RigoR_MortiS Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 The yellow and heavy DFAs. Most of you will agree that they are practically useless, or I am such an idiot that cannot see their uber uses. Yellow DFA, or flip was an actually useful move in JO, being pivotable made it require some skill to utilize efficiently. Well, ARE there anybody who can understand the motive behind the design desicion to screw the flip?!? Beats me. Heavy DFA was very powerful, but made SO FFA's a DFA fest, so I can understand that change. But making it a completely idiotic move with no use? That's a bit extreme I think.. Don't go "This is a new Game, New Rules Apply!", we know where that line of thought will go thank you very much.. ps: If you know of any use of DFAs, please enlighten us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Misery Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I don't really have a beef with the yellow/red DFA change in JA. They do require a hefty dose of precision timing to pull off effectively and they're not as easy to use overall as they were in JK2. However, they do have their uses. I use the yellow DFA primarily as a counter for Staff/Dual butterfly or for Staff/Dual crouching specials. The Staff/Dual crouching specials (the "chopper" in Dual; the "twirler" in Staff) cause the player to remain motionless. Position yourself and execute the yellow DFA. The strike to the head from the yellow DFA will either kill them outright or knock their health down so low that any additional glancing strike will kill them. Yellow DFA is also an excellent counter for an incoming butterfly. Timing is extremely critical (I think the 3rd hop). Execute the yellow DFA in the face of an oncoming butterfly. Generally, your swing will hit the oncoming opponent square in the head. Again, instant kill or near-lethal damage. The yellow DFA for me is more difficult to use in a big brawl. But, if you have a cluster of players around you, it can be fun to swipe the heads of several players at once. It doesn't seem as lethal in this situation due to the unpredictable motions of the opponents. Also, it does leave you wide open on the landing. My best suggestion is to use it as a special move counter. It's much more successful as a valid move in that respect. The red DFA is really hard to use but, if you're good with movement prediction, you can really make it sing. It's like playing a game of darts with a moving bullseye. If you can plan the timing right by accurately predicting the movement of your intended victim, you can "meet" them at an intersection point and inflict some serious pain. It's not easy by any means but you can make it work. I don't recommend using it like the yellow DFA due to the positioning of the landing. It's real easy to get chopped to death by red DFA-ing katas or specials. The DFA's in JA are by no means useless. They just take more timing, patience and focus to pull off successfully. See you online! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I don't think it is fair to say they are useless. At least, I find myself using them from time to time, and they seem to be affective. I don't use them as much as some other moves though. The thing is, DFA was the be all end all move in JO, and personally I'm kind of glad it isn't anymore, if only because it was spammed so much. Frankly, I'm happy either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blankie Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 "My best suggestion is to use it as a special move counter. It's much more successful as a valid move in that respect." Or just do what everyone else does and use the light lunge. No tricky timing, just as good damage, and ten billion times easier to connect. If you're going for style points... by all means. Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigoR_MortiS Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Thanks Darth_Misery! will go try them! I don't have problems with timing red DFA or landing it (thanks to air rocket practise in Q3 ), I merely stated out it is not worthy taking the risk anymore, because the damage is pesky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Originally posted by Blankie Or just do what everyone else does and use the light lunge. No tricky timing, just as good damage, and ten billion times easier to connect. I find this a far more useful strategy. Plus you aren't leaving yourself nearly as open defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigoR_MortiS Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Yes, Lunge. A perfect counter, but yellow DFA is the point of discussion here. For a stylish counter, I will give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Originally posted by RigoR_MortiS or I am such an idiot that cannot see their uber uses. Ahem..... The changes with the DFAs were a nice change, because in JO, the only move was the red DFA, now, for you spammers out there, its harder. Live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Originally posted by SamFisher Ahem..... The changes with the DFAs were a nice change, because in JO, the only move was the red DFA, now, for you spammers out there, its harder. Live with it. I dispair at some people. You've spoken like a true noob. Gj. Duels: Never ctf: Essential for ragers ffa: spammed It was spammed in one game mode, it is needed in others (with nf otherwise rage is useless). ps. Learn to dodge a dfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I think it's safe to say that a move is useless if it is more risky and requires a whole lot more skill to execute than other more damaging easy-to-do low risk moves. I think they pulled a "Raven" and nerfed the DFA to hell. Something a little less powerful than the 1.04 DFA would have been great. Oh well...someone is always unhappy when stuff changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 The arguement for DFA to use force is that it stops people whoring. K. Lets just whore roll stab then. No pun intended but 'Thats So Raven' (*throws up after cheesy american shows*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzerian Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 yes dfas r useless red dfa should at least do more damage and yellow dfa ur guy jumps too high so u can never hit unless ur opponent jumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiaSowapit Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I dunno what you're talking about... I've had my ass handed to me more times than I care to remember by people using single saber, red stance in Academy. Its block-defeating capability is still formidable. In my experience: dual sabers = easiest for a newcomer to use & achieve success with staff = a little trickier than duals, requiring a bit more skill to use effectively, yet still easier than singles single saber = most challenging style to use, yet in the hands of a skilled player, often very effective As with any online game, your mileage will vary with latency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigoR_MortiS Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by KaiaSowapit I dunno what you're talking about... I've had my ass handed to me more times than I care to remember by people using single saber, red stance in Academy. Its block-defeating capability is still formidable. In my experience: dual sabers = easiest for a newcomer to use & achieve success with staff = a little trickier than duals, requiring a bit more skill to use effectively, yet still easier than singles single saber = most challenging style to use, yet in the hands of a skilled player, often very effective As with any online game, your mileage will vary with latency. err, you are right. But we are not bashing single saber, only DFAs of medium and heavy stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by Comm539 I dispair at some people. You've spoken like a true noob. Gj. Duels: Never ctf: Essential for ragers ffa: spammed It was spammed in one game mode, it is needed in others (with nf otherwise rage is useless). ps. Learn to dodge a dfa. I always use lunges and DFAs in Duels. Not the Red DFA/lunge (what's the difference?) though. Yellow DFA got me alot of kills in JO, but in JA you have to use it in another way I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiaSowapit Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by RigoR_MortiS err, you are right. But we are not bashing single saber, only DFAs of medium and heavy stance. Um, if I'm right then exactly what are you "bashing?" In my experience whilst playing Academy, DFAs are not only virtually unblockable, but frequently one-hit kills. What's left to complain about - that they are trickier to perform than in Outcast? Honestly, it doesn't seem to be an issue for the people I've been playing with - frequently 1st place on my server goes to a single saber user (and it ain't all katas or Force Powers). Clearly they're doing something right. Perhaps you simply need more practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigoR_MortiS Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by KaiaSowapit Um, if I'm right then exactly what are you "bashing?" In my experience whilst playing Academy, DFAs are not only virtually unblockable, but frequently one-hit kills. What's left to complain about - that they are trickier to perform than in Outcast? Honestly, it doesn't seem to be an issue for the people I've been playing with - frequently 1st place on my server goes to a single saber user (and it ain't all katas or Force Powers). Clearly they're doing something right. Perhaps you simply need more practice? I merely pointed out that in your first post, you didn't mention a single thing about DFAs of single saber, which is the topic here. You were right about your observations about single saber and other sabers. And I love single saber, that's why I want to learn the uses for new DFAs. Clearly red stance DFA has little damage, which makes taking the risk of executing that move a silly thing IMHO. The "No use" definition by Luc Solar makes sense here.. ps: I am a NF SO duelist.. so balance in saberstyles and saber types are of utmost importance to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunafish Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I never have a problem hitting with the red DFA, if anything it's easier to do in JA than it was in JO. The problem is the fact that when I blatantly slice someone right through the middle of their forehead and they walk away. I don't see why they don't up the damage on it back to what it was, since there are plenty of other moves and counters to spam in JA than there is in JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by Luc Solar I think it's safe to say that a move is useless if it is more risky and requires a whole lot more skill to execute than other more damaging easy-to-do low risk moves. But I thought a lot of players wanted the game to require more skill? So why aren't they happy with DFA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapNut Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 ill read it and reply when u can translate dfa for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRiot Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 *sigh* DFA = Death From Above Yellow DFA = Yellow Stance overhead flip slash Red DFA = Forward leap with vertical downwards slash. AKA most spammed move in JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by Prime But I thought a lot of players wanted the game to require more skill? So why aren't they happy with DFA? LOL! Yes...but it doesn't really work if they make one move really hard to pull off but leave 17 other easy-to-do moves in the game. What I wanted was deadly sabers and strong but manual blocking which is affected by the saber style used to block and by the attack the opponent makes. Oh well.. didn't get it. Tough luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiaSowapit Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by Luc Solar LOL! Yes...but it doesn't really work if they make one move really hard to pull off but leave 17 other easy-to-do moves in the game. You do appreciate that most of the "17 other easy-to-do moves in the game" have their own limitations? Many require the attacker to remain stationary for example. Furthermore, most can easily be blocked, so long as you're not trying to attack simultaneously. Red DFA is one of the few exceptions; it can't be blocked. You don't think a move that can't be blocked shouldn't require an exceptional amount of skill??? What I wanted was deadly sabers and strong but manual blocking which is affected by the saber style used to block and by the attack the opponent makes. You CAN have deadly sabers... it's just a matter of cranking up the cvar g_saberDamageScale (even Raven suggests a higher number than the default 1 for gametypes such as FFA). Manual blocking? Consider this scenario: You join a server with a ping between 150 to 200. I join the same server and have a ping at or below 50. Guess what? By the time you click your "manual block" button, my saber has already decapitated you. Your best bet at survival would be to hold down your manual block key the entire time you're wandering around the map. Does that honestly sound like an improvement? Manual blocking is fine and dandy if there's ZERO lag or packet loss between all clients. Short of LAN parties, when do you expect that to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by Luc Solar LOL! Yes...but it doesn't really work if they make one move really hard to pull off but leave 17 other easy-to-do moves in the game. True. I jsut couldn't resist Originally posted by Luc Solar [bWhat I wanted was deadly sabers [/b] I wouldn't mind that either. I wish more servers had the damage scale increased... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethsaint Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I find the Red DFA useful for tearing up Kata spammers. At the very end of a Kata your opponent can't move and timed correctly timing you'll hit him smack down the middle of his skull - The only thing that really disappoints me is the fact it hardly does any damage... Or so it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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