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Grand theft auto 4 (ultimate experience?)


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no i don't know anything about number 4 which will come after the GTA : (desert city what is called) and will be revolution, as Rockstar sais :)

 

I am playing the last days Grand Theft Auto : Vice City..

Yep i finally bought it :p

 

And seeing the differences from GTA3 is remarkable. There is a story. Real story...not the A+ Mafia plot but a decent one for such a game and for the first attemt.

Also the chars finally have some souls, they aren't just pixels :D who send you to jombs. I mean just the talk with the taxi misses can make you laugh...

 

Also let's not forget the new freedom. You can fly and go ANYWHERE in the city. It is remarkable to have your mp3s in the radio and seeing the sunset up above and the scyscrapters on the horizon *shivers*. And also the thing of owing house, businesses. At last you can really become the owner of the city. In GTA3 you were're supposed to be one of the first criminals and still you had some garages :rolleyes:

 

What am i going e? what for all this rave? If Rockstar has managed getting the quality and the gameplay at such a high point only in one game, and let's forget, not putting many many things more. Imagine what we will see in the number 4 :cool:

 

So, let the drooling begin....;)

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GTA4 (or 5, depending on how you look at it) is rumored to be called Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. That's all that's known, basically.

 

I wouldn't go so far as calling GTA3/Vice the "ultimate experience" or anything like that. But they're excellent games, and I think they present a direction for many devs to follow. The game also has a TON of style to boot (especially Vice).

 

I also like how Vice has you in a more proactive role. You're not just running errands for everyone all the time. It feels like you're actually building towards something. The story is quite nice. There were a couple of moments where it really felt like a thrill ride. (The helicopter mission with Vance was one of them for me personally.)

 

There's only one problem I have with the game, and that's the story structure. I went through the game following the story missions pretty closely, and not doing any taxi missions or other 'sidequests' at the same time. So you get a really condensed part where there's lots of story going on, lots of phone calls, etc. That all stops when you finish the mission that lets you buy assets, after which the pacing goes all wrong. You don't get anymore phone calls or story bits--you're just working on your assets for a very very long time, and you only have one or two story missions left at the end. It's kinda out of balance.

 

What I'd like to see in future GTA's:

* Interactive cutscenes. A lot of GTA's experience is still watching pre-scripted movie clips. I'd love to see some adventure game and/or Half-Life 2 influence creep in. Interactive dialog trees and the ability to move around and interact with the environment during a cutscene would be awesome.

* A small hint of sim/strategy. I think the concept of running a criminal network could be taken a little further. For example, by giving you the option who to recruit and who to kill, or by putting a tiny bit of simcity-style management into the assets. I'm just talking about a really subtle influence, incorporated into the action/adventure gameplay. I'd love to have some kind of main hideout from which I could do business.

* MUCH more different models for pedestrians please! It's the only thing that disrupts the suspension of disbelief. It kind of sucks seeing a gang of 10 people, all looking exactly the same :)

 

Don't get me wrong though, I think GTA kicks ass. 'San Andreas' will probably be another evolution of the basic GTA3 concept, but hopefully the next generation of games after that will really set new standards again. (The first bit is purely based on educated guess, by the way.)

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im not a big fan of the series. its a lil depressing that the best selling game in the last while, and supposedly one of the best made has to include wanton violence and destruction as a usp, with no more motivation than the lining of your own pockets.

 

while i can appreciate some of the gameplay advances, they are marginal since the original two games, which were top down, so the innovation as far as i can see is the introduction of the third dimension. the original games were not innovative by any means, borrowing heavily from the likes of Syndicate and the generic shoot and drive games that populated some of the early consoles.

 

what you get in gta3 et al is effectively a sandbox, with a narrative thread loosely snagged through it. true innovation is to have generic actions impact on upon the overall narrative, as opposed to vice versa.

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I'm sick and tired of everyone complaining about crime and violence in GTA. Cut it out. Unless it's about 10 year olds playing the game, stop this crap. Please. It's almost becoming a sin to enjoy GTA. Isn't there a place in the market for mature games? Just like Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs are perfectly valid movies?

 

It's all just a fantasy.

 

Furthermore, you (and many others) suggest a causal relationship between violence and strong sales. There have been games far more violent and potentially offensive than GTA that were complete and utter failures. Also, if you look at the sales charts they're completely dominated by family oriented games such as The Sims, Pokemon, Tomb Raider, FIFA, Lord of the Rings, Championship Manager, etc.

 

Sorry for being so agitated but I feel this needs to be said.

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my point is exactly that parents would go in and buy this game for their children, because of the stigma of computer games, consoles in particular being for children. im not one for sanitizing games, far from it, but for appropriate apportioning of the market. you wouldnt take a child to see full metal jacket, you wouldnt take them to scarface - ergo, why would you buy them gta vice city?

 

there is no correlation between adults playing videogames and realworld violence, as by the time were adults, were as screwed up [or not] as we're going to be. children are different, and impressionable. the videogames market may have the sims, championship manager, mario et al, but the ps2 has the getaway and gta as two lead and critical titles. the pc will have doom3 and half-life2 as two lead titles in the next 18 months. violence isnt wrong, it just needs to be monitored.

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I agree. Violent games should not be allowed to have a bad influence on kids.

 

However, I don't see reason for concern over GTA. In the context of this discussion, any "concerned parents" have to be lazy because they wouldn't have to be concerned if they did their job well.

 

Suppose I'm a parent. I see a game called "grand theft auto", which hints at criminal activity in this game. On the back of the box it says "Welcome to Vice City, a huge urban sprawl stretching from the beach to the swamps and the glitz to the ghetto, a town brimming with delights and degradation." I see a three pictures of a Maffia-type guy holding a gun, and a picture of a guy holding a samurai sword. On the side of the box I find a big fat "M for Mature".

 

Is this something I'll buy for Little Jimmy? (Or, would I allow him to keep it if I found it in his games collection?)

 

The answer is no, and it's not like there's a plentora of more suitable games out there. If the answer for some parents is yes, they're just as stupid as parents taking their kids to see Scarface. It doesn't take much to figure out what kind of movie Scarface is either.

 

We agree on principle, but I'm annoyed by how big a deal people make GTA out to be. :)

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violence isnt wrong, it just needs to be monitored. [/b]

 

"I'm sorry sir, I stabbed you five times more than the evisceration limit allows, next time I'll try to monitor my mayhem."

 

:D

 

I subsequently agree that kids should be shielded from violence during the impressionable years until they are of an age to make a decision for themseves; this age should be dictated by the parents who best know the mental maturity of their offspring and not any legal limit.

 

The entire problem is we have so many parents running around who are still mentally kids, thus creating situations where games like GTA get a lot of bad press because Jimmy had it in his closet collection and is sharing his mission details with all his friends. His parents are so checked-out they wouldn't even recognize the interior of his room.

 

GTA is hella fun - not for kids, not for those offended by violence; but it shouldn't be singled out for ridicule. 91/2 weeks was about as much an erotic paradigm for movies as GTA is a standard for future video-game violence; which is to say not at all.

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by and large i agree, the blame and responsibility is with the parents, but it is also the part of the retailer to ensure that games of a certain certificate are not sold to minors, and that this is more rigidly enforced. i remember years ago one particular hardass wouldnt sell me full throttle, because it had 15s certificate on it. the laws are there for a reason, to protect kids.

 

gta gets a hard time, and the getaway as well, because it is a real world setting. no one minds if youre commiting genocide against an alien race, but slaughtering "real" people in fun and interesting ways has more immediate connotations. for the junior as well, its easier to differentiate fantasy from reality, if you're killing an extra from star wars.

 

gta presents crime as glamourous, especially vice city. it may be tongue in cheek, but this is a fact i feel often lost on the younger gamer. its not only in games, of course, with film and tv portraying matters in a similar light.

 

my point is really that the violence in gta is immediate, and while not as gory as some of the others, soldier of fortune for instance, it still represents a direction in the media that im against. compare the floundering fortunes of nintendo, traditionally seen as the childs company, with the more mature, marketed darker, ps2. edge ran an article on this in their equip ps2 edition as well. i just feel that for a game so revered for its advances, why morality is not one of them - deus ex re-inforced this idea, that has been present in good rpgs, ultima VII, baldur's gate, for years - responsibility for your actions.

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this age should be dictated by the parents who best know the mental maturity of their offspring and not any legal limit.

 

close to my thoughts.

 

I mean. Of course there should be a quiet good warning towards games with violence and sex....it's not something a 10 year old can play, because it is still in his/her growing up period and some over-bloody screenies can "help" a problem he has...

 

The problem is that not all children are the same. I mean, a child 13-14 can be far more grown than a 17...

I mean it'smostly to the child's "age" of mind and not of body. Mostly parents (if they are clever and not idiots "you must not play those thinks") must know if their child can understand the difference betwwen realities...I don't beleive graphic violence or grafic erotism is so bad , only for those with previous serious problems.

(a thought) :)

 

(it's disgusting-funny to shoot people on the head

*splash*...no head :eek: )

 

------------------------------------------

 

GTA4 (or 5, depending on how you look at it) is rumored to be called Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. That's all that's known, basically.

 

actually i meant

which will come after the GTA : (desert city what is called)
<-----San adreas

and Number 4 is not San Adreas, it is just the next ;) and i just made the thought. "If they made such a great jump from 3 to vice city, what will we see in 4?" :)

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Originally posted by Aranolorion

by and large i agree, the blame and responsibility is with the parents, but it is also the part of the retailer to ensure that games of a certain certificate are not sold to minors, and that this is more rigidly enforced. i remember years ago one particular hardass wouldnt sell me full throttle, because it had 15s certificate on it. the laws are there for a reason, to protect kids.

 

gta gets a hard time, and the getaway as well, because it is a real world setting. no one minds if youre commiting genocide against an alien race, but slaughtering "real" people in fun and interesting ways has more immediate connotations. for the junior as well, its easier to differentiate fantasy from reality, if you're killing an extra from star wars.

 

gta presents crime as glamourous, especially vice city. it may be tongue in cheek, but this is a fact i feel often lost on the younger gamer. its not only in games, of course, with film and tv portraying matters in a similar light.

 

my point is really that the violence in gta is immediate, and while not as gory as some of the others, soldier of fortune for instance, it still represents a direction in the media that im against. compare the floundering fortunes of nintendo, traditionally seen as the childs company, with the more mature, marketed darker, ps2. edge ran an article on this in their equip ps2 edition as well. i just feel that for a game so revered for its advances, why morality is not one of them - deus ex re-inforced this idea, that has been present in good rpgs, ultima VII, baldur's gate, for years - responsibility for your actions.

 

Amen, and it bears repeating.

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Originally posted by Aranolorion

by and large i agree, the blame and responsibility is with the parents, but it is also the part of the retailer to ensure that games of a certain certificate are not sold to minors, and that this is more rigidly enforced.

 

That's just ridiculous. You can't expect retailers to raise your kids for you. Believe it or not, there ARE ways to monitor what your child buys. One way would be to not give him money, and make sure you approve all purchases. Retail guidelines should never be a substitute for parenting ability.

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Argh: http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/gma/US/GMA030905Grand_theft_murders.html

 

You have no idea how much that pisses me off.

 

"The industry needs to cough up money so victims and their families can be compensated for their pain," Thompson said. "The shareholders need to know what their games are doing to kids and their families. They need to stop pushing adult rated products to kids. These products are deadly."

 

These products are deadly? I've never heard of anyone killing someone with a CD-ROM disc. Though I read about people shooting the crap out of each other every day with guns that are widely and openly available. What kind of a f*^$$ up thing is that?

 

Is Take 2 actively marketing the game to kids? Absolutely not. These lawsuits are complete BS.

 

It's also a crap article because no one bothered to ask the industry, or any experts, for their opinion. A perfect example of crummy journalism. :mad:

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hmm.. all GTA games have been given an BBFC 18 rating here, which means its a criminal offense to supply or buy the games for people under that age. So I dont see why people always write studies on games like GTA's effect on children when they are legally not allowed to play them.

 

One thing I do find amusing though is how RPG's can get away with swearing, death, violence and adult themes because they have "cute" graphics and the people responsible for the age ratings (ELSPA) are too lazy to play past the first ten minutes!!

 

Or how the BBFC ratings only go on games where the publisher requests this!! (thankfully companies are responsible enough to make sure the games get the certificates - although this sometimes backfires like Sqauresoft who had Parasite Eve banned or SCi who had to fight a massive legal challenge with Carmageddon 1+2).

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Teens Say Video Game Inspired Them in Deadly Highway Shooting

 

yep, always blame others for your faults...

 

these people are surely brain-damaged

 

The boys told police they did not mean to hit people

when they took shotguns to Interstate 40, near their Newport, Tenn., home, and opened fire on vehicles

 

doesn't THAT show these people have surely serious phycical problems....:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Egarthen

That's just ridiculous. You can't expect retailers to raise your kids for you. Believe it or not, there ARE ways to monitor what your child buys. One way would be to not give him money, and make sure you approve all purchases. Retail guidelines should never be a substitute for parenting ability.

 

Retailing guidlines arent a substitute, nor did I intend them to be. My point was that they should be an aid to parents. parents and the media associate games by and large with children, which is why the rpgs feisar referenced get away with so much. Similarly, gtas cover art was cartoons, another stereotypically childish area.

 

the lawsuits are rubbish by and large, as gaming will never be the single contributing factor to real world violence. However like film and other forms of art, they need to be monitored. Taste is a boundary that should be maintained, indeed in the pursuit of art, as opposed to its prevention.

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Originally posted by Marek

These products are deadly? I've never heard of anyone killing someone with a CD-ROM disc. Though I read about people shooting the crap out of each other every day with guns that are widely and openly available. What kind of a f*^$$ up thing is that?

Take two Bowling for Columbines and call me in the morning.

 

quiffmeister

Retailing guidlines arent a substitute, nor did I intend them to be. My point was that they should be an aid to parents.

Retailing guidelines are in place, in the form of the ESRB. These game ratings, like moving ratings, are an industry enforced, but not legally binding, system. My only point of info is the US, but for the time being, our constitution protects against government censorship by age of anything that a judge deems "expression." Numerous attempts have been made, though.

 

parents and the media associate games by and large with children, which is why the rpgs feisar referenced get away with so much.

No argument here.

 

Similarly, gtas cover art was cartoons, another stereotypically childish area.

B0000696CZ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

And most comic books are targeting children, too, since they're mostly done in line art.

 

*sigh* Yes, parents will actually have to examine the *content* of the cover, in addition to the style of drawing, and the Mature rating. I can't see how this is marketing towards kids -- while most of them will appreciate the guns, ladies, and explosions, they're not going to think much of the 80s fashion & color and other stereotypes.

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Originally posted by twifkak

And most comic books are targeting children, too, since they're mostly done in line art.

 

...i am sorry to inform you, but most comic books are for adults ;) (only the unknowers claim that sentence)

 

and i love the gta cover and the drawn technique. It gives it a wonderful feeling :)

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Regarding soccer moms, judges, legislations, the media, the games industry, and videogames:

 

"It requires ages to destroy a popular opinion." - Voltaire

 

"With the passing of each day it is continuously revealed that most people are undeniably and profoundly stupid." - Trep

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Retailers and parents are both guilty. The parents for buying the game for their kids regardless of the age restrictions and it's content, and the retailers because they don't really bother with informing parents, and often disregard the age restrictions and sell the software to underage kids.

 

I've seen it happen so often. I remember the rush when GTA:VC was published... two kids in front of me, both with copies of GTA:VC. And both managed to buy the game. Later on, the news over here had a story on the violence in games, and pointed specifically to GTA:VC, so the retailers were forced to put stickers on the games. But as time has passed, retailers are starting to disregard the age of the consumers and the stickers again...

 

It's goes in a circle.

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twifkak, my point is the game ratings should be legally binding, like the film ratings are here. yes i agree parents are lazy and that most comics are aimed at adults, see transmetropolitan and v for vendetta, but parents still associate them with children. basically my point is, if the parents are too half-assed to mind their children with the media, then there should be safeguards to ensure the media cannot get the blame.

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OK. Sorry for arguing things you agree with. :)

 

In any case,

These game ratings, like moving ratings, are an industry enforced, but not legally binding, system.*

This must not be the case for your pad. *shrug*

 

Stupid international differences. Always confusing everything.

 

*IANAL, but I'm pretty sure of that.

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