mtropolis Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Why cant they just make a jedi game thats actually have realistic saber duels? Like in the movies? I realy love the Jedi Knight series, but i have never had the joy of playin a starwars game thats got good saber duels:( Cant anyone of you mod`s out there make a mod that is giving more life into the saber fights. In jedi knight2 and 3 the saberfights is chaos. and the more skilled enemies uses the force too mutch. To mutch lightning, push and pulls. The Jedi`s in the movies almost never uses those skills in a civilized saber duel... I cant imagine im the only 1 that want this... sorry for the bad english, not my strongest language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 What you want is to find a server with Saber Only (s/o) and No Force powers (nf), and possibly with the Saber Damage increased so a single hit is either a kill or dismemberment, just like in the movies. I can't give you specific places, since it is difficult to find ones that have all three combined all of the time - but they are out there. Maybe someone will be willing to post a list of Saber Only No Force servers with enhanced saber damage as well. In the meantime... if you're only using the ingame browser, then you might appreciate visiting http://www.qtracker.com or http://www.udpsoft.com, the homes of two alternative server browsers: Qtracker and All Seeing Eye respectively. They will help you find more variation in your online experience, with ASE being the easiest to use out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara What you want is to find a server with Saber Only (s/o) and No Force powers (nf), and possibly with the Saber Damage increased so a single hit is either a kill or dismemberment, just like in the movies. I can't give you specific places, since it is difficult to find ones that have all three combined all of the time - but they are out there. Maybe someone will be willing to post a list of Saber Only No Force servers with enhanced saber damage as well. In the meantime... if you're only using the ingame browser, then you might appreciate visiting http://www.qtracker.com or http://www.udpsoft.com, the homes of two alternative server browsers: Qtracker and All Seeing Eye respectively. They will help you find more variation in your online experience, with ASE being the easiest to use out of the box. that doesn't help, i know what hes talking about, its like the sabers... don't connect... id want it to somehow be like a bunch of really fast saber locks or something so the sabers actually look like their fighting, also im not talking about MP, he may be though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 In Jedi O/A saber combat propably the biggest problem is that there isn't really ANY blocking... (usually if you just stand still and let the opponent slash you... your own character doesn't move a muscle... and in those rare cases when you do try to block it doesn't make much difference because the attack will most likely go right through your defence...) So players must move a lot, ... keep distance to the opponent and get closer only to make quick slash and then quickly pull back again.. and usually those slashes hit nothing but air... I quess it do work in some ways but it for sure doesn't have anything to do with SW lightsaber combat or any fencing... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In SP things are a little bit better but not very good there either... + Of cource in SW lightsaber combat those guys stop in to some kind of "quick saber locks" every ~3 second... which doesn't happen in the games at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 in SP when your killing Stormtroopers, the saber very rarely goes through the stormtrooper, theres just a bunch of wild slashing then the stormtrooper falls, if you ask me, i think they should stop being so... erm... LAZY and drop the Q3 engine and make a similar, yet much better one, maybe one that somehow knows exacly where the saber is slicing and actually slices the model where the saber hits and adds better saber animations to calculate where and when the sabers connect, i know its possible, their just to lazy to do it Quake 3 Engine [EDIT] i made a new thread just for this comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by ig64 if you ask me, i think they should stop being so... erm... LAZY and drop the Q3 engine and make a similar, yet much better one Believe me, as someone who makes a living in the software industry, laziness is the last thing involved in making these kinds of decisions. Calling Raven lazy is simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Believe me, as someone who makes a living in the software industry, laziness is the last thing involved in making these kinds of decisions. Calling Raven lazy is simply ridiculous. are you saying raven is poor? [EDIT] let me put this another way: what is envolved in making these decisions? money? raven shouldn't be the poor. time? why rush it? take the time you need. as you can see, i just don't understand the software industry, or why they can't make better games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Knights of the Old Republic is coming out for PC this year, and it has some pretty cool looking saber duels. Look at a few movies of it and you'll see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Depends on what you mean by "realistic." And which movies? (Prequels or original trilogy?) Seriously there is only so much you can do in an internet game to make melee battles cool looking fun AND balanced. If you want more "realistic" melee battles, try Bushido Blade series on the PSX. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarteX Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 So players must move a lot, ... keep distance to the opponent I completely agree with you AJL. Who the hell would fight like that in "real-life". It looks stupid with 2 jedi circle-strafing around eachother trying to time an uber slow red stance slash. If your playing yellow vs yellow only, it looks abit better . To find players using yellow stance only is quite hard. In an interview, Raven said that some of their employees were training martial arts. If that's true, Why the hell did they make the saber combat look so stupid. Lets not forget those uber slow red stance swings, just because you swing slower doesnt mean you're going to hit harder. Even if I hate these flaws, I still like the game but it could have been so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samus Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I also think the saber battles look quite chaotic, but they're fun all the same. I'm really looking forward to KOTOR, though. Those saber battles look fantastic! (And the Xbox-version has been highly acclaimed.) Does anyone know when that will be in the stores for PC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I think its mid-November... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaya Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I do see your point mtropolis and would really love having such a game as well. But as much as we might want it, I don't think that it is possible. Not technically but rather physically: Keep in mind what being a jedi is about: knowing the force, having a sense of things before they happen. The only reason why jedi fight the way they do is because they have a good guess where their opponents next strike may hit so they can parry it. In the movies they simulate this by using a good and well trained choreography (the actors know indeed what the next move will be because they were told before the fight). In a game you can't simulate it. It would require you to do all the blocking and slashing yourself, determine the exact position of your saber at any given time. Now despite the fact that this isn't technically possible yet (I'd sure love some kind of game controller that gives you this kind of control!) even if this was possible it wouldn't work: There is no choreography and you don't know where the enemy will hit next. So unless you are a real jedi (which I pretty much doubt ) you will have a hard time putting up a fight as the ones seen in the movies. There is of course the possibility of having the computer do the moves for you as it is in KoTOR but that isn't the same - no real Action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 The fact is that the current saber system wasn't designed to simulate the saber battles of the movies. I'm going to be focused on fixing these issues (for the Open Jedi Project and Masters of the Force) once the SDK comes out. Give us time, we'll figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by ig64 are you saying raven is poor? [EDIT] let me put this another way: what is envolved in making these decisions? money? raven shouldn't be the poor. time? why rush it? take the time you need. as you can see, i just don't understand the software industry, or why they can't make better games... You try to keep your overhead as low as possible by "cutting corners" and recycling what you can so as to lower your initial expenses. In turn, your profit is a greater %. Just because a game costs 49.99, don't think for a second that the 49.99 price is pure profit. If anything, they get maybe 4.99 profit (if even that) out of each sale and the rest goes to compensate for the expenses (paying the development team, fees to Activision who spent money marketing and distributing the game, etc.). Using an engine they have already purchased a license for as opposed to spending the time and money developing a new one is just a simple smart business decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 To make the sabers hit realistic, (the guy with the Jabba avatar is by the way completely is by the way 100% right) they could always make it so that saber locks last for a half second, so every time you hit a saber lock is triggered, but not just in the normal way, in all kinds of positions, and it should happen really fast so it looks like the sabers are hitting. And by the way, the lightsaber is like air. I stood slashing at this guys lightsaber (not the hilt but the core) and it just went right through without any sparks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterSidious Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Without any sparks? That's kinda unusual, or is it? I almost always get sparks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bifford Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Is there a mod out there that increases saber and blaster damage, so that a single slash = death, as would a few shots from a blaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Master William To make the sabers hit realistic, (the guy with the Jabba avatar is by the way completely is by the way 100% right) they could always make it so that saber locks last for a half second, so every time you hit a saber lock is triggered, but not just in the normal way, in all kinds of positions, and it should happen really fast so it looks like the sabers are hitting. I have an plan on how to impliment that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I know, it is in fact very easy. Just edit the saber locks times to like half a second each, make it so that every time you hit enemy with the saber it's a saberlock, and also alot of new animations... The animation part is hardest, but what I'm saying is that Raven can actually do this quite easy... Atleast I would like to see a sample of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Master William I know, it is in fact very easy. Just edit the saber locks times to like half a second each, make it so that every time you hit enemy with the saber it's a saberlock, and also alot of new animations... The animation part is hardest, but what I'm saying is that Raven can actually do this quite easy... Atleast I would like to see a sample of it... It's much more complicated than that. You'd have to determine which saber lock animations to use and create a ton of new animations (which are not easy to do in the first place). My method will involve using the current animations to allow dynamic locks in any attack move. Even my method requires a lot of work including a total rewrite of the animation system to allow more animation options. I've got as far as finishing a prototype of the animation system for JK2 but hit an engine limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by ig64 are you saying raven is poor? [EDIT] let me put this another way: what is envolved in making these decisions? money? raven shouldn't be the poor. I'm saying that Raven doesn't have infinite funds, and I think you underestimate the costs of new engines and development time. In the case of JA, Lucasarts went to Raven and offered them a contract to build a game with a specified budget and timeframe. Raven decides to either take it and thus make money (and allow developers the fun of working on a Star Wars game), or pass and not make money. They take it the deal. Originally posted by ig64 time? why rush it? Lucasarts likely specified a time, so Raven had to deal with that. Lucasarts probably specified a time for exactly the reason you are complaining about. Either they wait another 3 or 4 years for another game, or they make one now using existing technology. If they go with option 2, which they did, they can't wait forever, because who's going to want to play a Quake III game in 2 years? So there is pressure to get a game out sooner rather than later. Not only that, but more time means more money which does not necessarily mean an equivilant increase in sales. Originally posted by ig64 take the time you need. But all the time they need isn't the way to go in a business sense. They need to make games to make money. Releasing one game every 5 years doesn't pay the bills. Employees have to put food on the table. The fact is that the longer it takes to make a game, the more it costs to produce. The greater the cost, the less likely they will be able to recover their investment. Extra time is not proportional to in increase in sales. Therefore there comes a point when the extra time and money invested isn't recovered. They have to draw the line somewhere. Originally posted by ig64 as you can see, i just don't understand the software industry, or why they can't make better games... Ultimately because they don't have the money and resources available to be cutting edge on everything. The more cutting edge you go, the more risk is involved. Companies need to make a little profit, or else the company goes out of business, which means no games. This does not make them evil. But they aren't charities either. It is a business like any other. But don't confuse wanting to make money with greed and not caring about the customer. Most developers at Raven lived out their dream working on a Star Wars game. They want to make a great game, and they want players to have fun. But they want to eat too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 ONE game with ONE new engine that they can re-use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtropolis Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 good to see im not the only one. I peaked at the movies to KOTOR. Im gonna by it right away for my xbox. Those saberfights looks so sweet! And yes, why not make some of the saberfights partially computer generated? Like share the controll with the computer. I would have been cool. At least for me, since the coolest aspect for me personally, in starwars is the LightSabers. And the Jedi and sith`s. So the project one guy mentioned, open jedi something. It sounded great. Lookin forward to try that out And BTW? Why isnt characters like, Han solo, leia, Darth Vader, Darth Maul, dooku and all the other important figures in the starwars universe, included in the MP part of either Jedi Outcast or Academy? I know this is goin on after the old films, but they could still put those characters into the MP section. With new sounds, and not just the cheshire vader models three quotes from the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapNut Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 its a game, you dont phisically have the force or using hands on, so its a bit impossible for a game to make anything but *slash slash swing swing*, its the best they can do, have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.