Kurgan Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Okay I might be off base here, but I was reading some posts in the Raven forums about this and it struck me as so simple. Add CTY (Capture the Ysalimari) back into JA and the "problem" with lacking kicks to kill flag carriers is solved. Why? Let me explain my reasoning here.... in Full Force, Sabers Only CTF, they say, the Flag Carriers are essentially "immortal" because they are constantly being team healed and team energized by their escorting teammates, and so the only way to get them is with a quick knockdown from kick to kill. Well in CTY, it was IDENTICAL in every way to CTF, including the use of force, EXCEPT that a Flag Carrier cannot use Force, or have Force used on him until he captures or drops the flag! And before you whine that this is more work than adding flip kicks back into JA as a cvar, realize that even without official mapping tools, a guy successfully converted ALL of the JK2 FFA, Duel and CTF maps to JA. Despite a few bugs with elevators and some missing sound effects, they're pretty much intact, and that includes use of items, and yes, that includes the dreaded Ysalimari. The only difference between the pickup Ysalimari and the CTY version is that the CTY version isn't time based, and it only applies to the flags. So we KNOW it works. Additionally, the "Slug" (as we used to call it in MotS) makes it so you can't use ground rolls, but you CAN use katas and saber moves that use up Force mana (but not acrobatic moves that require force jumping). So what do you guys think? No flames, just constructively tell me what you think of this idea.... this wouldn't require any patching from Raven, all it would take is somebody to do what archer did and port the CTY gametype (or just the 4 JK2 CTY maps as modified CTF levels if that's too hard). I hear some people prefer the JK2 CTF maps to those in JA anyway... this would kill two birds with one stone! According to Raven this gametype was left out of JA because it "wasn't that popular" although it would seem to address the concerns of the Sabers Only Full Force CTF players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 The only problem with that is it makes the flag carrier practically a sitting duck for Speed users. Even with full cover, you can disregard the cover, and immediately go for the FC. It would make flag retrievals almost too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 I anticipated that, but here's something else... why not take the limited force idea? In JA there are already examples of this, like the sith crystals on Siege_Korriban. They slow your mana regeneration way down when held, and limit your force powers to Jump (but force can ACT on you the same). By limiting the Flag Carrier's ability to use force of have force used on him, it could be balanced more to your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Good idea, I hate people who take the flag and Force Speed like heck. I do run after them and slash them on the way, but still... I wish they had (like you said) pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 This is JUST an idea, it may not work for you. But it should be simple to mod even the JA CTF maps, just replace two models and flag the flags (no pun intended) as Ysalimari's... or sith crystals or whatever, the individual stats could be tweaked in all sorts of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Originally posted by Rad Blackrose The only problem with that is it makes the flag carrier practically a sitting duck for Speed users. Even with full cover, you can disregard the cover, and immediately go for the FC. It would make flag retrievals almost too easy. This is how I handle(d) CTY in JK2 (BTW it is STILL available on my JK2 server 64.246.58.228, the only CTY game still available as far as I know. It is only 1 map in the 21-map cycle, so if you see CTF gametype 7 on ctf_bespin, there is a 50% chance the NEXT map will be CTY gametype 8 on ctf_yavin. It comes between two CTF maps so the CTF players stick around and play it, and many enjoy it. The games are big during primetime. As I am writing this on a Friday afternoon, a Capture the Ysalamiri game just ended and there were 19 people playing it! When was the last time you saw that? Happens every day on that server.): 1. Most weapons disabled. At first I made it saber-only, but then I put back thermals, det packs, and trip mines so the ysalamiri carrier and escorts could throw them at pursuers, and vice versa. And then I put back the pistol so you could shoot any mines around the ysalamiri, and take potshots at each other. But all the big guns are disabled. Saber-only is also reasonable. 2. Force Speed and Dark Rage disabled for CTY only. Since the ysalamiri carrier can't use Force, it was too easy for pursuers to use Speed and\or Rage to overtake the carrier, even if she was strafe-jumping. Disabling it gives the "salami" carrier a fighting chance. But no Rage or Speed made crossing the map for everyone tedious, so that lead to the final refinement: 3. Gamespeed (running speed) increased 40% for everyone! I increased the basic running speed 40% for everyone, carriers and non-carriers alike. Even though no one has Force Speed, the 40% increase is like having Force Speed level 1.5 on all the time, with no Force pool drain (the server has very fast Force regeneration anyway). That made it easy to get back and forth across the map, but the "salami" carrier had the same speed so they couldn't be outrun. All these changes make for a very fun and fast-paced gametype. People who never had a chance to play it before are amazed how much fun it is. The ysalamiri carrier isn't so helpless (can't be outrun, and Pull, Grip, and Lightning have no effect on the carrier), but it still promotes teamwork. The MOTD for that map says "Escort your ysalamiri carrier to safety" to give newbs a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 The idea certainly seems like it might have some potential. There are obviously quite a few ways to 'balance' that particular gametype. In the end, it might be more prudent to make a mod that suits the particular needs of those who play this game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Well, I've taken to use of my mastery of fbs as a way to win saber-only CTF. But it's a stopgap technique at best, as I'm sure fbs will be nerfed eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Well, I've taken to use of my mastery of fbs as a way to win saber-only CTF. But it's a stopgap technique at best, as I'm sure fbs will be nerfed eventually. What's "fbs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Funny on how one of the game modes that was taken out is being though up to be ported over to JA. Just thought of that as I was reading the posts:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan What's "fbs"? Flying backslash. Which, in form and function, is relatively similar whether you are jumping up to meet your victim or jumping forward to meet them. You do a lot more damage than standing on the ground and backslashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 While I appreciate the constructive idea you laid out, it simply is not going to work. The sole reason we play ff/so: The fast and frenzied pace of full force combat when combined with the precise and refined nature of saber only combat, forms a game type that is incredibly fast paced, yet almost totally missing the sloppy and random elements of other game types. Slowing it down to compensate for game play problems is like making the drivers in the Indy 500 all drive 30 miles per hour for the entire race so as to not have any fatal collisions. While technically it will solve the problem, it’s kind of a self defeating proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iblis Reborn Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I personally like the idea it would make it pretty hard to score points and your capper would have to kick ass but that i beleive is the point id play it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 The fast and frenzied pace of full force combat when combined with the precise and refined nature of saber only combat, forms a game type that is incredibly fast paced, yet almost totally missing the sloppy and random elements of other game types. Slowing it down to compensate for game play problems is like making the drivers in the Indy 500 all drive 30 miles per hour for the entire race so as to not have any fatal collisions. While technically it will solve the problem, it’s kind of a self defeating proposal. Granted, it would be a bit slower, for the flag carrier at least, and slower if they kept dying. Though what do you think of Amidala's idea of increasing overall gamespeed? Perhaps there isn't just one solution, but many could be creatively applied in order to make it feel right and then the S/O CTF FF community could adopt it as a standard (or not, depending on what people want to do). I know its possible to really liven things up on the Q3 engine. When I tried to play Elite Force online I noticed the server I had joined had jacked up gamespeed (it was as fast a JK1 on Level 4 Force Speed!). Though considering I was new player, I died pretty fast. ; ) Still, with JA it would "fit" a lot better, because you have all the over-the-top Jedi stuff already, rather than just guns that require precise aim. Update: The default g_speed setting for JA is 250. I tried setting it to 500 just for the heck of it, and boy was it fast! Whoa! Probably a little too fast, but still it definately changes the entire dynamic... test it out and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hekx Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 To be completely honest, I found CTY a good mode in JK2, the only problem was it didn't become popular enough and finding servers was near impossible. It's a good idea to add some restrictions for flag carriers, and probably the same effect as the Ysalamari is the thing, just not the glow. If they glow, they'll be easier to see than a traffic light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 Though flag carriers already cast a big bright glow, all this did was make it a visible anti-force bubble (the color of the flag, which confused some people). And in CTF you're using force seeing already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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