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Basic Brainstorming: Saber Hilts/Glow/Blades/Sounds


razorace

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To practice what I suggested earlier, I'm starting these types of threads to have a specific area where developers can discuss what we think is the best doable system for certain areas of the game.

 

Anyone is allowed to contribute to the discussion but please be sure to be reasonable with the ideas, read the whole thread before posting, and stay on topic.

 

This particular thread deals with how we should handle the saber hilts/blades/sounds/etc.

 

Personally, I think the best solution would be to add the following features:

 

- selectable RGB blade colors

 

- selectable blade types - The saber hilt file would have an override if it doesn't have a blade at all (for solid weapons). There's also be a saber glow disable option in the saber files for the same purpose. You'd probably have a file to name the blades.

 

Since hilts need to be downloaded to be seen, if you don't want to see the melee weapons, just don't download them.

 

- selectable saber sounds - Saber files would have an override option for this as well (for melee weapons). The sounds would be controlled by a new file type.

 

- selectable blade length - There's obviously have to be some sort of balancing mechanism here. I suggest that the length of the blade would determine the number of skill points that you need to put into Saber Attack/Saber Defense. This could also be used to balance out the double/dual sabers.

 

There's also have to be a max blade limit. Probably something like 150% of normal although the minimum would be much lower (probably one or something).

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Here's how I am thinking it should go. There would not really be any CVars for console aside from the ones that puts everything back to the defaults.

 

What you would do is have a variable for each saber characteristic in the saber (.sab) config file. This would allow sabers like old bens hilt to have the same blade, sounds, etc; etc. that his hilt did in the movie. The variables for the .sab files would be...

 

saberType: SABER_REVERSE

The saberType variable is already coded, the SABER_REVERSE portion is what's new.

 

The Adi Gallia character uses a reversed single saber as her weapon. Lee & I did a bit of work with this in Duelers & the Tavion & Desann stances seemed to work pretty well with this concept. It would take a bit of tweaking & I would have to create hilts specifically for this but all in all it should be a nice addition to the project & shouldn't take that much effort to make happen.

 

soundBounce, soundHitwater, soundRainfizz, soundCatch, soundSaberblock, soundSaberbounce, soundSaberhit, soundSaberhitwall, soundSaberup, soundSaberspin, & soundSaberspinoff

These are all the various sounds that the saber config files do not cover but should, especially the saberup (saber swing) sounds.

 

Alot of these are multiple sounds like saberup1, saberup2, etc; etc. so what you would enter into the variable would be something like "sound/weapons/saber_jk1/saberup%n.wav" if this was the old ben hilt (the JK1 sounds are the same sounds used in the original SW trilogy). The "%n" variable would be filled in by the code because these various saber sounds get played randomly. Also, if there is no .wav file, the code automatically replaces it with any .mp3 file with the same filename. Again, there should be a CVar (in console) that disables all of this & plays the default sounds only; In which case, the user obviously has an option to use any third party sound mods.

 

Obviously if you did not enter anything in any of these variables it would use the default.

 

Example:

soundSaberup "sound/weapons/saber_jk1/saberup%n.wav"

 

Or you could set it up so the only thing you need to change is the path...

 

soundSaberup "sound/weapons/saber_jk1"

 

This way, it would save a little effort as far as the filenames go.

 

saberBlade

This would be the path to the saber blade textures, NOT THE HILT, the actual blade.

 

Example:

saberBlade "models/weapons2/saber_oldben"

 

Again, this would not point it to any specific files, this would only point to the path that would replace the blue_glow2.jpg, blue_line.jpg, blurcore.jpg, blurglow.jpg, green_glow2.jpg, green_line.jpg, orange_glow2.jpg, orange_line.jpg, purple_glow2.jpg, purple_line.jpg, red_glow2.jpg, red_line.jpg, swordtrail.jpg, yellow_glow2.jpg, yellow_line.jpg, yellow_glow.tga, & any other files that are used by the RGB scale as well.

 

Disabling the hilt specific saberblades is not the same thing is disabling the RGB scale. That would be a seperate CVar (FYI).

 

noBlade

This would add a new sabercolor which is actually just a transparent blade. This should ONLY be enabled for hilts that are sword hilts, or something similar.

 

Setting this to 0 would disable the option & setting it to 1 would enable it.

 

defaultColor

This is pretty self-explanitory. When you choose a hilt, it goes to this color. It should cover standard colors, RGB colors, & the noBlade.

 

There should also be a CVar for console that disables this feature. Some people might be pissed if they set their colors the way they like them & then this thing goes & changes it. The CVar for console should default this feature to off.

Originally posted by razorace

Since hilts need to be downloaded to be seen, if you don't want to see the melee weapons, just don't download them.

I like the idea of removing sword-type hilts. I did get a complaint about them before (of course, the guy was losing at the time). I think I might put all of the sword hilts in its own pack, however, not with the non-standard hilts.
Originally posted by razorace

- selectable blade length - There's obviously have to be some sort of balancing mechanism here. I suggest that the length of the blade would determine the number of skill points that you need to put into Saber Attack/Saber Defense. This could also be used to balance out the double/dual sabers.

I think this should just be tied to a specific kind of hilt like the Bustersword 2k hilt (which I have to redo because Chrono is a groupie).

 

Any of these types of hilts will be in the non-standard hilt pack. When you join a server you want to be assured that there is fair gameplay, you don't want someone using the ninja hilt (no glowing blade) then scaling the saber length up = ghey.

 

Making a CVar that allows the hilt to be very long defeats the purpose of the Standard Hilts pack IMO. You shouldn't be forced to play in that manner regardless of the server settings IMO.

 

Anyways, how you would balance it out is the longer the saber blade is, the less damage it can do. We might also need to make it so that the thing can be parried easier too. I saw someone else had made a Sai hilt, which I do like the concept of but it belongs in the non-standard hilt pack. The Sai's would do more damage since they are smaller.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: Another big problem I see with handling the hilts in packs like this is if someone does not want to duel with non-standard hilts, they will not use the non-standard hilt pack but the server & opponent both do have the hilt pack, this may cause complications & piss some people off, especially with longer bladed sabers.

 

Perhaps we should include some sort of coding or variables that prevent non-standard hilt usage if an opponent chooses not to use them.

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis

Apparently you have to add a line in the player.npc file: saber sith_sword

to get the sith sword to work in the game without it crashing

you don't need to edit the player.npc file, I've got it to work in-game with no problems aside from the glowing blade showing up.
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I agree with the additional sound varibles and the issue of saber length/disable glow/blade, but I think the sounds and blade should be modifable from the menu by default. We want people to have as many options as possible.

 

As for saber length balancing, what's wrong with different skill point requirements? It's more realistic than damage scaling and is less confusing.

 

As for noblade, since we're going to have to do code work anyway, it would make more sense to actually disable the blade rendering instead of just making it invisible.

 

Finally, about cheating/abuses, simply putting the commands in the .sab files isn't going to cut the mustard since even a monkey can alter the .sab files and the server isn't guarnteed to have the hilt. My suggestion would be to....

 

a) Make sure that the saber blades render the same size as the hit detection length.

 

b) For disabled blade weapons, just force render the blade if the client doesn't have the hilt model. If someone is cheating by altering the the blade length of an invisible blade weapon, the clients could just force render the blade.

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Originally posted by razorace

Personally, I think the best solution would be to add the following features:

 

- selectable RGB blade colors

 

- selectable blade types

 

- selectable saber sounds

 

- selectable blade length

I have plans along those same lines...I think it's the way to go. But remember that RGB colors won't be compatible with most of the blade skins that are made, unless they have a code-based convention to follow.

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Originally posted by razorace

Well, if you're planning on doing that system, I could not work on it and do the saber system instead (like my original plan).

 

You have a good point there. Since we get to set the standard, we can do whatever need to be done. :)

Tchouky has a nice format that i modified slightly - he may well have the first RGB mod out if/when the sdk is released.

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Just because it was done first doesn't mean it wasn't done right.

 

It's a matter of redundancy: Tchouky did it right the first time and was generous with his code; he'll likely do so again, do it first, and may be willing to contribute to your project.

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Ya, it's nice to have developers in the community that are not selfish pricks & donate their work for everyone in the community. Now I'm not mentioning any names *cough*Lee Oattes*cough* because that would only be something someone who is bitter would do; But they are out there. :-)

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Well regarding the saber blade length, I good realistic way of dealing with it is making the longer blade harder and slower to control. I know lightsaberblades have no mass and all but it would be for the best to assume they do.

 

I'd make them move like the red stance... like slow and cumbersome. Just like a two handed 6 foot sword, in medieval times they were used on mounted horses and on ground to BASH and keep enemies at bay. On close encouters that sword was really more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

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Well another way of putting it would be making all saber blade deal the same ammount of damage... then apply the hit location modifier. Make the yellow swing speed the base speed for all stances. Then make the stances nothing more that a style of fighting. one of the stances enables longer blade and the apropriate swings for a longer blade... logic tells me they would be pretty straight forward swing since the blade is too long to allow pretty swirls and such.

 

On another issue... why not getting rid of the stances altogether and create a move list... then the more points you assign to force offense and defense, the more moves you can pick from the list. So a guy with force offense and defense at max could pick from... let's say 5 or 6(example) from all the available moves for all sabers, and that could work well with them all as well(counting cartwheels, stabing rolls, katas, lunges, dfa's, kicks, punches, grapples, everything), thus granting a player it's own individual style. I can go as far as creating more moves as well.

 

So, you can select the moves as you would with force powers... now what... well let's say a longer blade DOES grant you advantage... then make the longer blade cost something like 2 or 3 times more than a move you could select.

 

I may be pushing the envelope here.. i wouldn't know... just throwing stuff into this thread so u can consider if you want to.

 

Cheers.

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I guess I'll speak up. I made the sai saber as a multiblade test.

 

If it helps these are the things I found out.

 

multibladed sabers can use any stance. ie:all 7. But only two at a time.

 

This includes if you can't even see the saber. I made a couple of multibladed sabers classified as single sabers but hid the blades. ie made them really small and overlapping the first.

 

This gave me the option of giving it the tavion stance and desann stance if I wanted. That is why the sai use the dual stance even if using only one.

 

Also here is a site catalogging all the hilts. Please email the guy if he hasn't given credit to something you made.

 

http://jk3hilts.evilzz.net/

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Originally posted by BloodRiot

Stuff

 

Yeah, that's a bit off topic. It belongs in a thread just about the actual Saber System. I'll go start a thread about it now.

 

Kenshire: How does the game determine which two stances you can use in multibladed weapons? The .sab file?

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Yep, the .sab file.

 

Here's the break down.

 

name //spawn name.

 

{

name //can be pointed at menu or put in quotes

 

saberType //saber_single,saber_staff,sith_sword *only used in single player*

 

saberModel //obvious

 

soundOn //obvious

 

soundLoop //the idle sound

 

soundOff //obvious

 

saberColor //Only used in single when spawned with npcs

 

numBlades //up to 7

 

saberLength // length

saberRadius // radius *apparently this can be -1 giving only glow*

 

saberStyle //any seven stances, only multibladed weapons can use tavion or desann.

 

throwable //0 or 1, turning this off doesn't allow kicks. Which I think it should.

 

singleBladeStyle //Any seven stances, used when multibladed goes to single.

 

singleBladeThrowable //For multibladed weapons.

 

brokenSaber1 //points to spawn name of first half

brokenSaber2 //points to spawn name of second half

 

twoHanded //0 or 1, classifies it in the staff category and puts force restrictions on it in single player.

}

 

 

am I missing anything?

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  • 2 weeks later...

hmmm interesting. Half these commands were never listed in the main saber.sab

 

{

name "Battle Axe"

saberType SABER_SINGLE

saberModel "models/weapons2/axe1/axe1.glm"

soundOn "sound/weapons/sword/draw1.wav"

soundLoop "sound/effects/null.wav"

soundOff "sound/weapons/sword/swing4.wav"

numBlades 3

saberLength 22

saberRadius 4

saberLength2 18

saberRadius2 3

saberLength3 12

saberRadius3 2

saberstylelearned strong

saberstyleforbidden fast

saberstyleforbidden medium

saberstyleforbidden tavion

saberstyleforbidden dual

saberstyleforbidden staff

twohanded 1

throwable 0

noWallMarks 1

noDlight 1

noBlade 1

noClashFlare 1

trailStyle 1

g2MarksShader "gfx/damage/bloodcutmark"

g2WeaponMarkShader "gfx/effects/bloodsplat"

spinSound "sound/weapons/saber/saberspinoff.wav"

swingSound1 "sound/weapons/sword/swing_low1.wav"

swingSound2 "sound/weapons/sword/swing_low2.wav"

swingSound3 "sound/weapons/sword/swing_low3.wav"

hitSound1 "sound/weapons/sword/stab_hard1.wav"

hitSound2 "sound/weapons/sword/stab_hard2.wav"

hitSound3 "sound/weapons/sword/stab_hard3.wav"

blockSound1 "sound/weapons/sword/block_low1.wav"

blockSound2 "sound/weapons/sword/block_low2.wav"

blockSound3 "sound/weapons/sword/block_low3.wav"

blockEffect "sparks/spark.efx"

hitPersonEffect "sword/hitperson.efx"

hitOtherEffect "sparks/spark.efx"

noIdleEffect 1

knockbackScale 1

damageScale 2

breakParryBonus 1

parryBonus 1

lockable 0

lockBonus -1

blocking 0

disarmBonus 1

onInWater 1

bounceOnWalls 1

moveSpeedScale 0.8

animSpeedScale 0.8

noStabDown 1

noManualDeactivate 1

}

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So this was hidden somewhere in the patch.

 

//===The following fields were added after retail version:===========================================================================

//these values are global to the saber, like all of the ones above

 

//done in cgame (client-side code)

spinSound none - if set, plays this sound as it spins when thrown

swingSound1 - swingSound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when swung during an attack - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

fallSound1 - fallSound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when weapon falls to the ground - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

onInWater 0 - if set, weapon stays active even in water

 

//done in game (server-side code)

bounceOnWalls 0 - if non-zero, the saber will bounce back when it hits solid architecture (good for real-sword type mods)

moveSpeedScale 1.0 - you move faster/slower when using this saber

animSpeedScale 1.0 - plays normal attack animations faster/slower

boltToWrist 0 - if set, saber model is bolted to wrist, not in hand... useful for things like claws & shields, etc.

 

//replace certain anims

readyAnim none - anim to use when standing idle (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

drawAnim none - anim to use when drawing weapon (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

putawayAnim none - anim to use when putting weapon away (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

tauntAnim none - anim to use when hit "taunt" (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

bowAnim none - anim to use when hit "bow" (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

meditateAnim none - anim to use when hit "meditate" (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

flourishAnim none - anim to use when hit "flourish" (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

gloatAnim none - anim to use when hit "gloat" (use name of enum in anims.h or BehavEd's list)

 

//optionally disallow certain types of moves and attacks

noRollStab 0 - if set, cannot do roll-stab move at end of roll

noPullAttack 0 - if set, cannot do pull+attack move (move not available in MP anyway)

noBackAttack 0 - if set, cannot do back-stab moves

noStabDown 0 - if set, cannot do stabdown move (when enemy is on ground)

noWallRuns 0 - if set, cannot side-run or forward-run on walls

noWallFlips 0 - if set, cannot do backflip off wall or side-flips off walls

noWallGrab 0 - if set, cannot grab wall & jump off

noRolls 0 - if set, cannot roll

noFlips 0 - if set, cannot do flips

noCartwheels 0 - if set, cannot do cartwheels

noKicks 0 - if set, cannot do kicks (can't do kicks anyway if using a throwable saber/sword)

noMirrorAttacks 0 - if set, cannot do the simultaneous attack left/right moves (only available in Dual Lightsaber Combat Style)

 

//done in both cgame and game (BG code)

kataMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they press both attack buttons at the same time (see list below for valid values)

lungeAtkMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they crouch+fwd+attack (see list below for valid values)

jumpAtkUpMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they jump+attack (see list below for valid values)

jumpAtkFwdMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they jump+fwd+attack (see list below for valid values)

jumpAtkBackMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they jump+back+attack (see list below for valid values)

jumpAtkRightMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they jump+rightattack (see list below for valid values)

jumpAtkLeftMove 0 - if set, player will execute this move when they jump+left+attack (see list below for valid values)

//NOTE: these "move" fields refer to saber moves that are defined in code. Set to LS_NONE to have the normal move removed, set to one of the following values to override the current move

LS_NONE - Do a regular attack instead of a special move (overrides the usual special move with a normal attack)

// Attacks

LS_A_TL2BR

LS_A_L2R

LS_A_BL2TR

LS_A_BR2TL

LS_A_R2L

LS_A_TR2BL

LS_A_T2B

LS_A_BACKSTAB

LS_A_BACK

LS_A_BACK_CR

LS_ROLL_STAB

LS_A_LUNGE

LS_A_JUMP_T__B_

LS_A_FLIP_STAB

LS_A_FLIP_SLASH

LS_JUMPATTACK_DUAL

LS_JUMPATTACK_ARIAL_LEFT

LS_JUMPATTACK_ARIAL_RIGHT

LS_JUMPATTACK_CART_LEFT

LS_JUMPATTACK_CART_RIGHT

LS_JUMPATTACK_STAFF_LEFT

LS_JUMPATTACK_STAFF_RIGHT

LS_BUTTERFLY_LEFT

LS_BUTTERFLY_RIGHT

LS_A_BACKFLIP_ATK

LS_SPINATTACK_DUAL

LS_SPINATTACK

LS_LEAP_ATTACK

LS_SWOOP_ATTACK_RIGHT

LS_SWOOP_ATTACK_LEFT

LS_TAUNTAUN_ATTACK_RIGHT

LS_TAUNTAUN_ATTACK_LEFT

LS_KICK_F

LS_KICK_B

LS_KICK_R

LS_KICK_L

LS_KICK_S

LS_KICK_BF

LS_KICK_RL

LS_KICK_F_AIR

LS_KICK_B_AIR

LS_KICK_R_AIR

LS_KICK_L_AIR

LS_STABDOWN

LS_STABDOWN_STAFF

LS_STABDOWN_DUAL

LS_DUAL_SPIN_PROTECT

LS_STAFF_SOULCAL

LS_A1_SPECIAL

LS_A2_SPECIAL

LS_A3_SPECIAL

LS_UPSIDE_DOWN_ATTACK

LS_PULL_ATTACK_STAB

LS_PULL_ATTACK_SWING

LS_SPINATTACK_ALORA

LS_DUAL_FB

LS_DUAL_LR

LS_HILT_BASH

 

//***these values can be specified differently for different blades (see "bladeStyle2Start" below for more info)***

 

//done in cgame (client-side code)

noWallMarks 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing marks on the world (good for real-sword type mods)

noDlight 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing a dynamic light (good for real-sword type mods)

noBlade 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing a blade (good for real-sword type mods)

noClashFlare 0 - if non-zero, the saber will not do the big, white clash flare with other sabers

trailStyle 0 - default (0) is normal, 1 is a motion blur and 2 is no trail at all (good for real-sword type mods)

g2MarksShader none - if set, the game will use this shader for marks on enemies instead of the default "gfx/damage/saberglowmark"

hitSound1 - hitSound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber hits a person - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

blockSound1 - blockSound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber/sword hits another saber/sword - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

bounceSound1 - bounceSound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber/sword hits a wall and bounces off (must set bounceOnWall to 1 to use these sounds) - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

blockEffect none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits another saber/sword (instead of "saber/saber_block.efx")

hitPersonEffect none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits a person (instead of "saber/blood_sparks_mp.efx" in MP and "sparks/blood_sparks2" in SP)

hitOtherEffect none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits something else damagable (instead of "saber/saber_cut.efx")

 

//done in game (server-side code)

knockbackScale 0 - if non-zero, uses damage done to calculate an appropriate amount of knockback

damageScale 1 - scale up or down the damage done by the saber

noDismemberment 0 - if non-zero, the saber never does dismemberment (good for pointed/blunt melee weapons)

noIdleEffect 0 - if non-zero, the saber will not do damage or any effects when it is idle (not in an attack anim). (good for real-sword type mods)

splashRadius 0 - radius of splashDamage

splashDamage 0 - amount of splashDamage, 100% at a distance of 0, 0% at a distance = splashRadius

splashKnockback 0 - amount of splashKnockback, 100% at a distance of 0, 0% at a distance = splashRadius

alwaysBlock 0 - if set, the blades will always be blocking (good for things like shields that should always block)

noManualDeactivate 0 - if set, the blades cannot manually be toggled on and off (does not affect turning the whole saber on/off, just hitting the saber style cycle button when using dual sabers or a multi-blade saber)

 

//***The following can be different for the extra blades - not setting them individually defaults them to the value for the whole saber (and first blade)***

//***NOTE: you can only have a maximum of 2 "styles" of blades, so this next value, "bladeStyle2Start" is the number of the first blade to use these value on... all blades before this use the normal values above, all blades at and after this number use the secondary values below***

bladeStyle2Start 0 - if set, blades from this number and higher use the following values (otherwise, they use the normal values already set)

 

//done in cgame (client-side code)

noWallMarks2 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing marks on the world (good for real-sword type mods)

noDlight2 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing a dynamic light (good for real-sword type mods)

noBlade2 0 - if 1, stops the saber from drawing a blade (good for real-sword type mods)

noClashFlare2 0 - if non-zero, the saber will not do the big, white clash flare with other sabers

trailStyle2 0 - default (0) is normal, 1 is a motion blur and 2 is no trail at all (good for real-sword type mods)

g2MarksShader2 none - if set, the game will use this shader for marks on enemies instead of the default "gfx/damage/saberglowmark"

hit2Sound1 - hit2Sound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber hits a person - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

block2Sound1 - block2Sound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber/sword hits another saber/sword - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

bounce2Sound1 - bounce2Sound3 none - if set, plays one of these 3 sounds when saber/sword hits a wall and bounces off (must set bounceOnWall to 1 to use these sounds) - NOTE: must provide all 3!!!

blockEffect2 none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits another saber/sword (instead of "saber/saber_block.efx")

hitPersonEffect2 none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits a person (instead of "saber/blood_sparks_mp.efx" in MP and "sparks/blood_sparks2" in SP)

hitOtherEffect2 none - if set, plays this effect when the saber/sword hits something else damagable (instead of "saber/saber_cut.efx")

 

//done in game (server-side code)

knockbackScale2 0 - if non-zero, uses damage done to calculate an appropriate amount of knockback

damageScale2 1 - scale up or down the damage done by the saber

noDismemberment2 0 - if non-zero, the saber never does dismemberment (good for pointed/blunt melee weapons)

noIdleEffect2 0 - if non-zero, the saber will not do damage or any effects when it is idle (not in an attack anim). (good for real-sword type mods)

splashRadius2 0 - radius of splashDamage

splashDamage2 0 - amount of splashDamage, 100% at a distance of 0, 0% at a distance = splashRadius

splashKnockback2 0 - amount of splashKnockback, 100% at a distance of 0, 0% at a distance = splashRadius

alwaysBlock2 0 - if set, the blades will always be blocking (good for things like shields that should always block)

noManualDeactivate2 0 - if set, the blades cannot manually be toggled on and off (does not affect turning the whole saber on/off, just hitting the saber style cycle button when using dual sabers or a multi-blade saber)

//=========================================================================================================================================

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