Enemies Lack Character?

[|GG|Carl]

Tavion, Rosh and Alora are all too easy.

 

'nuff said

[Pedro The Hutt]

On the Sith thing , Desann never really was a Sith, he was plainly a Jedi seduced by the dark side, a Dark Jedi, as they were simply called before the Episode I days, to be a sith you need to know the teachings and philosophies of the Sith and also be able to read their own style of hieroglyphs, if not taught in the ways of the Sith but seduced by the dark side, you are plainly a fallen/dark jedi.

 

But on the idea,I quite like it, having a group of decently trained Dark Jedi team up and combine their strenghts with their apprentice(s ) as well, and perhaps contract every scumbag in the galaxy worth his salt rather than the imperial remnant since they seem to foul up time and time again, but hey, a original trilogy era, or not too long after it game is not complete without a stormtrooper in it. ^.^ You lose part of the Star Wars feel if you don't throw in stormtroopers.

 

Anyways, on the note of the cultists and reborn not having any personality, well I can live with that, for all we know an imperial general provided Desann/Tavion (depending if it's JO or JA) with a load of stormtroopers to infuse them with the Force, and we all know how much personality Stormtroopers have, so personally I'm fine with that. ^.^

[/end rant]

[Doug Thompson]

Tavion was tougher in Outcast, and more interesting.

 

I, too, ploughed through the game for the first time on Padawan.

 

(Waits for snickering to die down.)

 

I thought I was just incredibly lucky with both Tavion and Ragnos, or "Ragnovion," as it's called on another forum. Then I went through again, and discovered that it wasn't just incredible luck. At least on Jedi level, the "bosses" are not all that difficult.

[StormHammer]

I played the whole game through on Jedi Knight difficulty the first time through it - and I played light side. It was challenging in parts, and I had some good saber fights with the better cultists (dual sabers and Saberstaff mainly), and I fought with Tavion longer than Alora. But on the whole, the game was too easy for that setting. I breezed through some of the levels.

 

I'm now replaying the whole game, same difficulty level, but with all Dark Side powers...and it's even easier. Full lightning, full grip and second level drain are just devastating in the tiered missions. The fight with Alora on Hoth took less than a minute...

 

I'm going to have to go back to play Light Side on Jedi Master difficulty once I've finished it this time.

[Peregrine]

I played through on the hardest setting, Jedi Master, two times. First with Dark Side powers and duel sabers, then with Light Side powers and a saber staff. I only died a few times, mostly from missing a jump and a couple times in the final boss fights. I was a bit disappointed at how easy it was In my opinion playing the dark side was easier for all but the last couple missions. Playing the light side with all the other jedi helping you and not having to fight Kyle made the light side ending a bit easier I think. Out of all the Jedi Knight games I think my favorite duel was the Gorc and Pic fight in JK1. How about you guys?

[TK-8252]

I was disappointed when I found that

Tavion was the main enemy of the game.

I think it'd be cool if Tavion could've joined the academy after Kyle gave her another change after he defeated her on Bespin. She seemed very shocked about losing to a Jedi and you'd think that she'd lose interest in the Dark side.

 

I found that the addition of Alora as the sidekick of Tavion was a very dumb and rushed story. Jedi Academy still has the racism that Jedi Outcast had. With the additions of the Human Mercenaries, Lannik Racto, Rax, miner elders, saboteurs, and everyone I'm missing, there are far too many humans.

[peloquin]

Spend about an hour playing around with the npc files and most of the little short failings of the game can be fixed. Suggestion for those of you who would like a little less saber fights/cultists just change one or two of them over to the light side via there npc file and instead of finding two cultists waiting to fight you all over the map you end up walking in on some jedi fighting a cultist here and there. (you'll have to change model for the cultist, sound, player class, saber stuff like that) means less saber fights and adds some flavour to the maps. All the cultist pairings wont be changed, it's up to you how much you want to change and who, just play around with it. There are about 15 different cultists ALL of which can be altered to however you want.

 

Or you could just make some of em have a blaster instead of sabers, or just for a laugh change one to mon mothma and watch her run like hell when they spawn LOL.

[idontlikegeorge]

Originally posted by Wa'es

About that "only 2 Sith" thing. Yes, Yoda mentions this in Episode I. However, that doesn't explain how we now have Darth Sideous. Given their relative strengths, I would say that Dooku is (or was) apprenticed to Palpatine. Therefore, Maul was likely apprenticed to Dooku OR Palpatine. Either way, we have 3 Sith running around the galaxy and mixing things up. Discontinuity? YES and yet more evidence that George Lucas' prequel trilogy is a cash grab. (Sorry for that last bit...but I'm not happy with the plot holes and horrible acting that have been the rule rather than the exception)

 

No, Dooku became apprentice to Sidious/Palpatine AFTER Maul died. There is nothing that even implies that Dooku was working with Sidious and Maul in EP1.

 

Originally posted by TK8242MJL

Jedi Academy still has the racism that Jedi Outcast had. With the additions of the Human Mercenaries, Lannik Racto, Rax, miner elders, saboteurs, and everyone I'm missing, there are far too many humans.

 

Well, there were hardly any humans in Outcast, if you think about it. Only the occasional Jedi and Rebel on Yavin. Of course I'm not talking about Stormtroopers either, since they are anonymous saberblade fodder.

 

 

And yeah, like mentioned, "Sith" is not the same thing as "Dark Jedi" - for one thing, I don't mind the dark Jedi thing in this SW "era" - since most Jedi students have been in hiding, or don't know they had the force, during the grand days of the Empire, most New Order students start training older. Which means they keep their emotional attachments and whatnot, and likely more of them will become corrupted by their new-found powers.

 

 

And in any case, don't like the story/villains/enemies/characters? MAKE YOUR OWN GAME THEN.

[Qaz]

Hmmmm.....

 

LOL, people, an idea for a good storyline is always under your nose....

 

 

Dark Side........ Light Side

Sith...........................Jedi

 

Whats in between?

 

 

YUP, that's right, the neutral. We can have a new order/mercenary/neutral force user style of thing.

 

 

Think about it, what could be more fun then having a supirior force push that could knock people and thier lightsaber's out?

 

Some of the new concepts might include a new lightsaber style, lets say a light daggo with a lightsaber!

 

As for the story, let's say the Sith DO come back (that could be the first part of the storyline) and now Jedi and Sith are all over the galaxies again.

 

Now:

 

A. You could choose as what to become in the beggining: Train in the Sith Cult or the Jedi Order? Follow stabilization and order or chaos and hate? As the story of your deeds progresses (slaughter stuff, or preventing evil plans) you will locate a strange new group that stayed of the temptation of the dark side and the calmness and peace of the light side to become edge runners, just use the powers of the force that aren't motivated by feelings, and now a couple of branches that can combine:

 

A1. You see the truth and join the new group

A2. The group is obsessed with balance of the force and believes that the only way to preserve it is to kill of all Jedi and Sith

A3. You don't like the group and want to kill it, or your masters want the group dead.

A4. Because of the different world views the group wants to dominate the galaxy to enforce its visions, but not for Dark or Light Side...

A5. The group is called the Grey Swashbuclkers, etc.

A6. ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THIS F***ING CRAP OF JEDI\SITH UNITING, there should be a 3 way war with one side going for ultimate power and anarchy, other for saving the galaxy and order, and the last one to enforce its views on the galaxy.

 

Also there could be some fun plot twists and ideas, for ex: Sith inventing a new LightSaber which feeds off not a crystal, but of the dark side and works like a shaft of light emitting darkness....

 

So, what do ya think?

[-=FB=-Jagged]

pretty cool; kinda off the wall.

 

good ideas, almost all of em. i wasn't too sure about the grey side thing until you said that they could possibly attempt to destroy both sides, then i knew for sure: that idea is the one that wouldnt fly. why? as soon as they attacked -- hatred, violence, death, and destruction. all these lead to the dark side. there is a praxis evil, pure anger motivating your actions making you more powerful without turning you to the dark side, however the greys wouldnt be interested seeing as how they are not motivated by emotion.

 

no, how about some yuuzhan vong? thudbugs, amphistaffs, and crab armor along with worship of self-inflicted pain, mutilation, and death.

 

wonder if lucas has any new jedi order games in the works? they have good characters in them. (yes that was a sad attempt to stay on thread's subject)

[StormHammer]

I don't know about having 'neutral' Jedi...but the idea of different factions working against each other to achieve a particular objective is sound. After all, that was the basic premise of Deus Ex.

 

So I can well imagine starting off as a Jedi apprentice again...but the story is built in such a way that you don't really know who to trust, including the supposed 'good guys' at the Jedi Academy.

 

A nice scenario like the time Obi-Wan did the dirty on Luke, and told him his father was dead. If there was an even more momentous lie that was discovered...what then?

 

Mix in some shades of grey and uncertainty, with opposite sides that are 'believable' and can justify their actions convincingly. Then it really does become the player's choice about who is their enemy, and who must be stopped. Being able to switch sides depending on your actions...and maybe even becoming a free agent working for your own ends.

 

That kind of freedom of choice could lead to some very interesting scenarios.

 

Of course...it's unlikely ever to happen, but as people have stated before, there's always the possibility of a mod...

[Astrotoy7]

Without getting into one of those 'this is how things happen in the star wars universe' arguments, its not a huge surprise that the reborn are just hot heads running at you with sabers, as opposed to the characters in JKI. Seeing that they were suddenly granted force powers, their ability to use it effectively would be diminished compared to a jedi, light or dark, apprentice or not - namely someone who has lived and trained in using the force, be it for good or bad......

 

But still, in JA you get Alora, Tavion etc.

 

Gorc and Pic were great, did anyone ever make a skin or either of them for JO ? Gorc(I think he is the larger one??) had a saber hilt the size of a baseball bat !

 

MTFBWYA

[-=FB=-Jagged]

yeah yeah yeah, whatever. come up with new ideas, speculate all you want, (the ideas are good tho, and i would download the mods, or pay for the game) but i think lucasarts should roll with what works. go with storylines predtermined in the books, as in SOTE. the vong are so freakin cool. now THERE are some tough kills. and there are so many of em. they are impervious to the force, heck they dont even exist in the force (tho we are learnin a little bit more about that in the last of the NJO series with them researching the living planet of zonama sekot.) their character is already developed... it'd be a great game or games.

 

another idea. someone said why not make JA an expansion instead of an entirely new game? why not make our ideas into an expansion? wind it into the existing storyline, fix the voices for the characters, add more customization for the player, so on. make the choice for the force early. add more meaningful fights, cooler characters.

 

whats not to love?

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by -=FB=-Jagged

whats not to love?

 

The yuzxoyang Vuong.

 

 

I, like many others, think that the idea about Vongs is horrible. It's like something a bunch of 8-year-olds would come up with after having a "LIEK WHAT CULD EVAR BEAT TEH MASTAR JEDI!!!?"-debate.

 

(I only read the last post of this thread )

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

The yuzxoyang Vuong.

 

 

I, like many others, think that the idea about Vongs is horrible. It's like something a bunch of 8-year-olds would come up with after having a "LIEK WHAT CULD EVAR BEAT TEH MASTAR JEDI!!!?"-debate.

I agree... That EU comic stuff is kind of... dumb. And if you want to see what could beat a Jedi Master in Jedi Academy, spawn Boba Fett, Sand Creature, Rancor, or Mutant Rancor.

[Luc Solar]

Damn I wanna use the mutant rancor skin in MP...

 

I can already picture myself bunnyhopping around drain whoring peeps before I use Kyle's grappling techniques to kick the crap out of them!

 

Oh and imagine a 20 ft tall Rancor going all KATA on your ass! OMG pH34R!! :eek:

[Akai]

Originally posted by Doug Thompson

I agree with the thread's starting statement. This is one area where Jedi Outcast has Jedi Academy beat hands-down. The bartender in Outcast had more character than any of the villians

On a related note, the game series has to find a new enemy. The remnant's getting stale, frankly.

 

Agreed. Though there is something satisfying about cutting down swarms of stormtroopers it is getting a bit old. With the Empire shattered and the New Republic still not entirely in control yet you'd think that there would be a lot of other factions at work around the galaxy. Lot of politics, intrigue, that sort of thing.

[idontlikegeorge]

Originally posted by Akai

Agreed. Though there is something satisfying about cutting down swarms of stormtroopers it is getting a bit old. With the Empire shattered and the New Republic still not entirely in control yet you'd think that there would be a lot of other factions at work around the galaxy. Lot of politics, intrigue, that sort of thing.

 

Shh. I want my SP episode to be original.

 

But I agree with that statement, although you can't beat the pure gracefulness of a saber going through the mighty white armor of a legion of stormtroopers!

 

Actually, I guess adding on to this, is the fact, that a story doesn't have to involve the FUTURE OF THE ENTIRE GALACTIC EMPIRE/REPUBLIC/REBELLION. How about a smaller scale story, about some individual ending up in quite a big mess with all the crap going around the galaxy!

 

For example, I liked the storylines in X-wing: Alliance. I mean the character's name was stupid: "Ace? Maybe Acehole..." - but it had a story of a fairly simple family trying to make it in the middle of the Galactic Rebellion.

 

One problem with all these, though, is that the guns in Raven's Jedi Knight games, well, aren't exactly the best - the saber is so much better, and that requires a Jedi of Force-attuned character to be in the story.

 

I thought JK/MotS were well better off in this respect, I mean there were some very well done single player episodes from the community, and they didn't have to be Jedi-based - which allowed for more options with the stories.

 

Just some more thoughts.

[Akai]

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge

Shh. I want my SP episode to be original.

 

But I agree with that statement, although you can't beat the pure gracefulness of a saber going through the mighty white armor of a legion of stormtroopers!

 

Actually, I guess adding on to this, is the fact, that a story doesn't have to involve the FUTURE OF THE ENTIRE GALACTIC EMPIRE/REPUBLIC/REBELLION. How about a smaller scale story, about some individual ending up in quite a big mess with all the crap going around the galaxy!

 

My thoughts exactly. It's a big galaxy after all and not every game has to revolve around saving the galaxy from the latest uber-villian. One of the things Jedi do is get involved in regional disputes, trying to mediate things. Have some gray area in the story, not neccessarily a battle between good and evil, have some long term consequences. Maybe not quite up to the usual epic scale, but that could be a lot of fun in itself.

 

Anyhoo it will be neat to see what you have in store with your episode.

[Pedro The Hutt]

I could live very well with that, doing what a Jedi would be doing during a time of relative peace, helping settle smaller problems to prevent them from becoming big problems.

[Remirol Nacnud]

Well, the missions that you go on give you just that.

Saving the Elders, the crashed ship, the guy making robots etc.

 

Although I agree. I like the occasional game/film where the story isn't about saving the whole world.

 

Obviously there'd be little point in a SW game without a jedi, but I'm sure that you could have some 'simple' disputes.

[-=FB=-Jagged]

i like the x-wing alliance missions, too. winding a game into the movies' storyline and letting the game's character be in famous places like battle of hoth or endor is really sweet.

 

but that would be cool if the story and mission you were involved in mattered only to the main character, like in alliance. this could be done with mods in JA...