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LowLevel

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Posts posted by LowLevel

  1. 2 hours ago, Jake said:

    I think you might be projecting if you’re implying the Curse team effectively censored themselves for mass appeal, when it’s probably just that they didn’t like that stuff and didn’t want it in their game.

     

    Oh no, I am not speculating on "why" the authors did anything. I just pointed out that those topics were not addressed in the game and that their decision resulted in a game that, in my opinion, is welcoming even to those who have not played the previous two games. I never considered "Curse" a "soft reboot," as you called it, but it is a nice way to put it.

    • Like 1
  2. 17 hours ago, Bennyboy said:

    Grumpy Explorer is one possibility

     

    I think that's a great name. Ron has developed more than one engine in the last few years, and he seems to enjoy developing and refining them, so I suggest not mentioning any of his engine names; they change.

     

     

    17 hours ago, Bennyboy said:

    any other suggestions welcomed.

     

    BUTT:

     

    Browse

    Utility

    for

    Terrible

    Toybox

     

    Shamelessly recycled from the name I suggested years ago to Ron for his next engine. And, believe me, "BUTT" would have been a much better choice than "Dinky".

     

     

    16 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    naming things.

     

    That's so true. I still remember the compression algorithm we devised with the Amiga computer nerd group when we were about eighteen years old. The name was "burp": its goal was to ingest bytes and produce as few bytes as possible, with a "burp" to represent the heavy digestion. We never got beyond the name and an audio sample.

     

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1
  3. 5 hours ago, Jake said:

    all the sequels are consciously attempting to deal with the aftermath of 2 in their own ways, with the knowledge that if they ever had attempted to say anything definitive, fans would have rioted and punished them for trying.

     

    I can understand the "fear" of saying something definitive, but I don't think "something definitive" was the only option available to the authors of other games. Telling something meaningful (not definitive) about the more surreal tones and perspectives that fascinated me the most was also an option. These themes were not only related to the ending of MI2:

    • The whole story possibly being the product of the imagination of someone;
    • When in time the stories take place: "Pirate Lingo! It's how everybody talked back then. Come on Guybrush, play along.";
    • Guybrush's parents role.

    I do not doubt that in creating "Curse," for example, the authors thought a lot about these themes. However, in the end the final product is a story that does not address them. Everything happens in-universe: what Guybrush experienced as a kid was the result of the voodoo magic of a demonic pirate. I think that avoiding the topics mentioned above was a smart decision and that keeping everything self-contained in the pirate universe contributed to the success of the game.

     

    And that's why I would also avoid them in a possible sequel, if the main goal is to increase the chance that people will like the story. Many artists would disagree with that "if" because, understandably, they need to feel free when creating something. That's why I gave two answers: what I think was a "commercially sound" solution and what I would like for myself.

    • Like 2
  4. 11 hours ago, Knight Owl said:

    I have a question for everyone: if you were in charge of making the next game, how would you frame it?

     

    Good question. Well, it depends: is the goal to create a game enjoyed by as many people as possible or to create something that I would personally enjoy?


    Personally, I would like the next game to go more down the rabbit hole. I'm not sure if I would use the same "old Guybrush tells a story" device, but I would like to see the darker and more surreal themes explored more, perhaps hinting at themes from MI2 that were never explained and using (again) the "unfinished business" motivation to return to some of the islands shown in MI2. Perhaps an even older Guybrush might be the best character to use as the protagonist and his son might work as a second playable character, framing everything on the father-son rite of passage.


    On the other hand, if the goal is to create something more easily appreciated by people, I would drop any meta features, abandon any attempt to discuss older topics never explained, and simply take advantage of the framing device established in RtMI. Guybrush would tell another story to his son, this time extremely straightforward: "Guybrush gets into trouble and eventually defeats LeChuck". I would also show Guybrush telling a story to Boybrush only at the beginning and the ending of the game.

     

    I believe that after MI2, Ron Gilbert left a hot potato in the hands of other authors who wanted to create a sequel. This hot potato was handled by ignoring whatever Ron had in mind, leading to successful games and stories. RtMI is a little different, because I think it helps to frame any future game in the MI universe without ignoring what Ron did and without creating canon problems: let's pretend it is simply another story told by Guybrush to his son. This is what I would do if the goal is to simplify things and reach as many people as possible.

    • Like 2
  5. I don't really remember how many times I used it, but certainly not more than 10.

     

    I used it at least two or three times while I was a member of LeChuck's crew, not because the puzzles were difficult, but because I am not a fan of that chapter. The small, enclosed environment bored me a bit and I wanted to move on to the next chapter as soon as possible.

     

  6. On 10/1/2022 at 7:52 AM, Gins said:

    Also Delilah is a name, and both Dee and Lila are short for it

     

    I didn't know that! 😯

     

    On 10/1/2022 at 8:28 AM, neoncolor8 said:

    I really like Flambe, didn't do much, but that's his life moto apparently.

     

    True, still at some point he tries to warn Guybrush about the dangers of joining LeChuck when the chest will be opened. Maybe Flambe cared a bit.

     

    23 hours ago, JacquesSparkyTail said:

    beautiful poetry

     

    Yes, that's what I'll remember Gullet for. 😐

     

    22 hours ago, Thrik said:

    The name aside, Lila makes the most sense because…

     

    I agree. I tried to find some connection between the two characters. Even a mention of anchors on Lila's part would have been enough to fuel my hypothesis.

     

    17 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    I really enjoy Judge Planke... although I don't know why. His constant frustration amuses me, I think. The great animation on him helps, too.

     

    The voice acting of that character and the line "Order.... Order!" made me kill myself laughing when I saw it in the Monkey Island Mondays video. In fact, it was my most thunderous laugh in the whole game.

     

    13 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:
    Spoiler

    I felt really sad for her when she met her end by the man she so adored and tried to help.

     

     

    The way LeChuck reacted to any form of affection by Rose or any other crew member (his diary contains a few examples) was both heartbreaking and also the only way LeChuck could react.

     

    1 hour ago, Gins said:

    And the spoilered part is Guybrush's fault 😬

     

    Really? Why?

     

  7. Related questions: which character did you like the most? Was it because he was funny? Was it because he was a mysterious figure? Why did the character intrigue you so much? Do you think there was something about the character that could have been explored more by the writers? Do you think the character really exists or was it just a representation of a cardboard cutout? Who invented liquid soap, and why?

     

    My favorite new character is Lila. She is a somewhat flat character, but she is also knowledgeable, intelligent and resourceful. She is a force of nature capable of turning useless Lorem Ipsum into powerful spells. She is not afraid to fight against LeChuck. Lila is strong and can kill you with one hand while she tags your door with magical graffiti with the other.


    She is also the one who tells my favorite joke in the whole game. Commenting on the irrelevance of the old pirate leaders, she mocks their very raison d'etre saying that they were probably "making up trials for each other". Genius.


    The fact that she is the most knowledgeable character among the new pirate leaders made me think of a possible connection with Dee.

    • Like 3
  8. 1 hour ago, FancyPants said:

    On the same note, why the memento regarding LeChuck secrets is a flower?

     

    I thought about it and could not come up with an acceptable answer.


    Perhaps the flower was related to LeChuck's diary, but it is unlikely that he used a flower as a bookmark, and the diary has no markings to suggest this.


    Since it is a yellow flower, it could be a reference to the yellow flowers used in MI1 or those outside the Governor's Mansion on Melee Island.

     

    ----


    Since I am reading a lot of posts about music, I suggest an experiment. When I first played MI1, I was mesmerized by the total absence of music in some places in Melee. So I suggest you give it a try: keep all the other sounds on, but turn off the music and visit the places in Melee that had no music in MI1, such as low street or the docks. 🙂

     

    It will make you appreciate the ambience sounds as well.

     

    • Like 3
  9. 13 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    On the flip side, who else was ReMI for if not the people who have been wondering about the end of MI2 for decades?

     

    I like to think of the "for whom" theme as "the game was dedicated to us" but not more than that. Unfortunately, I've seen the "for whom" theme exploited by some fans in other social venues to imply the existence of some sort of "moral debt" that developers should feel obligated to repay. That's where I disagree.

     

    13 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    or I guess I mean it's made me want to move on from it.

     

    I find this interesting because I feel the same way, but probably for different reasons than you do. I just got that closure from RtMI that I was looking for, so I no longer feel the need for a new chapter in the story. What I always envisioned as a trilogy has finally been completed. Of course, if more games come along I will still play them, just as I played the games in the franchise that didn't interest me much, but I already feel satisfied with the circle that has been closed for me. That's why moving on and preserving the experience in my heart might be the most natural thing for me to do. 🙂

     

    13 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

    It was a job... maybe a job they enjoyed, and maybe one that they still remember fondly. But it was a career and a creation - it was not a hobby.

     

    Yes, that's something that should always be kept in mind. Creators and fans live a game in very different ways.

     

    There is a funny scene in Galaxy Quest in which the relationship between actors and fans pointing out obscure mismatching details is parodied with excruciating accuracy. 😁

    • Like 1
  10. 1 hour ago, Sadbrush said:

    Were escape rooms a thing back in 1990?

     

    I do not remember escape rooms existing 30 years ago, at least not in their current form, but NightWalker pointed out something that might be similar.

     

    However, despite the references to previous games, the important point to me is that RtMI is definitely a game that has embraced the present, and in 2022 escape rooms exist and may have been an inspiration for the new game.


    I find this statement by Ron particularly enlightening, especially regarding the fact that being trapped in the past can limit creativity:

     

    Quote

    "We wanted this to be a new Monkey Island, not just another Monkey Island," says Gilbert. "At the same time we could not ignore the past and invent everything from scratch: we needed an anchor to make people understand that this is the world they know and love. This is why Mêlée Island is so preponderant in the first part of the adventure, but then very soon we move into completely new areas, with new situations and characters. Because the danger is of being trapped in nostalgia, repeating the same things over and over for the pleasure of the fans. We absolutely didn't want that for our game."

     

    (Source, translated from an interview in Italian)

     

    This is not the only statement regarding the fact that the developers did not want the game to be trapped in the past.

    In April 2022 they stated:

     

    Quote

     

    Ron: "Everything we've done is building a game for the future, not necessarily the past."

    Dave: "It's a new Monkey Island game rather than another Monkey Island game, which is a subtle distinction, but an important one... making it the same but better is always the challenge,"

     

    (Source)

     

    I remember that this sentiment had also come up in other interviews, so I was well prepared for the fact that the authors did not want a game that tried to adhere to past ideas.

     

    In 1990 we did not have fully voiced characters or social movements critical of science-backed health care, but both are common now in 2022 and the game makes use of them. Escape rooms might have been another modern inspiration for the writing.

    • Like 1
  11. 8 hours ago, neoncolor8 said:

    who put the safe there? Stan?

     

    Yes, because it is up to the owner/manager of the pirate-themed escape room (Stan) to prepare the rooms with puzzles, and the preparation includes locking objects in places that must be opened with keys. The escape room is not just a park to be passively observed, but an interactive experience that poses challenges that Stan constantly improves. That's why Guybrush says:

     

    image.png

    ... which also explains why the Voodoo Lady says that she has signed a contract and can't help you to open the safe. She is part of the escape room staff.

     

    And everything fits quite nicely if you take in account something that Ron Gilbert said in 2017 in a Reddit AMA:

     

    image.png

    (Source)

     

    • Like 2
  12. 6 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    Sometimes I think certain things are because we know the games better than they do...

     

    I'm not sure how positively that depicts the psyche of super-knowledgeable fans 😛 but recently I read a tweet by Dave Grossman and I considered it a good example on how things evolve in non-fan realities:

     

    image.png

     

     

    • Like 2
  13. 7 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

    Are people really that bothered by a lack of direct confrontation with LeChuck?

     

    Based on what I'm reading around, some are. I think that some players were expecting a more "standard" story, less grounded into meta narrative.

     

    5 hours ago, demone said:

    Guybrush moved on in his life and past his battles with LeChuck and obsession with the Secret to start a family

     

    I really enjoyed reading your comments, but I think that whether or not Guybrush has moved on with the Secret is actually something for the player to decide, not something that the story presents as the only or main outcome.


    In one of the endings, Guybrush has kept the key to the chest and is watching it. This could imply many things, including that he will never stop thinking about it. I'm biased on this point though, because that's the kind of ending that I like more.

     

    53 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

    I cannot make this scene work in my head canon now...

     

    The couple seen at the beginning of RtMI is coincidentally identical to Guybrush's parents. If we accept this fact, one might revamp my theory that Boybrush and his friend were pretending that the couple were their parents because they were still reenacting Guybrush's story, which included him and his brother emerging from the underground tunnels into the park. 😛

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1
  14. 41 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

    In nearly every game, stuff gets cut... so if this was the biggest chunk to get cut from this game, then it must be because they considered it the least valuable part of the game.

     

    I agree, but this also applies to content that has been eventually added to games, such as the arcade room in Thimbleweed Park. It made sense to cut it because it was not a key feature and the game works perfectly well without it, but that does not imply that the game was not improved when the room and its associated puzzles were added.

  15. 56 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

    I'd just argue that... looked at on that level the game isn't doing a LOT different to MI2.

     

    I am not sure that a comparison with what MI2 did would help me better understand why some people did not like the lack of an explicit confrontation with LeChuck in RtMI.


    MI2 was made and played by many of us decades ago, and our taste in writing or acceptance of certain writing styles may have changed over time. Having accepted (or even appreciated) the non-resolution in MI2 decades ago would not explain to me why some people did not like the lack of direct comparison with LeChuck in RtMI today.


    I also think that, if direct confrontation was what some felt was lacking in RtMI, at least MI2 gives Guybrush a chance to dismember LeChuck and leave him on the ground, which clearly and very explicitly defined LeChuck as the loser.

     

    1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

    but I don't see the argument that what they do here isn't Monkey Islandy enough.

     

    If one assumes that the definition of what makes a game a "Monkey Island game" is entirely subjective, one can find some reason in that argument as well. For example, my very narrow definition makes me classify many games in the franchise as "mostly unrelated to the original story", but that's just me. 😛

     

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