Dance Commander Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I think a big problem here, is that the point of the thread has disappeared. Which engine do you think would be best for JK4? And until we see complete finished versions on our own pc's, we'll never know. Doom 3 is nothing more than a performance of what the engine can do, thus the lack of any real plot/script/depth. The requirements of Doom 3/HL 2 don't really come into any really point here, because by the time JK4 is out, a new breed of cards will surely have come out utilising the PCI express system along with cheaper 64bit processors etc blah blah blah... Wait til next year when all these new engines are out before a decent judgement can be made, that isn't based on hype, video's (which are undoubtably polished) and pictures. Play it on your own PC then judge. People who comment about Halo's vehicles etc, remember.... HALO IS A CONSOLE GAME. Any conversion of console to Pc is better, but only in graphics and a few bonus weapons etc. Otherwise console gamers get pissed and EA makes no money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Well, I think it goes without saying this thread is total speculation But you're right, we kind of ventured off topic, so, anyone else new viewing this, that has an opinion on what information we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by Dance Commander Doom 3 is nothing more than a performance of what the engine can do, thus the lack of any real plot/script/depth. Eh, I don't think you can really say that without playing the game. You're only going on speculation based on id's past games. They've said it's an actual game this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Well, judging by the poll, people are obviously swinging in favour of Source or D3 tech. Whether that's because they think the engines have the capability, or are simply buying into the hype around the two games currently being developed on them, is not very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 It's funny though, doom 3 tech specs have not been released so it's almost certainly the screenshots/hype/leaked alpha. Half-Life 2 tech specs have been released, and it has a pretty full leaked beta out. I'm still looking forward to far cry, thanks to the detail combined with the huge enviroments, I think it would mix the level of detail (of course, this is all assuming that they do a good job with models and other resources etc...) and the large enviroments of star wars very well. Think about a massive hoth, one that isn't in a snow storm The X-Ray engine (Stalker) also has these features, but it doesn't seem to have the same view distance, and it doesn't look like it uses heightmaps, just normal BSP/whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance Commander Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Okay, the real truth is that it doesnt matter. All three/four engines (i lost count) kick ass in their own way and would surely take us closer to the ultimate Jedi Game. Eh, I don't think you can really say that without playing the game. You're only going on speculation based on id's past games. They've said it's an actual game this time. Serious Sam was a game too, but all you did was shoot stuff, al a Doom 1, Doom 2, Quake, Q2, Q3. Sounds promising. On another note, when you think about it, JK4 will not be for a veeerrrry long time. You think Mr Lucas will want us playing games that are based on the expanded Star Wars universe... or will he want us playing "Super Super Bombard Racing: Episode 3 Edition"? God i hope not... The only possible way JK4 could happen, is if its set around the time frame of Episiode 3. But anyway, by the time thats died down, we'll be lookin at Q8 or HL6 which will probably require 1342gb Geforce8 graphics card and 213897237404Mhz processors. Maybe i exagerate a little, but you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by Dance Commander On another note, when you think about it, JK4 will not be for a veeerrrry long time. You think Mr Lucas will want us playing games that are based on the expanded Star Wars universe... or will he want us playing "Super Super Bombard Racing: Episode 3 Edition"? God i hope not... The only possible way JK4 could happen, is if its set around the time frame of Episiode 3. But anyway, by the time thats died down, we'll be lookin at Q8 or HL6 which will probably require 1342gb Geforce8 graphics card and 213897237404Mhz processors. Maybe i exagerate a little, but you get the point. Huh? I don't follow your logic...Jedi Knight II came out at the same time as Episode II... And as for Doom 3's story...John Carmack isn't one to waste time and resources on things which aren't needed...but id hired a sci-fi author to write the script for Doom 3. I rather doubt John Carmack would allow that if the story was just going to be another generic story such as in past Doom/Quake games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 you kids need to remember that the engine does not make the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 It sure helps, long view distance really helps the game. Physics, depending on the game, can make a huge difference. Hopefully JK4 will have some more neutral NPCs in it, it needs more of an atmosphere IMHO... Engine can change the game big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-(- -)-Pyro Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 raven should probably just not make jk4 i already lost my lunch w/jk3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by GreenSmoke raven should probably just not make jk4 i already lost my lunch w/jk3 Have you tried the patch that just came out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maullaney Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I voted for HL2 for the facial animations. In the long run, the engine will probably be D3, which I have no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-(- -)-Pyro Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Originally posted by Gabrobot Have you tried the patch that just came out? 1.05 came out a while ago i didn't like it since they made it stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Originally posted by GreenSmoke 1.05 came out a while ago i didn't like it since they made it stupid Ah bingo...I think I know what's stupid here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isoparm Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 If it was between hl2 and d3 knowing lec, they would choose the cheaper one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Originally posted by Isoparm If it was between hl2 and d3 knowing lec, they would choose the cheaper one. You mean like how they choose Raven and the Quake III engine for Jedi Knight II and Jedi Academy, even though Raven is one of the best developers available, and isn't exactly one to get ripped off? Oh, I'm sure Lucasarts picked Raven because it would cost less money than developing it in house or with a less known developer, and not because Raven has so much experience having been making games with id's technology for the past ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isoparm Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I don't think Raven was the only company they asked to make JO. I'm sure raven bid the job and got it based off that. They used already existing tech they had for sof2, recycled models/textures and a few little animations, they busted it out in a year and saved lec dev money. Thats cheaper than lec building it from the ground up taking 2+ years paying all the devs yearly salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 They probably chose Raven to make JA because its basically an expansion pack to JK2 branded as a full game. Why make a whole game when you can slap some cheezy eyecandy (like 2 sabres, and the staff) on an existing game, along with a rehash of the same story, slap a $AU90 price tag on it, and sit back and watch the star wars nerds give you their money. It probably a little silly we're argueing over what engine will be used to make JK3 (cant you count? JK1, JK2:JO, JA, JK3), since none of these engines are even completed, much less having a finished game for us to look at. That said- I voted doom3 because the feel of the engine, with its strengths and weaknesses, suits the Star Wars universe better than the competition. HL2 is suited to more 'natural' environments (stuff like wood and water etc), while doom3 is better suited to industrialised locations, with lots of shiny metallic surfaces, and high tech lookin thingys. Far Cry looks 'okay', but seems a little brightly coloured and cartoony to me (real life really isnt that colourful, why cant game developers realise this? Less saturation = more realistic image) The only good looking thing is the ocean, and since when have we seen a jedi knight go for a short dip in the ocean? Never, thats when. On the subject of lighting, HL2 does use a stencil algorythm for it's shadows, like doom3, but its a 'soft' shadowing technique that still suffers from the problems of overlapping shadows that Carmack published a paper on (where he describes the technique he uses in doom3 to overcome the problem. I love carmack, he's not a guy wanting to make money off his talents, he's like a scientist of the computer game, he shares his discoveries). So as it stands now, both engines have directional stencil shadows, doom3's look perfect, HL2's are 'soft' shadows with overlap errors. However, HL2 is going in the 'soft' direction because a lot of their game is set outdoors, which makes it look a little more realistic. Anyways, enough of that..we should wait until theres a finished version of either of these engines before we jump to any conclusion. Incidentally, while doom3 has reportedly been licenced to make q4, we havent seen any screenshots from it yet. 'Source' has also been licenced to make the next Vampire: Masqerades game, there are shots from this game, and videos even, and it looks very nice, but lets remember static screenshots and low-res videos may look alright, but probably very different to the game you play on YOUR computer. And PS. Just a glimpse of what really can be done on Quake1 technology: http://industri.sourceforge.net/shotlg.php?img=ind030927a2&old= http://industri.sourceforge.net/shotlg.php?img=ind030927k2&old= http://industri.sourceforge.net/shotlg.php?img=ind030927j2&old= http://industri.sourceforge.net/shotlg.php?img=ind030927d2&old= These are from the Tenebrae V2 Quake1 engine mod based game "Industri", and represents what Doom3 will kinda look like when its done, but this engine is open source...anyone wanna change their vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Originally posted by Isoparm I don't think Raven was the only company they asked to make JO. I'm sure raven bid the job and got it based off that. They used already existing tech they had for sof2, recycled models/textures and a few little animations, they busted it out in a year and saved lec dev money. Thats cheaper than lec building it from the ground up taking 2+ years paying all the devs yearly salary. Why would Raven put in the lowest bid? They were already set up to make Quake IV, which will no doubt be one of the biggest games coming out after Doom 3 and Half Life 2, and yet they would except to throw together a couple games taking up a whole development team (Jedi Academy's was even larger than Jedi Knight II's...Jedi Academy had many of Solder of Fortune II's developers since they had finished Soldier of Fortune II) which could be making a game for another, higher bidding company? I don't think so. Lucasarts is not a company out to make an easy buck...what you're saying seems to show that you know nothing of Lucasarts, and the games they have released. There are very few games that Lucasarts has made, or published, which are bad. They've made countless excellent adventure games...not a bad one among them. They've made two great first person shooters and an expansion pack for the second, themselves. They had a period back in 1999 when Episode I was released, where they tried rushing their games out, and they released some tacky games...but the thing is, it hurt them, and they knew they had screwed stuff up. Since then they've pulled themselves together...where do you think Galaxies and KOTOR came from? Or how about Rebel Assault II and Rebel Strike? Or how about Gladius, a RPG/strategy combo game released at the same time on the PS2 GC and Xbox? That's a recipe for a bad game, especially considering that Lucasarts never developed a game of that type before, and yet it turned out very well...in fact, it actually did some new stuff! Now, do you really seriously believe that Lucasarts is just out to make money, and not release good games? Oh, and about the tech used in Jedi Knight II: Yes it was based on the tech that was used in Soldier of Fortune II...but the tech that was used in Soldier of Fortune II was based on tech that Raven made for Elite Force, which was based on the tech that Raven made for Soldier of Fortune, which was based on the tech they made for Heretic II. Jedi Knight II's tech works noticeably better than that used in Soldier of Fortune II...it was obviously improved on. The tech used in Jedi Academy adds even more features to the existing Raven tech...it makes perfect sense that Raven would build upon it's technology instead of reinventing the wheel in every game they make. Since so much of the tech was already present, Raven could get to work on the game content right away, instead of waiting for over a year until they've developed their tech enough, and they've learned how to use it. Oh, and Jedi Knight II's animations/models/textures/sounds/ect are not from Soldier of Fortune II...anyone with half a brain should see that that's obvious. I don't want to start any arguments about the Quake III engine or anything...I'm just pointing out that it wasn't out of laziness or greed that Raven used tech from Soldier of Fortune II. Now, please...I'm getting sick of ignorant Lucasarts/Raven bashing...just because it turned out Lucasarts was fully willing to release a JA patch, doesn't mean you have to go and dig up some other thing to complain about Lucasarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-(- -)-Pyro Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Gabrobot Ah bingo...I think I know what's stupid here... yeah... you, if you paid money for this p.o.s. game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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