Using lightstaff as a lightsider.

[king yoda]

in the comic Jango Fett the hunt begann part 2 of 2

there you can see a young count dooku too with a group of other jedi´s, when they fight mandalorians and jango on galidraan.

there he has a blue saber.

[Cmdr. Cracken]

Saber colors that Sith/Jedi use are symbolic, nothing more, methinks.

 

i mean, i don't think any of the councle would have/could say anything against a fellow Jedi Master picking red as the saber color. i mena, eh, so what? it's just breaking probably what is tradition, and really..... It's a Jedi Master. they'd probably watch the bloke more carefully, but other than that... i'd think it'd be legal.

 

now a PADAWAN picking red right off the bat is just looking for trouble... ^_^

 

so maybe color indicates tendancies in the force? like a sub-concious thing?

eh. oh well.

[Kurgan]

The whole "blue and green are for good guys, red is for bad guys" quote from Lucas on the AOTC DVD is pretty much the first time anyone outside of Lucas's inner circle ever heard that most likely.

 

The EU authors covering the pre-film eras, the post film eras, and the prequel eras (even the TPM stories) assumed that other saber colors were possible.

 

They even had to retcon a story and throw in that Mace Windu's blue saber was actually one he borrowed from another Jedi (the story had him returning it).

 

This was because in Jedi Power Battles and an action figure they made of Mace, he had a blue saber (we never saw his saber ignited in TPM remember)?

 

"Yoda's saber" that everybody saw before AOTC was actually a fan-made model, which found itself onto a few sites (and possiby some semi-official sources). But AFAIK it didn't look anything like the hilt we actually saw him USE in AOTC. Some of the EU even assumed that Yoda didn't use lightsabers period (since we didn't see him use one in the original films).

 

I agree about the whole "looks pretty onscreen" thing. The same thing could be said about making the blaster shots different colors.

 

There's all kinds of in-universe explanations you can try to make up, few of them consistent. But the attempts continue...

 

Lucas's (paraphrased) explanation is that it's just like in the old serials... the good guys wear white, the bad guys wear black. But of course he's not always consistent with it either, especially in the prequels.

 

 

The new saber color policy by Lucas was the reason why Kyle suddenly had a blue saber in JK2, because single player was considered "official" enough in games that it had to follow Lucas's new rules (I guess) and why all the bad guys had red (though it made sense in story... because their sabers were clearly mass produced, probably in a single factory complex).

 

That is why I was a bit (pleasantly) surprised that in JA we could choose any color in SP (except red, without cheating... because that's considered a "bad guy color" by Lucas). The bad guys still use all red of course.

 

At least MP has no such restrictions!

[killabilly]

I dunno where I heard this from, - probably from these same forums as well - someone said that the lightsaber turns red because it is infused by the anger of the dark force user who is wielding it...

which is probably why Jaden's lightsaber turned red after gettin pissed off with Rosh on Taspir.

 

 

 

However going back to the original subject of this thread...

 

Yep I do think that the double bladed saber is more of a Sith weapon because:

 

- Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, they resolve problems by using peaceful methods, such as mind trick and the likes, when skillful enough they rarely even have to put their lightsabers into action.

 

- Even if it comes down to the last resort that is violence, jedi are supposed to be defensive in battle, which is why they get all the absorb and protect and heal powers.

 

And the double bladed lightsaber is designed for ultimate combat, and that is combat only. It is used to gain advantage over the opponent by putting fear in him... or something like that, so its not very jedi-like in my opinion because of all its advanced battle elements.

[Fractal-Coffee]

Vaguely on topic, if I were to make a lightsabre, I'd probably go for a staff. Aside from the fact it looks cool, I already know how to use a staff reasonably well, and I'd just have to change my style ever so slightly so it never touches me.

 

 

And it'd make it blacklight.

 

Ph33r Darth NightFever.

[FurionStormrage]

IIRC, the purest lightsabre crystals are green. Impurities or additives to the crystals give the sabre its colour. Whether or not the red occurs because of the "dark side" I don't know about that.

 

According to what I read, when using the purest crystals for constructing a lightsabre, the resultant sabre is of unsurpassed potency. Why most Jedi (dark or otherwise) would even bother adding impurities to make another colour thereby reducing its potency...

[Kurgan]

According to the SW (canon) ROTJ Radio Drama, Luke didn't have the highest recommended crystals to use when he constructed his green lightsaber.

 

So maybe green isn't the "purest" version available?

 

And why would Mace Windu, a prominent member of the Jedi Council and Jedi Master have a crappy (by that interpretation) purple saber?

 

And the other thing is, what is this "potency" you speak of? Is a red saber anyless able to cut through a surface than a green or blue one?

 

One theory about turbolaser color that got batted around a bit was that the color determined the "efficiency" based on power usage of the bolt. The Empire used green (in the classic trilogy) so it was assumed this was a newer or more expensive version of the technology that the Empire had access to but the Rebels didn't. Hand weapons were red because they didn't need that extra efficiency and used cheaper components.

 

It was probably assumed that lightsabers and blasters worked on a similar principle and thus the colors might mean something similar.

 

Of course the "in-universe" EU explanations for how things work don't match up.

 

Tell me if I get this right:

 

Supposedly an explosive gas (tibanna) is encased in some kind of force field "bottle" and "fired" out of the gun. The bottle ruptures and the gas expels its explosive energy to the target on impact.

 

Lightsabers use a "focusing crystal" or some other such crystal-like object and a powercell. Somehow it expends energy (but never seems to run out, some kind of super conductor) and zings it through the crystal to produce a continuous blade that acts like a solid that "heats" its way through things and has to be pushed.

 

 

Of course the blaster color theory above (the one about red vs. green) theory flies in the face of the prequels, where we have brand new super powerful "blue" shots (from the Clone Trooper heavy rifles) and blue beams from certain tanks (vs. the green beams of the LAATs) and we have green hand weapons (that don't seem particularly more powerful) like Amidala's blaster. Plus there's also purple turbo lasers (Dooku's escorts near the end of AOTC).

 

Yep I do think that the double bladed saber is more of a Sith weapon because:

 

- Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers, they resolve problems by using peaceful methods, such as mind trick and the likes, when skillful enough they rarely even have to put their lightsabers into action.

 

Police carry all manner of violent equipment for law enforcement: guns, hand cuffs, billy clubs, riot shields, body and vehicle armor, gas masks, tear gas, tazers, rubber bullets, fully automatic weapons, etc.

 

The tools of the trade are supposed to be EQUAL or GREATER than what criminals might carry. Thus Jedi would logically be armed to meet the threat of the scum they are dealing with. Diplomacy shouldn't require any weapons at all. That's why they have the Senate guard and stuff like that.

 

- Even if it comes down to the last resort that is violence, jedi are supposed to be defensive in battle, which is why they get all the absorb and protect and heal powers.

 

Its often been said that a good defense is a strong offense. Disable or kill your enemy and he won't be doing anymore harm to you or to others. The Jedi are quite lethal in battle as they've shown numerous times. In the games they have "powers" but int he films they aren't restricted that way necessarily. Remember that Luke choked those two Gammoreans who were threatening him at Jabba's palace in ROTJ. Qui Gon Jinn backhanded Darth Maul in the face in TPM. Luke pulled away a guards blaster in ROTJ and tried to shoot Jabba with it (he failed of course). Anakin used the force to toss debris at Geonosian warriors who were attacking him in the droid factory in AOTC. etc.

 

And the double bladed lightsaber is designed for ultimate combat, and that is combat only.

 

And a regular lightsaber isn't?

 

It is used to gain advantage over the opponent by putting fear in him... or something like that, so its not very jedi-like in my opinion because of all its advanced battle elements.

 

Lightsabers inspire fear (as we saw them scare the battle droids that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon first encountered on the Trade Federation ship in TPM). So how is this any different?

 

It's like drawing a gun. A SHOW of force. Not exactly peaceful and diplomatic is it?

 

Not flaming you, just disagreeing with your opinion. ; )

[killabilly]

Originally posted by Kurgan

Not flaming you, just disagreeing with your opinion. ; )

Its okay, thats what a good arguments all about isnt it?

 

But its just that for a jedi, a real challenge in a battle is another jedi, as there is really nothing else in the galaxy that could match up to their skills and reflexes(except if you're talking about something like a rancor which is more effective by countering with guns anyway...) So maybe excessive lightsaber styles arent really unnessesary for fighting the usual grunts, especially in its time of peace (eg. in JA with the empire disappearing and the development of the New Republic well on the way)

 

So the lightstaff in my opinion is slightly over the top for a goodie jedi, unless you're expecting battles with loads of sith. I guess its made for the people who get angry and like to fight a lot (not sure if the jedi are like that... well the ones being drawn to the dark side neway...)

 

Plus I read something in the game's Readme saying that most jedi use the single blade, it is in a very rare pratice for them use dual sabers, and even rarer still is the double bladed saber - because of the resources required to build one, plus most jedi generally talk peace anyway.

But near the end of the game, most - like half- of the light jedi i run into wield the staff, which contradicts what the game's own Readme said.

[Samurai Gunman]

this is my opinion - based off of what ive read, seen, and heard.

 

Color for Jedi means nothing. in KotOR, they tried to take it that color represented your "role" in the Jedi (Consulars, Guardians, Sentinels). the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (for the SW RPG) states that lightsaber color is denoted by crystal, which is based of the jedi who used the crystal.

 

ive always taken color to mean the rarity of a crystal. Blue being most common, then Green, then yellow, then Purple (being most rare). crystals that are used for Lightsabers were once plentiful but now have become rather in short supply - which is why the more interesting saber colors are around more in the older periods of time (like the Sith War and such).

 

im sure Red Crystals occur naturally in nature - but are rare like the Purple crystals.

 

secondly - i remember when saber color was denoted by the dial thingy on a LS hilt - and that the main charcters chose the colors they did so as not to confuse one another.

which is dumb.

 

i favor the Sith Synthetic Crystal idea - it makes more sense to me.

[Kurgan]

But its just that for a jedi, a real challenge in a battle is another jedi, as there is really nothing else in the galaxy that could match up to their skills and reflexes(except if you're talking about something like a rancor which is more effective by countering with guns anyway...)

 

Totally disagree with you there. ; )

 

We know from the movies (and from playing Jedi Outcast) that thsi simply isn't so. Sufficient firepower by non Force user/Non saber users can be effective against Jedi.

 

Remember Galak Fyarr? He did pretty well considering he was a mere mortal in a cortosis-plated combat mech.

 

Remember how many Jedi died on Genosis? The held their own, but took heavy casualties from waves of battle droids with blasters and Geonosians with sonic weapons. They couldn't block everything and perhaps not being used to fighting in groups, simply got in each others way more often than not...

 

And I'm not even getting into the (mostly BS IMHO) stuff from the EU about force negating ysalimaris, Yuzang Vohn who are magically "immune" to the Force and stuff like that.

 

 

So maybe excessive lightsaber styles arent really unnessesary for fighting the usual grunts, especially in its time of peace (eg. in JA with the empire disappearing and the development of the New Republic well on the way)

 

Again, in the EU ever two weeks you have a new Imperial warlord, Dark Jedi, superweapon or alien invasion to threaten the entire galaxy, so they've actually been quite busy since the Empire fell...

 

So the lightstaff in my opinion is slightly over the top for a goodie jedi, unless you're expecting battles with loads of sith. I guess its made for the people who get angry and like to fight a lot (not sure if the jedi are like that... well the ones being drawn to the dark side neway...)

 

Actually I think if Star Wars were more "realistic" Jedi would use armor, and a variety of weapons, not just the lightsaber.

 

The lightsaber may be their signature weapon, but with the Force, their skill in the use of ANY weapon would theoretically be an order of magnitude higher than the greatest people skilled with them who lacked the Force.

 

We also know that Jedi are far from immortal (the prequels) and perhaps supremely overconfident. With better equipment (and considering their numbers, they should be vastly concerned with minimizing their casualties) they would be better off and could do their jobs better.

 

It's like martial arts. You may have a supreme blackbelt master in a bunch of styles that can beat up any unarmed thug you throw at him, but forming an army of martial artists with nothing but their fists or a pair of nunchuk's each isn't going to win you many battles (unless your opponents all consist of unarmed thugs).

 

Plus I read something in the game's Readme saying that most jedi use the single blade, it is in a very rare pratice for them use dual sabers, and even rarer still is the double bladed saber - because of the resources required to build one, plus most jedi generally talk peace anyway.

 

Its rare sure, but that's just due to the writers, they haven't given any logical reasons why it would be rare, other than tradition.

 

And traditions change, as we saw with the EU vs. the Prequels.

 

What "resources" are we talking about here? The Republic funds the Jedi Order (as far as we can tell) and since its a peacekeeping force, they get whatever they think is necessary to keep the peace.

 

So that would include whatever equipment they need to build lightsabers, and if the EU is to be believed then these "Practice sabers" are everywhere.

 

In fact, all you would really need to do to build a saberstaff is take two lightsabers and weld the handles together. Done! What's so hard about that?

 

But near the end of the game, most - like half- of the light jedi i run into wield the staff, which contradicts what the game's own Readme said.

 

Well it said Jedi right? It didn't say DARK JEDI or SITH did it? Maybe the readme author wanted you to be surprised? ; )

 

You got me there, but you get the idea.

[Kurgan]

this is my opinion - based off of what ive read, seen, and heard.

 

Color for Jedi means nothing. in KotOR, they tried to take it that color represented your "role" in the Jedi (Consulars, Guardians, Sentinels). the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (for the SW RPG) states that lightsaber color is denoted by crystal, which is based of the jedi who used the crystal.

 

I concur. Lucas's use of symbolism isn't an in-universe explanation either (as I think I mentioned at least implied).

 

ive always taken color to mean the rarity of a crystal. Blue being most common, then Green, then yellow, then Purple (being most rare). crystals that are used for Lightsabers were once plentiful but now have become rather in short supply - which is why the more interesting saber colors are around more in the older periods of time (like the Sith War and such).

 

Could be, although that doesn't explain why the odd colors suddenly crop up again in the Post-Empire period.

 

I thought that maybe Coruscant has a lot of blue and green crystals (or the method for making sabers with those colors is more popular there) and that explains why the principles usually use those colors (Mace Windu being the exception, and for all we know he got his saber from off world).

 

im sure Red Crystals occur naturally in nature - but are rare like the Purple crystals.

 

That's the thing, we're assuming these crystals are naturally occuring, but we also know (in real life) that crystals can be synthesized. In fact, it seems that Luke did this when he built his green saber (at least according to one version of the story).

 

secondly - i remember when saber color was denoted by the dial thingy on a LS hilt - and that the main charcters chose the colors they did so as not to confuse one another.

which is dumb.

 

That's a great explanation, I like it! lol

 

i favor the Sith Synthetic Crystal idea - it makes more sense to me.

 

So "synthetic = red"? But then how does that explain Luke's "synthetic" green saber?

 

And why would only Sith choose to use synthetic crystals anyway (painting the Jedi Order as being "one with the land" bunch of nature boys and the Sith being "unnatural" freaks who use technology??)?

[Stormtrooper X]

Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

 

The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

[Samurai Gunman]

i never heard that Lukes Green crystal was synthetic - someone told me that Obi-Wan found a few crystals in some tatooine cave...

[cayqel]

Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

 

Admittadly it's been a while since I watch ANH, but when exactly does this happen?

[Flashblade]

Since the only saber fight in ANH is Ben vs Vader he can only mean this one however he remembers this wrong since Ben purposely let Vaders saber pass when he moves his saber out of the defense position. And he can't back up what he told anyway since this information doesn't exist!

[Scythefall]

Originally posted by Stormtrooper X

Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

 

The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

 

Well, Maul is the most powerfully trained Sith fighter in history according to Lucas' account. No doubt the Saber staff was his choice because he didn't intend to be set back by the number of jedi he was facing. He developed a style to fight on all sides of him and not be daunted by multiple opponents. He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Scythefall

He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

 

Except for that little part at the end when he got cut in two by a single Jedi, sorry Padawan. "Ooo, that's GOTTA hurt!"

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Scythefall

Well, Maul is the most powerfully trained Sith fighter in history according to Lucas' account. No doubt the Saber staff was his choice because he didn't intend to be set back by the number of jedi he was facing. He developed a style to fight on all sides of him and not be daunted by multiple opponents. He held his own against two jedi with little problem.

 

Totally contradicted by the EU, but if George said it, that settles it.

; )

 

 

Sith use red sith synethetic crystals that when powered by the energies of the dark side, the lightsaber blade is stronger, and can occasionally break the blade. (AS demonstrated by Vader in ANH)

 

Like I said, that's an EU yarn that's not supported by the movies. I agree, that last part is nowhere in the movies.

 

If red crystals produce red blades and are thus "powered by the dark side" why did Adi Gallia get a red blade in Jedi Power battles?

 

Granted, this was contradicted by AOTC (which settled it that all of the Jedi use blue or green and Mace uses purple).

 

If Maul were such a bada$$ and he had Palpatine (a powerful man, surely with some money stored away) financing him, surely he wouldn't have settled for a low quality weapon would he? He obviously was well funded, since he had a special ship (Sith "Infiltrator" with a cloaking device, according to the TPM Incredible Cross Sections) and a bunch of probe droids.

 

The fact that his saberstaff still worked after Obi-Wan cut it in half is a testament to its design quality!

 

 

The saber staff is not a "sith weapon". The only reason Maul used it in EP1 was because it would be more powerful and he had spent years training with it. Jedi only used single blades normally because they don't escpect to find a sabre weilding enemy and is therefore inappropriate.

 

Perhaps, although Anakin did pretty well with two sabers at once. And what about the EU yarn that saberstaffs are "padawan practice weapons"?

[Samurai Gunman]

i heard that the only Two Bladed Lightsaber (Saberstaff, etc) in history, was Exar Kun's blade. Maul copied the idea, but lengthened the blades considerably and developed his own style with it.

 

other Jedi have stumbled upon the idea, and surely, the plans can be found in certain Sith Holocrons - but it is beleived to go against the teachings of Odan-Urr, and the fact that it was created by a Dark Lord...

 

go figure.

[idontlikegeorge]

Personally, I think if a Jedi wants to put his energies into learning and using a saberstaff, they should be able to "knock themselves out." I felt in Academy, that there was an overuse of dual sabers and saberstaves - but that's kind of expected, as those were the new toys of the game.

 

Also, my "pure" lightside Jaden version, a Twi'lek female, used the saberstaff. I also had a "moderate" human male Jaden, with a single saber; and my dark side Jaden was a human female with duals.

 

 

"Perhaps, although Anakin did pretty well with two sabers at once. And what about the EU yarn that saberstaffs are "padawan practice weapons"?"

 

Maybe the trainer uses the staff, instead of the student(s)?

 

Obi-Wan mentions Anakin's potential for saber fighting in AotC. And, sure, Anakin didn't cut any of his toes or fingers off using two blades, but he didn't win the duel either.

[Tsaya]

And, sure, Anakin didn't cut any of his toes or fingers off using two blades

 

Well, why should he? After all that was Dooku's job

[idontlikegeorge]

Exactly my point!

[DarthMauled]

This is what Star Wars.com has to say about it. So A jedi can use a doublebladed lightsaber as they use it in training.

[Dethsaint]

Please note this in the above link:

 

In the past, the double-ended lightsaber was reserved only for training purposes.

 

This doesn't mean it is forbidden for good Jedi to use doublebladed sabers as means of "hostile negotiation" - it simply states that it is just highly unusual for them to do so.

[Fractal-Coffee]

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge

I felt in Academy, that there was an overuse of dual sabers and saberstaves - but that's kind of expected, as those were the new toys of the game

 

That's why I played with the .npc files. Now all the jedi use single blades. All the reborn use single blades, except the staff ones, which I figured I'd leave in for variety, and the rebornmaster (dual and staff) guys.

 

No more legion of staff/dual wielding badguys! Now they're special encounters

 

Bump up hitpoints across the board and it makes things more fun. In my opinion, anyway.

 

 

Back on topic-ish, would the majority of Jedi even know there was such a thing as a double-bladed lightsabre? I mean, I'd never even thought of one until Kun, and then I figured "hey, that'd be a good idea, as long as you don't, y'know, touch yourself with it."

 

But would any other classically trained Jedi even think having a sabre-staff would be a possibility? If we go with the movies and ignore all the EU stuff, we've seen an entire one staff. Which makes it rare to the point of extinction (now that Maul's dead). And from what I've learned of people in general, if it's extinct, and went extinct before they knew about it, they usually never know about it.

 

 

Just a thought, really.