackled to their masters, who must do only as they were told by their particular master and as the Council instructs their master to do. Those differences are fundamental, though really they are all I have to go with. But to me, they are central. I'd only go as far as saying the design is unique in the Star Wars universe (I'm not saying unique overall, I don't even know Stargate and Conan). And what matters the most, it is different from both movies. And it is supposed to, as I said, because of the lapse in the timeline. It certainly makes no bloody difference at all, whether the Corsair looks as it did or if it looks as the Executor, but what really matters is that at least the drawers of TotJ had the initiative of doing something different. KotOR, in the other hand, did not. They went straight over to the design everyone is accustomed with: the Sith have all those wedge-shaped starships. The Sith have red-bladed lightsabers and so forth. K2 even goes as far as changing one of the few unique designs presented in K1, the Jedi robes, into the robes seen in the movies. I agree with you on that. The brain in a jar Jedi was a pretty stupid idea. As was the hutt owner of a repair dock, which doesn't at all act as a hutt is supposed to, with his warm-hearted attachment to the Daragons. But at least the setting is worried about "making things right": the hutt in the end is worried about his reputations, because hutts aren't really supposed to extend credit as he did, so he asks it to not be revealed to anyone. K1, on the other hand, puts hutts on menial tasks acting grand: one is the chief of a dueling ring. The other is the spokesman of Davik's bounty hunter corps (a hutt underling? That sounds plain stupid). And the last one is a minor owner of a swoop track. That too is a very innovative idea. And it summons instantly the feel of change from the timeline of 5000 years later. As does Kun's invention of the double-bladed lightsaber, which is later trivialized by K1, putting the lamest of all Sith with double-bladed lightsabers allegedly "of their own construction" to summon Darth Maul feelings. Such a Sith is Darth Bandon, the evil-doer and very mean Sithy, and the poorest right-hand-man of a Sith Lord in all history. As to BioWare's "mindfullness" (does that even exist? XD) of cannon is rather questionable, and ends when it comes to design, and to the nature of their "True Sith" empire: they are offshoots of Naga Sadow's empire, are they not? Why then does the legion that invades the Jedi Temple on Coruscant is comprised of no member of the Sith species? If they lived in isolation and secrecy, and were true Sith (in both the sect and species approach), how is it their leaders are all human? The thick of their forces are mandalorians? Where are the Massassi? And they say from the beginning their Sith Emperor was always, erm, a Sith Emperor. That instantly summons Naga Sadow. Except for the fact Sadow lived the rest of his life on Yavin IV and was not heard from since Nadd paid him a visit, became a Sith Lord, looted his treasure and went off to become king of Onderon. And who loots the treasure of a Sith Lord? The one who kills him, of course. I won't disagree completely, where the tales of the Old Sith Empire are concerned. It seems forced and pushed over at times. But some things are very interesting, and set about by those two story arcs: the Sith at first were a species: TOR disconsiders that fact when their Sith Lords are all human that seem to follow Darth Revan's view of things, such as the design of the Sith officer's uniforms and all their red-bladed lightsabers. As to Sadow's overpowered ability of destroying a star, I have to say again: just because its not shown doesn't mean there isn't some major drawback from using that sort of power. The fact Sadow left it as a manner of last resort is actually an argument to my favour. And it wasn't really Sadow's power. That kind of power was allowed not by Sadow, but by his starship. But to use it safely, one must hold tremendous control over the Force and the dark side. Aleema Keto blew herself up trying to use that, so that proves my point. Besides, your KotOR also makes use of that tool: the Star Forge could be used in a similar way, not where destroying a star is concerned, but where only the most powerful Force-users and dark-siders could wield the Star Forge's power without harming themselves. I don't disagree with you. But there is something to be said: in KotOR, the Sith and the Jedi, where power is concerned, are told apart by their Force lightning and their Force choke. Much like in the Prequels and the Original Trilogy. While in TotJ, the Sith's power is really defined by their touch to the old ways of the Sith: sorcery and alchemy, ancient trinkets, holocrons and Sith spiritis. Lightning and Force choke are secondary (in fact, I believe they are absent altogether). So if Revan and Malak really learned the ways of the Sith from the "true heirs of the Old Sith Empire", as cannon sets them to, where are the holocrons? The amulets, the trinkets and the Sith spirits? And don't even get me started on Ajunta Pall, them guys at BW didn't even deign to design a unique sprite for the character, rather preferring to make him look like your average Dark Jedi. And he goes on and on about "their secret", what gave them power, which if you take all the story of KotOR into consideration, it isn't really related to Sith-created artifacts, but really to an alien space station capable of sucking the life force of people and spitting an endless fleet. That's good. I never questioned the use of the term Masters. I never questioned the taking of apprentices. That is a fundamental nature of the Jedi Order: their teachings are passed from Master to Apprentice. What I really question is the use of the term Padawan, which doesn't occur on TotJ, and doesn't occur on the next source of SW timeline after KotOR, which is, I believe, Jedi vs. Sith. The usage of the term Padawan is justified by one concept: it is a popular term in the prequels, and to summon a "Star Wars feel" to some, one must make his piece as similar to the movies as possible. As BW and Obsidian did. Like I said, the Jedi and Sith robes in K1 are some of the few unique aspects where design is concerned. But then again its killed because every robe is the same, it's kind of a sodding Jedi uniform, or Sith uniform, for that matter. While what we see in TotJ is every Jedi with a unique design to his robes. Some wear the Jedi armor (as Ulic and Nomi), some do not (as Arca and Vodo). Some don't even wear robes at all (Thon, that may be a unique case, hehe). Thon and Vodo and Arca. Odan-Urr too. They have one thing in common, apart from being powerful Jedi Masters. They are not human. We see a great lot of diversity where species is concerned, in TotJ. A tchuukthai. A krevaaki. An arkanian. A draethos. Then you compare to KotOR. Vrook, Kavar, Atris, Zez-kai Ell, Lonna Vash, Dorak. All human. Then there is the twi'lek Zhar Lestin. That'd be OK (Tott Doneeta was a twi'lek after all) if the only alien Jedi Knights weren't twi'lek. And there is the Yoda - I mean, Vandar! That doesn't even need comment. I'll be damned if the creators wouldn't make him give us all that Yoda-talk, but LA must've said their piece on that. You should actually say in the most ancient human tradition: giving out names. And names to things that are supposed to look fabulous or fearsome, tend to be catchy. The problem would then be: the Nebulon Ranger looks like nothing else but the Nebulon Ranger. The Ebon Hawk looks a bloody lot like an early version of the YT-1300, the Millenium Falcon. Like I said, the very way things are done in TotJ speaks against any existance of a Jedi Council. It is supposed to be an important body (it actually is an important body throughout KotOR). But it is not even mentioned in TotJ. It plays no role in the storyline. No role in the Jedi Order of the time, for what it's worth. But then, all of a sudden it becomes the centerpiece of the Jedi Way. Somone can say it's not in TotJ because it hasn't been conceived at the time. Maybe. Maybe if TotJ was released after Episode I, as K1 did, there would be a council there. I'd hope not: it would make the Order too much like the one we see in the movies. It's not supposed to be: the Order would've changed after 4000 years of fighting Sith: the Sith sure did change in the time, so it'd make much more sense for the Jedi to change as well. But the Jedi we see on KotOR are the Jedi of the movies. They are ruled by a council, they call their apprentices Padawans, they begin training exclusively from the day of their birth, they can't marry, their government centre is the Jedi Temple on Coruscant... That gets specially uninteresting especially if you expect Jedi of the era to be less burdened by the shackles seen in the PT. Because these shackles work very well when the Sith are only two and in secrecy, but are anachronistic to an order 4000 years younger. Out of all this, only one thing is certain: If KotOR had been released before Episode I, it certainly would not have a Council, either. And that's proving my point: the Council is only set in K1 and K2 because of the Prequels. Like I said before, Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon and The Saga of Nomi Sunrider are introductory in nature: it serves to set the main characters of the time: Ulic, Nomi, Arca, Thon, Tott... The events that demand the whole of Jedi attention come by in The Freedon Nadd Uprising and The Dark Lords of the Sith. That would certainly demand the actions of this phantom Jedi Council you say that could possibly exist during Exar Kun's time. But the fact remains: there is no mention of any Council, and saying otherwise is trying to accomodate KotOR's contradiction within the already established canon. Unfortunately, that's what LA is more prone to doing, and that's the problem with the "owners" of SW continuity, instead of worrying about avoiding continuity errors by working together with game creators, they leave them all the freedom, and simply allow the use of anything that doesn't contradict Lucas-set canon, which is to say the films and those of Lucas' favourites, like yoda's species and Darth Plagueis. Maybe you're right, I'm not the man to disagree with you on that point, but there is some sort of character development: Ulic saw the Dark Side was not as simple as he thought. The conclusion of that, however, doesn't come on The Beast Wars, but rather in The Freedon Nadd Uprising, the next story arc. Again, the two series are clearly set apart with the coming of The Freedon Nadd Uprising and The Dark Lords of the Sith. And now you're saying Darth Galactus eating whole planets makes more sense than Sadow's ship destroying stars? Or maybe that the Sith zombie is also more Star Warsy than Force spirits? Or maybe you mean to say that it's a lot more Star Wars-like if the Sith Empire of old was only so powerful as it was because of a Space station they happened to find, a space station that the Sith did not construct, and was the centerpiece of their Empire. That their holocrons, blasters, their hyperdrives, their starships weren't really invented by any of the people in the Republic or some other bodies, but rather created by this godly unheard-of species, the Rakata? That is absurd. Where KotOR tries to be "innovative", they harm the whole Star Wars universe. Where they strive not to be innovative, they spit on TotJ's face. And the fact they mention Kun and Qel-Droma, the destruction of Ossus or the Sith species has no bearing at all to the big picture: the whole KotOR speaks of them as if they were really 40 years old, but as you play the game, you get the feeling all that's just ancient. You don't hear of Nomi, of Vima (wouldn't she be a big time Jedi master at the time of KotOR? She'd be in her prime, 40 years of age). The only solid link the game cares to make with that time is an old Jedi that relays tales that are either incomplete, incompatible or otherwise contradictory with the time he's supposed to have experienced. The comparison does not regarding different media. It regards the setting and feel of Star Wars in both pieces, that are pieces of Star Wars history. The fact the KotOR is a videogame doesn't mean they should build the prequel world with many Sith and a mysterious species that created everything in Star Wars technology. Those things are quite dissociable, and indeed they should be.
  9. Point is, there is no room for consideration. No maybe. No fleet of ships from the KotOR era can match the state-of-the-art starship that is the hammerhead of the one and only tyrannical government to be able to cover most of the galaxy for over twenty years.
  10. Do me a favor. Look at the size of that little ship. A meager 3.1 kilometers... The Executor is 19 kilometers long. That's six times the size, six times the amount of weapon mounts. Probably much more than six times the amount of support craft carried within the Executor's hull. It's out of the question for any starship, even a fleet of starships from the KotOR era to be able to face Vader's little toy plane. The Executor is a mobile space station, designed to be the state of the art in military warships of his time, which has over 4000 years of technological development of advantage over the "Courageous".
  11. You got it all wrong. I've been comparing KotOR to TotJ to show that TotJ is not a copy of the films where design and setting and feel is concerned. I never said KotOR should've been TotJ, or anything close to it. My argument in the beginning was: how to rationally explain a complete design turnover that took place in meager fourty years of galactic time, the result of said turnover being a galaxy extremely reminiscent of the one seen in the films. In other words, stylistically KotOR should resemble TotJ, or, like I said some (too many, actually) posts back, could at least differ from the films. If the design was different, nothing that should make KotOR such a "great" game would be harmed. The only problem is that if it were different from the films, many people wouldn't recognize it as Star Wars, despite its blasters, its lightsabers and Jedi and Sith. They don't seem meaningless to me, for they were the very points that made me dislike KotOR in the first place. A game can be a lot more original than KotOR ever was. The first evidence of this would be looks. Further evidence, such as how people view the galaxy and act on it, and the power structure of the Jedi Order, would be as well. So what's KotOR's idea of originality? Take over the feel and looks of Lucas' films. All in all, I wouldn't desire KotOR to be like TotJ. I would simply like KotOR to pay the due respect to its elder, TotJ. Which it does not, through misquoting and concepts that are incompatible with the era KotOR's supposed to represent. And if TotJ's galaxy seems incompatible to you because of the Prequels, they still got 4000 years of history, that in the end doesn't make it incompatible at all. Look at the Roman Empire and the British empire, both set apart by 1000 years. They're quite different. It's called change. It comes with time, and the longer the time, the greater the change. But KotOR summons Lucas' galaxy, anachronistically, and in a manner incompatible with the previous canon source, TotJ. OK, Star Wars is discontinuous. But that's only true because there are authors like the creators of KotOR. So if they wanted to craft something unique of their own in the first place, why not use the "blind hole" of 3000 years between Exar Kun (4000 BBY) and Darth Bane (1000 BBY)?
  12. Oh, but it's quite the opposite. I was not ignoring what I don't like. I was arguing against it.
  13. Hehe. That's rare. I haven't helped but notice, JC, that while you were too busy acting high and mighty, you failed to present any solid argumentation yourself. Anyways, the fact remains: KotOR and TOR is Star Wars for kids, clearly recognizable as such. I don't give a bloody hell whether you feel otherwise or not. Heh. That's new. What, are you saying people who try to stand up and defend their opinions against the mass tend to get banned on this forum? Or are you comparing me to someone who already got banned? Well, I was never banned from any forums before, especially because I frequent forums where people tend to respect their differences and simply enjoy a little bit of debate, which doesn't seem to be the case around here.
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