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Khier
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Just because a 13 year old orthodox honour guy, member of The Worldwide Church of Crouch Bowing is an admin, it doesn't mean its his server. Most servers are funded by people with jobs and I doubt any parent would pay over around $90 for what they see as a pointless computer game. Theres few people of the older generation that don't think playing mp games is a pointless waste of time (let alone money), and when you see arguements like this, I believe it does nothing more than solidify their arguement.

 

Agreed the honour guys shouldn't enforce their codes everywhere they go. However, just because a guy bows at you, it doesn't mean he's a total retard hell bent on gauging your eyes out untill you bow back. I believe the custom of bowing occupies the majority, although only a smaller circle make up this hardcore honour council. For the mosty part, I usually bow before a duel. I couldn't care less what the other guy/girl does.

 

My point is, its not the honour things that create the problem, they make the game more 'family friendly' (I would say British, but not wishing to add racial slurs :p).

The real problem is the crowd of honour junkies that get off on bowing. Therefore, the solution isnt to condemn the honour stuff entirely, but to just focus your disatisfaction on the group that tyranically enforces it.

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At the end of the day, the winner is the person/team with the most frags/captures/objectives completed, not who played at being the "most honorable."

 

If people want to stay in last place while they tap the crouch and taunt keys, that's fine with me.

 

I don't believe that all the "honor" players are young kids, but it should be pointed out that many are, because of the simple fact that they are more susceptable to the "peer pressure" of the honor d00dz and their evangelization efforts.

 

Additionally, there's a logical reason they are more susceptable and that's that they are new to the gaming community and don't realize that in the past, this sort of thing simply didn't exist. They just assume that it's how the world works. So it's not really their fault, they're just misinformed (dare I say "brainwashed") by the cultish attitudes of some of the "honor elite" folk.

 

I knew a few players who are very young and they play by my "no rules" philosophy and don't whine on my server.

 

The thing is, some people consider the "honor" stuff "more fun."

 

The trouble is, that they don't realize to others (like myself) the honor thing is "less fun." If they can respect that, then the whole controversy is solved.

 

Btw, good story!

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Lol, good story, Amidala!

 

This is how I handle the "honor" thing.

 

If it's FFA, I spectate for a handful of seconds or so. (that's usually all the time I need to see if it's an "honor" server or a "fighting" server. After all, if everyone's just standing around with saber off, it's a good bet it's an "honor" server) If it's a "fighting" server I throw the "honor" codes out the window and participate in a frantic no-hands-barred slash-fest. If it's an "honor" server, I'll walk around with saber down and will chat and occassionally politely chastise individuals who have no life beyond computer games.

 

As far as Duels and Power Duels are concerned, I always wait to see if my opponent(s) bows first before I bow. If not, then I don't worry about it and commence fighting. (I will say "good game" when it's done, after all)

 

For CTF and Siege, it's all about teamwork, and how can you help your team if you're just sitting around doing nothing? I play to win in those servers regardless. (though I will leave individuals alone who are standing in an obscure corner with the chatbox on.)

 

Basically, I'm willing to go along with the "honor" code if need be, but I'm by no means a stickler for it. I merely adapt to the different servers and have fun in both "honor" and "fighting" servers.

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Amidala, that was a good (and sadly true) story. It really shows how screwed up some people can get.

 

(Once again advertising my server) If someone is clearly new to the game, often we tell the person that these rules do not apply in all servers. These are individual server rules. But I know that not all admins are as nice as those at JK3Files. :(

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Indeed, Amidala, very nice story there.

 

I actually prefer a bit of both. Sometimes, I just connect to the ''honor'' servers, and watch people duel, or I simply talk to people, but I still fight.

 

Sometimes though, I also prefer just playing the game as it is supposed to be played. I just connect to any server, hack and slash people, and watch my score rise.

 

I get tired of the same thing easily (I'm like that) so this is why I tend to switch between these two 'life-styles' (just kidding ;)).

I used to be like that, though. I whined my ass off when I played JK2.

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Touching, touching story Amidala. The great tragedy of our time. I almost shed a tear wgen I read:

 

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

Anakin respawned and tried to fight, but his once-formidable FFA skills had withered away from too much standing around and chatting on the True Honor Jedi server.

 

:(

 

Personally, I don't see how any adolescent boy could enjoy bowing and walking around. I mean, most kids like Star Wars because it's KEWL. Most kids who buy Star Wars games buy them because they hope the game will be KEWL like the movies. Well, last I checked, Yoda didn't do a KEWL bow to Dooku, and Maul didn't use his KEWL taunts on Qui-gon. Yoda used KEWL moves on Dooku, and Maul KEWLy owned Qui-gon's butt (no offence).

 

So, I'm like, what in the freaking heck?

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Originally posted by Kurgan

...... is a stand-up comedien, famed for his sarcasm and grouchiness.

 

LOL

 

Are you sure you're not describing Unnamed there, K ?! :p

 

jus kiddin......

 

I keep getting that Carlin guy mixed up with Jeff Foxworthy, the guy who's made a mint doin that "you might be a redneck.." stuff IIRC (Im not from the US so Im not fully in the know about american comedians)

 

eg. "If you get pissed off when you enter a server called TRUE HONOUR JEDI and want to teach them all a lesson 'cause theyre all bowin and dont do things the way you think is right, then you might be a redneck...."

 

MTFWBYA

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Thanks to all of you who took the time to read my literary masterpiece and liked it:amidala:

 

As you might guess, Anakin's story came from my own experiences, but with one crucial difference.

 

Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast was the first online game I ever played. I came to it later than most, around November 2002. Like Anakin, I loved SP, and played my saved games over and over to practice fighting Tavion and Reborn. Later I moved on to playing against bots, and had countless fun bot battles.

 

Around January-February 2003, I finally got up the nerve to go online. Fortunately, unlike poor Anakin, the Force was with me. By shear dumb luck, two of the first servers I happened to go to were the oE server Cardassia Prime (later the Obsidian Empire) and HuntingWabbits.com. These were (and are) two great, classic, pure, true Free for All servers. They were Full Force, Full Weapon, no "honor code" servers populated by pretty good players. I guess I was attracted to them because people were really playing the game the way the Makers intended it to be played, and the way I had played against bots: no-holds-barred combat. Of course, being a newbie, I was completely outclassed, but I was in awe of the good players I encountered there. I would go to spectator and follow the leaders to try and learn their secrets. I remember wondering "how does oE|EidolonJM move so fast doing that hopping maneuver?" (strafe jumping).

 

With Cardassia Prime and HuntingWabbits.com serving as my "frame of referrence", I eventually checked out some other servers. I would sort servers by ping and then go to the "Free for All" servers with the most players, expecting to see more great combat and players, as I had experienced at my two fav servers. I was generally appalled by what I saw. Often I would go to supposedly-busy "Free for All" servers and find a bunch of people sitting or standing around, not doing much. Some people would try to get some action going, but would suddenly disappear (get kicked). I think I even got kicked, but I didn't know what had happened.

 

Other times I would go to other servers and find people trying to play. I remember going to a server and watching from spectator, as I usually did when I went to a new server. Someone was trying to play, but he suddenly collapsed as if paralyzed, and some other player with a double-bladed lightsaber was standing over him lecturing him about something. I also saw some people who looked like they were being choked as they were being yelled at. There seemed to be as many of these "police officers" as there were players. People seemed very timid and inhibited, as if they were terrified of doing something wrong and being punished for it. It was a vision of online hell. I never left spectator and I never went back to those places.

 

As much as I loved gunning on Cardassia and HuntingWabbits, I was disappointed with the lightsabers. Of course, coming late to the game I had only known the 1.04 patch with its nerfed-to-near-useless lightsabers. The lightsabers seemed only good for defense, and that didn't seem right to me. I discovered how to increase lightsaber damage, and that was way more fun and "realistic" for me, but I couldn't find any servers set up like that. Even though I had zero knowledge or experience running a server (remember, JKII:JO was my first online game), in March 2003 I decided to run a server from my home and called it Chop Shop. It was like my two fav servers in spirit and attitude, but with stronger lightsabers. It was then that I discovered I was better at running servers than I was at playing on them. (It was a real thrill when some of the players I had seen on Cardassia and HuntingWabbits started coming to my servers). But that's another story, and this post is already long enough. I will always be grateful there were servers like Cardassia Prime and HuntingWabbits where the spirit of true Free for All was kept alive in an otherwise bleak, oppressive, depressing server galaxy. Otherwise, I might have ended up as Anakin did in my story *shudders*

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Guest Novelle Tion

The rational, mature players make up a minority in a gaming community?

 

Who'd have thunk it?

 

If you can't join a random server and expect a good game, what is this world coming to? <------ Sarcasm

 

Played any other popular online FPSes lately? Or in the past few years? Cheating, spawn-camping, homophobia, insults, and all other exploits and general nastiness capable of happening will happen online, especially in FPSes; this comes standard with the demographic and/or anonymous nature of the internet.

 

Although the internet is globalizing the things we do as never before, your problem here is still textbook sociology 101. You aren't going to change anything by moaning on a message board and expecting things to change 'just because they should.' Some of you here should know better than that.

 

Why do you do this to yourselves? It seems almost masochistic at times. Inquisitive minds want to know.

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Originally posted by Novelle Tion

 

Why do you do this to yourselves? It seems almost masochistic at times. Inquisitive minds want to know.

 

Because when it works, it is some of the most fun I've had.

 

I've been playing online since Quake, at all levels. I put in my dues as a newb on a 33.6K modem in Quakeworld FFA. There were some servers that were furious, all out fragging fun. Quite a comraderie was born with the folks who frequented those servers too, and I still know many of those folks, almost 5 years later.

 

But man, is there some poor behaviour, and whiney kids, out there. I'm playing JA as a female character, and I had no idea how much abuse gets lashed out (especially if you beat folks). My respect for the women out there who play as females has grown tremendously.

 

I'm playing duel almost exclusively these days, and the new things folks think of to yell at me is astounding. The latest one was how the "silly b*tch should stop running around". Um, should I just STAND THERE AND LET YOU HIT ME? *shakes head* Unbelievable.

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Originally posted by Novelle Tion

You aren't going to change anything by moaning on a message board and expecting things to change 'just because they should.' Some of you here should know better than that.

 

Why do you do this to yourselves? It seems almost masochistic at times. Inquisitive minds want to know.

 

Ever hear about the theory that a butterfly flapping its wings in the Indonesian jungle can set off a chain of events that changes the weather in Indiana? No? How about the old saying: for the want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For the want of a shoe the horse was lost. For the want of a horse, a rider was lost. For the want of a rider the battle was lost. And because the battle was lost, the war was lost.

 

Look what happened when a piece of foam insulation hit the wing of the space shuttle Columbia. Sometimes small things can have large effects.

 

The postings here by Luc Solar, FK | unnamed, Rad Blackrose, Rumor, Kurgan, Prime, and many others, and even the opposing viewpoints of Coraith, Master William, TK8252MJL and others have had a profound effect on the way I look at the game and the way I run my servers. And because literally hundreds if not thousands of players from all over the world have spent time playing on my servers during the past eight months, the postings on this forum have affected the way many, many people have played and enjoyed these games.

 

Not bad for a lot of "moaning".

 

Minds can be changed. If they're open, that is:amidala:

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Originally posted by Novelle Tion

The rational, mature players make up a minority in a gaming community?

 

Who'd have thunk it?

 

If you can't join a random server and expect a good game, what is this world coming to? <------ Sarcasm

 

Played any other popular online FPSes lately? Or in the past few years? Cheating, spawn-camping, homophobia, insults, and all other exploits and general nastiness capable of happening will happen online, especially in FPSes; this comes standard with the demographic and/or anonymous nature of the internet.

 

Although the internet is globalizing the things we do as never before, your problem here is still textbook sociology 101. You aren't going to change anything by moaning on a message board and expecting things to change 'just because they should.' Some of you here should know better than that.

 

Why do you do this to yourselves? It seems almost masochistic at times. Inquisitive minds want to know.

 

I think I'm going to print this, frame it, then put the caption "Worthless Reply of the Year" underneath it.

 

Massive forum carnage. This and more at 10 o'clock.

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I thought I'd contribute a story of my own...

 

This is a story about how some of you competetive players can be as bad as the honor players. The name of the player will not be revielded.

 

So this guy came in the JK3Files Server, and started playing the traditional style FFA, where you just attack everyone. I was the only admin in at the time. I started getting complaints of the player laming and chat killing. So I had to check it out. To my suprise, there he was... Laming me! So I showed my rule binds to him. Then some other player started to attack him and lured him away from me. So he has now seen the rules, so I expect him to obey them. I started to hear more complaints against him. I told him:

 

"we dont like to be attacked if our saber is turned off"

 

"Saber turned off = dont attack us! this is NOT a traditional FFA!"

 

He then responded by saying:

 

"Well I like to attack you and I dont acre about your gay code"

 

I put up my language rule bind. 'Gay' is not allowed there.

 

He then said:

 

"So I DONT CAYA"

 

"I DO WHAT I WANT"

 

So he has no respect for the rules or the people in it. So I used good ol' rcon.

 

The entire server cheered his kick.

 

Guys, please, respect the server rules.

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Guest Novelle Tion
Ever hear about the theory that a butterfly flapping its wings in the Indonesian jungle can set off a chain of events that changes the weather in Indiana? No? How about the old saying: for the want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For the want of a shoe the horse was lost. For the want of a horse, a rider was lost. For the want of a rider the battle was lost. And because the battle was lost, the war was lost.

 

Look what happened when a piece of foam insulation hit the wing of the space shuttle Columbia. Sometimes small things can have large effects.

 

I've most certainly heard of this. Anyone that wants a better example of this kind of thinking need only watch Run Lola Run, it's evidenced quite poignantly there as the movie's main theme. That's not very useful in this argument, though, because the long list of simulatenous, interwoven factors that produce a given situation are much, much too complex to be precisely charted in cases like these.

 

Okay, Yes, :rolleyes: I'll admit that a small something you or anyone else here does, could, when combined with a mesh of a mind-boggling number of other things, produce a dramatic change in the community. This would be impossible to calculate and prove, however, without an extreme amount of over simplication simplified (read: erroneously) to prove your point. It would likely be pure happenstance. If I have to, I'll demonstrate this.

 

The postings here by Luc Solar, FK | unnamed, Rad Blackrose, Rumor, Kurgan, Prime, and many others, and even the opposing viewpoints of Coraith, Master William, TK8252MJL and others have had a profound effect on the way I look at the game and the way I run my servers. And because literally hundreds if not thousands of players from all over the world have spent time playing on my servers during the past eight months, the postings on this forum have affected the way many, many people have played and enjoyed these games.

 

Not bad for a lot of "moaning".

 

But not very good, either, at least per the the problem being dicussed here. I would say you dramatically overstate your own importance. The main issue here is the composition of the community at large, which, at least as identified by many of these people, features a majority of bow-obsessed assclowns. Either your efforts are precise and/or massive enough to be linked in a seriess of events to reduction of these players in the overall community or they aren't.

 

Or to put it another way: Do or do not. There is no try. Reapeted messageboard moaning definitely falls in the later category.

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I'm not sure you can call that rude person a "competitive" player unless you know for a fact that they participate in organized ladder competition. He was clearly in the category of "a-hole" however. It's not fair to call a random a-hole a "competitive" player (although I suspect that most competitive players will concede that a few of their fellow competitive players are in fact also a-holes).

 

In my opinion, however, someone who says "saber down = peace" or "lamer" is by definition a follower of an "honor code" of some type and is instantly recognizable as such.

 

You did your job well TK, exactly as your duty required of you.

 

Isn't it annoying when people try to impose their way of thinking on your server? Now you know how I feel when people come to my server and starting cursing about "laming" and "saber down = peace, f***tard".

 

I found it interesting to compare your server's rules and the number of admins necessary to enforce them vs. my server's:

 

JK3Files Server Rules

 

Please read these rules very carefully. You will be held responsible for knowing them. The rules for the server are:

 

DO NOT ATTACK SABER DOWN OR CHATTING PLAYERS

DO NOT USE INTERACTIVE FORCE IF YOUR SABER IS DOWN

DO NOT USE OFFENSIVE OR ABUSIVE LANGUAGE

 

Explanations of these rules and additional rules are below.

 

ADMINS

Admins have the right to determine whether or not you have broken the rules. An admin's decision is final, regardless of whether you think the decision is stupid or not...You may be given a warning if you break the rules. Failure to comply will result in your being kicked, and possibly banned.

 

If you feel it necessary to question the judgement of an admin, do so via email to one or both of the head admins. If you harass an admin on the server regarding a decision he/she made, your disagreement with a particular rule, or if you cause any interference with an admin doing their job, expect to be kicked from the server.

 

Head Admins:

AmosMagee

ShroomDuck

 

Current Admins:

Atlas

Chrono

DarkOne

Jem

LadyNikita

Plague

RasinHeck

Ravage

Stealth

Tek

TK8252

 

LAMING

Laming will not be tolerated on the JK3Files server. Do not attack anyone with his or her saber down, period. Attacks include saber and force (and kicking when applicable). Any attack with a saber, including saber throw, is considered laming. Using force on an unarmed player is also not allowed. Yes, even drain and push and pull are considered attacks. If you attack anyone whose saber is down with your saber or with force, you will be kicked.

 

Do not use "sabering down" as a means of defense. By this, we mean, you are not to attack someone and then immediately drop your saber so you cannot be attacked back. If it appears you are doing this intentionally, you will be kicked.

 

Your saber MUST be up before using force. The reason for this rule is because if someone, without their saber on, grips someone else and throws them off a cliff, no one can legitimately attack that person because their saber is down. If you continually attack with your saber off, you will be kicked from the server.

 

Also, we do not allow "revenge laming". As noble as you may think it is, we will remove you from the server if you "lame lamers".

 

LANGUAGE/ATTITUDE

No offensive language. By offensive, we mean the really, really bad words in excess. Offensive language includes anything derogatory; whether it’s sexually derogatory or just plain mean. Words that refer to sexual preference used inappropriately will not be tolerated. Most words that you hear on television are acceptable. What is more important is whether those words are used in a confrontational manner. For example, “life’s a b*tch,” can be tolerated, while “you b*tch” cannot. Though we are flexible with some name-calling if the tone is obviously light and no offense was intended. F**k and s**t are NEVER tolerated under any circumstances, nor are ANY form of racial epithets, whether pointing to any race’s superiority or inferiority. Taunts may be mean-spirited, to a degree. If it’s too offensive, you will be asked to not use those particular taunts. Anything you say to make someone else uncomfortable will be met with a request to stop. If you do not stop, you will be kicked.

 

SCRIPTS

No scripts. If we suspect you are using scripts, (or any other cheats for that matter), you will be asked not to. If you continue to use them, you will be kicked or banned.

 

DUEL INTERFERENCE

No interfering with duels. This means, stay out of the way of duelists and do not try to distract someone while they are dueling. If you are in the way of a duel, expect to be forcibly moved by an admin. If you are interfering with a duel, you will be kicked from the server.

 

KILL TRACKERS

Kill Trackers (KT) are useful for some people for many reasons. However, the constant kill tracker messages in a crowded server playing an FFA can be a bit much. So we have decided to not allow KT messages on the server anymore. Please be sure that that feature on your KT is turned off. If you do use a KT and are asked to disable the messages and do not, you will be kicked. If you continue to ignore our request, you will be banned.

 

BANNED MODELS

Some models or skins have been banned from our server either because they're partially invisible or they have an inconsistant hitbox and/or damage model compared to the other models, giving the user an unfair advantage. Those models/skins not allowed on the JK3Files server include:

 

Half invisible Luke & Kyle

Jawa

 

 

Now here's my admin roster:

 

Admin Amidala (nowhere to be found most of the time)

 

and my rules:

 

LAMING

All kills are legal, don't whine when you die.

No suicide during Team FFA.

 

LANGUAGE/ATTITUDE

No racist or extremely abusive language, as judged by the admin.

 

KILL TRACKERS

No killtracker or other forms of spam (chat bind abuse). Killtrackers can be used in silent mode.

 

Notice the difference in complexity and the number of admins necessary for enforcement. Does all that complexity provide a commensurate improvement of the game playing experience? Oh well, at least we agree about those twin scourges, racism and killtrackers.

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ACS:"Do not attack anyone with his or her saber down, period."

 

what if people r ryining the game fir you by runing around with their sabre down being idiots, if they do it too long then kill tghem to ghet them angry thus they start attacking you, then you start having fun, so the word 'period' shouldnt be aplicable in that sentance, cos there is exeptions.

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