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Is the jawa model bugged? (Raven says "no")


Tarus
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Is it just me or is this model messed up? More and more people are using jawas and I really dislike it. Seems like when fighting jawas more of my shots go through their robes without striking for damage. Im not sure if its just me or due to the stretched nature of the model that players aren't suppose to have.

 

When fighting 'normal' people, I always see my saber going through them and getting blocked but with the jawa I actually see my stabs and, sometimes, slashes passing through without anything. It is really getting on my nerves.

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Yes, the Jawa model is bugged. I've been told not to let people use the Jawa model at the JK3Files server. I'm guessing that there must be a connection with the model being messed up and there being no icons, team colors, or multiplayer taunt for the Jawa made by Raven.

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No offense but I think you're dead wrong.

 

The model may have goofy robes but the hit detection is the same.

 

Why does that JK3servers server ban the Jawa model? I bet you anything they don't ban for the other 12 "hidden skins" which also have no portrait pic, team colors or multiplayer taunt.

 

Hypocrisy.

 

The fact is, Raven removed the exploit skins already (the "torso only" models). The Jawa and all the others were left in.

 

They aren't cheats and they are fair game. Being the Jawa grants you no advantages at all (except around me because I get sad when I hear the plaintive cry of a dying Jawa.. makes me sad.. sniff, ahem! where was I?).

 

 

Jawa skin = NOT an exploit (put in on purpose rather) = NOT a bug = Wasn't removed in Patch, therefore LEGIT.

 

 

Now if the Jawa was actually little say, THEN it might be a problem, but he's sized according to the same as the other models.

Banning for Jawa skin = Stupid, Pointless & Paranoid

 

 

Besides, I don't think I've ever lost to somebody using the skin EVER, except once (and it was only a few duels) when I first got the game and wasn't very good. ; )

 

 

PS: No offense intended for the JK3files server, peeps, but I think they're just being paranoid. Then again, isn't JK3files part of JK2files? And isn't this the server that Unnamed is always bragging about getting banned from all the time? ; P

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Yeah I was in an FFA once and there were several people using the Jawa skin. They all banded together and it ended up being an unofficial TFFA for a while, Jawas against all other players. Everybody teamed up against the Jawas and the Jawas of course stuck together, it was soo funny. Best fun I had in a long time.

 

And I love the sound of a Jawa dying btw. (At least in this game)

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Yes sad.

The problems occur with all models due to the shaky physics (that were shaky in JK2 and worse here, but in neither case has raven bothered to fix them). The jawa model is exactly the same as the others, providing you're not playing some sort of model class game.

There is a game where small models are harder to hit, but in return have less force powers/fewer guns etc. Bigger models are easier to hit but get more firepower etc. This mode was basically crap so I've not seen any servers running it.

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I'm no code monkey, but from what I understand hit detection is based on the Kyle model, regardless of whatever skin/model you use in multiplayer.

 

So yes, since the Jawa isn't quite as svelte as Kyle, there's bound to be areas of his body that don't respond to a blaster shot or saber slash. The same could be said of that tub of lard, Greelo or even Tavion and her feminine protuberances.

 

No offense to the gang at the JK3Files server, but frankly I think restricting players from using the Jawa model due to perceived balance issues is ridiculous.

 

Also, I wouldn't read a whole lot into the Jawa model not having icons, team skins, etc. If you take a look at the "hazardtrooper" for example, that model DOES have team colors but ISN'T compatible with multiplayer. Go figure, Raven ain't perfect.

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hahaha its their sound, man, a jawa taunting is hilarious.

 

I dunno though, ive heard that the damage model for the jawa is different (i.e they take less damage) but thats just what ive heard, im not sure how to check on that or anything. (haha hey my 100th post, cool)

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What is with so many peoples' facination with the Jawa model?

It's the hooded robes... there aren't any cool ingame models where the Jedi are wearing hooded robes. If Raven were to release ONE official Jedi model that had a set of robes with a hood, then we'd probably see everybody using it as well.

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Originally posted by Strideur

My Jawa has the same taunts as everyone else :confused:

Yes, you are confused indeed. All most all the multiplayer characters have missing sounds thanks to some of the morons at Raven. I have made a mod that fixes this, among other things.

 

I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR INSULTING MY SERVER, Kurgan. You know ShroomDuck? The famous TMBJ mapper? He has determined that the Jawa model is bugged, and he is no paranoid fool. Therefore, we are not allowing a bugged model on our server so that there are no unfair advantages. And Kurgan, you just mayed an extremely stupid statement, saying that we would ban other skins that are direct reskins of the models WITH icons. Don't be stupid. I use the Stormtrooper officer skin, which is one of those console activated skins. Kurgan, just because a server has the same rules as 90% of the other servers, does not mean they are a bunch of paranoid, stupid fools. THAT is why unnamed gets banned from there, because people like him make it their goal in life to make the lives of people in other servers MISREABLE. BTW, unnamed has been banned from THESE FORUMS, so using him as an example to back you up was not a good idea.

 

And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?

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Not to pee anyone off here but i use the jawa and play against others with it and found it to have no more problems over the other models, if i duel someone with the jawa skin i find it no difficult to cut it down to size than any other model unless theres a better skilled player controlling it. if the fact there are no MP icons bot files team colours ect then all other hidden skins should not be used either as if there where intended for MP use then they would be in the character selection screen, i consider all *HIDDEN* MP skins that can be used as a bonus extra or easter eggs, could it be the jawa skin is for FFA or DUEL only and not for team games. If i put these rules into the duel server i run from time to time i would have to ban the ST officer skin too. I have looked over the jawa skin and determined that it gives no more or less of an advantage than any other MP usable skin

 

Also i'm not sure you shold be calling the guys at raven morons, moron. Yes there have been mistakes and errors with the game and they are trying there best within the ground rules layed down to them by LA and Activision to make things better. If you fell you can do better why not patch it yourself or better still apply for a job at raven?

 

And as for someone confused as their jawa has same taunts as other MP skins well you being insulting to someone right there since i use the jawa and all the taunts are unique and sound like a jawa.

 

Strideur you may want to post some more info on the jawa problem as it shouldn't sound like any other character on the server, it could be that if the server isn't using it but you are then you see a jawa but everyone else may see a defualt model E.G. kyle and that may be why you hear normal voice taunts.

 

Peace too all, thats my 2p's worth

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I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR INSULTING MY SERVER, Kurgan. You know ShroomDuck? The famous TMBJ mapper? He has determined that the Jawa model is bugged, and he is no paranoid fool.

 

Sorry, but it would be nice to see some hard evidence. The burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Jawa model is "bugged" (moreso than any other in-game usable model), since you're the one's claming it is and enforcing bans on people who use it.

 

One third party mapper's opinion doesn't hold that much weight (hearsay), after all he could simply be mistaken or being misquoted. It would be nice if Raven would confirm this one way or the other of course, since they would know more than any of us.

 

Therefore, we are not allowing a bugged model on our server so that there are no unfair advantages.

 

All I'm saying is I've had tons of people use the Jawa model on my server and used it myself and I have not witnessed any of these so-called "advantages" you speak of. So why should I believe you? Show me something in the coding or a statement from Raven and you'll have convinced me.

 

And Kurgan, you just mayed an extremely stupid statement, saying that we would ban other skins that are direct reskins of the models WITH icons.

 

All I'm saying is that saying that the skin lacks team colors and a player portrait icon and its own taunt are not reasons why it's "bugged" or an exploit, because 12 other skins have the same attributes.

 

Using your logic it would seem necessary to ban those other models as well since they conform to the criteria you provided. The Jawa model uses the same animations and is the same height as the other models after all (they're all based on the Kyle model).

 

I think because the Jawa model LOOKS different and is so popular people are just assuming something bad about it for which they have no proof.

 

A few of the hidden skins actually have portrait icons (the two Imp officers from JK2 and the ST officer) but not team colors. So are they semi-exploits?

 

Raven knew about the Jawa skin. They removed a ton of exploits with the patch. If the Jawa skin was an exploit, why didn't they remove it or make it only accessible with cheats?

 

Don't be stupid. I use the Stormtrooper officer skin, which is one of those console activated skins. Kurgan, just because a server has the same rules as 90% of the other servers, does not mean they are a bunch of paranoid, stupid fools.

 

So you're saying 90% of servers ban for the Jawa skin? This is news to me. I didn't say the people were stupid, only their actions. And by their actions they certainly sound paranoid. It would be like if somebody started banning for using the purple saber, because they heard some mapper say it did more damage than the other colors.

 

Then again, that doesn't say anything really. If 90% of servers enforced the "sabers off = peace" and "bow before duels" rules, I can still say those are stupid rules. As an admin I make my own rules, which is my right, I don't have to follow any made up consensus. And other admins can feel free to agree with me. I see nothing wrong with the Jawa skin and I allow it along with all other skins that come with the game.

 

As with my example of the "sabers off = peace" and "bow before duels" rules, the trouble with those is that many assume that those rules should be universal and try to enforce that rule on everyone, forcing their interpretation of the game down everyone else's throats. There is nothing in the game that says those rules should be enforced, indicating their player made-up origin. Likewise I think the "ban people for using Jawa skin" rule seems also to be made up and carries with it the same false-universality enforcement bias.

 

THAT is why unnamed gets banned from there, because people like him make it their goal in life to make the lives of people in other servers MISREABLE.

 

I can't say I know his innermost feelings, but in a way I think he has a point. Some admins are way too uptight and get way too excited about people not strictly adhering to a long laundry list of rules. These are the guys who use their admin mods to "enforce conformity" and stuff.

 

Sure, nobody likes a jerk, and if he's being one on purpose, I can't blame him for getting banned. But still, I think I agree with his attitude that some admins need to lighten up.

 

Now if you're banning him for using the Jawa skin, I rest my case.

; )

 

BTW, unnamed has been banned from THESE FORUMS, so using him as an example to back you up was not a good idea.

 

Yeah and in fact *I* was the one who banned him! And *I* was also the one who UNbanned him later after he'd served his time. Your point?

 

If he was still breaking the rules he'd be gone!

 

And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?

 

The following skins are only accessible through the console (the same as the Jawa, jedi/j2, stormtrooper/officer, imperial/officer and imperial/commander), have no team skins, and no "proper sounds" (use sounds from other models):

 

reborn_twin/boss

tavion_new/possessed

cultist/brown

human_merc/key_carrier

human_merc/racto

jedi/master

prisoner/elder

prison/elder2

prisoner/merchant

trandoshan/sp

weequay/sp

reborn/boss

 

The jedi/j2, stormtrooper/officer, imperial/officer and imperial/commander have the same problems as the above except they have portraits (note that their portraits are drawn in a different style than the others... a torso shot rather than a face shot).

 

Note that they don't have bots either, but you can easily make bots for them or even simply assign bot profiles to them using the other bots by editing one text file.

 

The "team colors" skins can be used in FFA and other non team games too, incidentally, and they have no bot support (except in team games). They also don't have unique taunts (they use the same taunts as their non team colored verisons) but they have portrait icons.

 

Did you know that Lando has no bot support? Chewbacca uses Luke's bot file. Does that mean they are exploits or "bugged" too?

 

Most of the JA skins that were also in JK2 lack their proper taunts. Note how most of them say a generic "take that!" instead of the taunts they had in JK2. So what does that prove?

 

All I'm saying is that the logic of your argument just doesn't hold together.

 

So far you've made some accusations (that it makes you harder to hit or something) which of course others have said are problems with ALL models and not just the Jawa and you've used the appeal to popularity implying that "90%" of servers (presumably) also ban it and appeal to authority with a mapper who says its an exploit.

 

No offense, but I'd like to see some harder evidence...

 

 

PS: It is true that without team colors these "hidden" skins look out of place in team games. However, you can still tell what team a person is on quite simply. By default the game is setup so that members of your own team will have same color team beacons over their heads (Rebels or Imperials). Additionally, by looking at your teammates you can see their names in Green (allies) or Enemies (red). These options may be off on your server, but they are client side so toggling them on means never being fooled.

 

Additionally on your radar you can see your teammates as green "arrow" shapes, so if a Jawa is nearby and he shows up as green, he's on your team, if not, blast him!

 

Force Seeing can reveal who is on your team. Players will glow different colors to differentiate who they are, regardless of what model they are using. Blue glow = Blue team. Red glow = red team.

 

Finally, putting your crosshair over a character will tell you if they are friend or foe (again assuming you didn't turn this identify target crosshair option OFF in the setup menu). Green crosshair = ally. Red crosshair = enemy.

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Does no one ever read my posts?

 

I believe I proposed a very reasonable explanation for discrepancies in model hit detection, based on conversations with respected coders/modders (not mapping gurus).

 

It's my understanding that in JK2, hit detection (whether or not an attack on another player was registered as a "hit" or "miss"), was solely based on the most primitive LOD (level of detail) variation of the Kyle model. In other words, regardless of whatever model/skin you chose for your character in multiplayer, the game essentially "saw" you as Kyle. This potentially could work for or against a player, depending on what model/skin they chose.

 

For example, take any one of the various "BattleDroid" custom models available to the community. By design, these models have thinner arms and legs than Kyle. To the game's engine however, it doesn't matter. An attack that visually should appear as a "miss" against one of the Droid's skinny limbs may still very well register as a "hit" - simply because the game is calculating collision universally based on the Kyle model.

 

The same applies to the aforementioned "Greelo" model. His fat belly is considerably larger than Kyle's torso. As such, a strike at Greelo's tummy may very well NOT register as a "hit" - again, simply because the game is calculating collision based on the Kyle model.

 

Is this concept so radically complex it's unfathomable? Do I need to illustrate with crayons and finger paints? Am I using too many big words? Do I have to bungle my posts with insults, careless spelling, grammar and punctuation to be heard/understood?

 

Certainly it's plausible that Raven abandoned this system for Jedi Academy. That said, I think it's highly unlikely they went out of their way to create a separate hit-detection scheme solely for the Jawa model - specifically one that gives a player such an advantage that he/she is next to impossible to hit.

 

Given that Raven did made a point to remove exploitable models/skins from MP play in the latest patch (as Kurgan pointed out), I think it's ridiculous to assert that they simply overlooked this one.

 

If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky. ;)

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Originally posted by Akshara

It's the hooded robes... there aren't any cool ingame models where the Jedi are wearing hooded robes. If Raven were to release ONE official Jedi model that had a set of robes with a hood, then we'd probably see everybody using it as well.

So using the Jawa model makes people feel like a Jedi? Wierd.

 

Originally posted by TK8252MJL

thanks to some of the morons at Raven.

:rolleyes:

 

Originally posted by TK8252MJL

He has determined that the Jawa model is bugged

What is the bug?

 

Originally posted by TK8252MJL

And Kurgan, why would the Jawa not have been given icons, team colors, a bot, and proper sounds if there was not something wrong with it?

There are lots of models that don't have icons, team colours, and sounds. Are they all bugged too because they don't have these things?

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

So you're saying 90% of servers ban for the Jawa skin? This is news to me.

Indeed. Jawas appear to be everywhere online.

 

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit

If you want speculation as to why the Jawa by default has no icons or team skins, perhaps the folks at Raven merely felt that a six-foot-tall Jawa looked dorky.

And they'd be right :)
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