Kurgan Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Not everyone has the team overlay on by default. That's true, and not everybody has Radar on either. But... maybe they should turn it on? Then they wouldn't complain so much. ; ) would disable it just cause having a 6 foot jawa saying WOOTANI! is ghey. Bah, go watch A New Hope again. Did you hate tall Jawas back in 1977? Then again we've always had tall Ughnaughts in JK2. People are so fickle... you know you can already just make it so everybody uses the same dang model right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 kurgan ctf is faster than any other gametype. you don't have time to look at them with your crosshair (which is hard to do colors don't show up anymore so you only have a split second to try and make sense of their name) and you don't have time to compare with your teamoverlay. =X= has always hated pt's but then again the clans that got used to them came out to be the top ctf clans. hex may be taking input but in the end its still his mod and anything that bugs him he's gonna make an option to turn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Hex: You have blocked your PMs and emails so I'm going to post this here... You sounded like you're associated with the xmod2 so I figured I'd send this heads up. Me and several other modders looked over the sourceforge license (and talked to the sourceforge admins) and JKA mods can't legally be on sourceforge. As part of the requirements for sourceforge, you must be fully "open source" which includes full commerical distribution possibilities. That is fully banned by the JKA EULA and ethical development rules. As such, sourceforge isn't allowing JKA mods and your project is at risk of getting bumped when they find out. From what I can gather, sourceforge didn't notice since whoever started the project didn't put down 100% correct data for the project description Anyway, I'm not going to say anything to Sourceforge since I understand that CVS hosting for mods is hard to get. But, if you have problems I recommend you check out http://www.freepository.com. They don't have the full "open source" requirement and has been pretty good for my CVS needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Rumor wrote: Kurgan ctf is faster than any other gametype. you don't have time to look at them with your crosshair (which is hard to do colors don't show up anymore so you only have a split second to try and make sense of their name) and you don't have time to compare with your teamoverlay. Which is why you use the team beacon. My point was that there are numerous was built into the game to tell what team a person is on, not just the hue of the skin they happen to be using. Hell, in Siege you can't even rely on team colors. ; ) I'll say it again though, if the Jawa model is such a problem, take two seconds and add the Jawa team colors mod that was made a long time ago, problem solved. Somebody just took the Jawa skin, gave it an icon and shaded it red and blue for use in CTF and TFFA. That makes more sense than banning it, at least to my mind. =X= has always hated pt's but then again the clans that got used to them came out to be the top ctf clans. Exactly my point. Obviously the makers of xmod/2 and the "elite sabers only ctf community" are not of one and the same mind. That's too bad (for the elite ctf community), they should start modding themselves to get the mods they really want. I falsely assumed that "=X=" had the same ideas, but I guess there's a bit of disagreement. hex may be taking input but in the end its still his mod and anything that bugs him he's gonna make an option to turn off. Yeah that's true, he can put in amslap if he wants as well. My point was if he's properly informed, he has no logical reason to make changes like that, except stubborn personal bias. The Jawa model isn't an exploit, and it makes more sense to add team colors if that's the problem than to ban it. In the meantime, there are plenty of ways to adapt to its use, simply through common sense use of already existing gameplay features, like the team beacon, radar, names, team overlay list, force seeing, noticing sabers/shield colors, etc. If I were playing a CTF match where everyone was using the Jawa model, I could still distinguish friend from foe instantly by using the team beacon alone in fact. Silly, but it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 In fact, what's the author's email addy? I can send him this link: http://www.pcgamemods.com/2363/ "Jawa Multiplayer Skin Description: this makes the jawa skin avaible in multiplayer without typing in console. i also included botsuport and ctf colors enjoy." File size: 462.24 KB Posted Date: 10-21-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Which is why you use the team beacon. My point was that there are numerous was built into the game to tell what team a person is on, not just the hue of the skin they happen to be using. Maybe, but the Jawa skin makes you only rely on Becon(best thing next to skin), Radar (no one looks at this in CTF unless things start to get slow), Team Overlay (who wants to look at the team overlay to find out if someone with the jawa model is on your team or not?) and crosshair color (in most cases you won't be able to put everyone in your line of vision under a crosshair). Hell, in Siege you can't even rely on team colors. ; ) Yeah but in siege the radar comes in use and any idiot can tell the difference between an imperial/sith/merc and a rebel/jedi. I'll say it again though, if the Jawa model is such a problem, take two seconds and add the Jawa team colors mod that was made a long time ago, problem solved. Somebody just took the Jawa skin, gave it an icon and shaded it red and blue for use in CTF and TFFA. At this time, xmod2 is server-side only and even if this was server and client-side the download would take a bit longer than it should. Why put dead weight on this? It's a lot easier to just make a cvar that allows the server admin to allow/disallow the jawa model. That makes more sense than banning it, at least to my mind. There is an option to enable/disable it and if the server admin wants to, he can add the jawa skin fix to his server. Exactly my point. Obviously the makers of xmod/2 and the "elite sabers only ctf community" are not of one and the same mind. That's too bad (for the elite ctf community), they should start modding themselves to get the mods they really want. I falsely assumed that "=X=" had the same ideas, but I guess there's a bit of disagreement. =X= does have different ideas about pull-throw and bad language on their server but they do listen to the rest of the ff/so CTF community, seeing as Hex made cvars for basically everything. If a certain aspect of xmod is not your cup of tea, you can just turn it off. It's a lot better and a lot less selfish of him than completely turning pull-throw off or putting the soon to come language filter on with no option to disable it. Yeah that's true, he can put in amslap if he wants as well. My point was if he's properly informed, he has no logical reason to make changes like that, except stubborn personal bias. Wrong. He's been listening to the rest of the community and everytime he comes into the =X= server he gets thank yous from basically all the players logged on. Like last night someone on the =X= server suggested that he turned off the auto saber sheathing after being gripped. I said that I liked the auto saber sheathing thing so he replied that he might make it so that after an x amount of seconds of being gripped, you sheath your saber. That's not what I call being stubborn and it pleases everyone. The Jawa model isn't an exploit, and it makes more sense to add team colors if that's the problem than to ban it. In the meantime, there are plenty of ways to adapt to its use, simply through common sense use of already existing gameplay features, like the team beacon, radar, names, team overlay list, force seeing, noticing sabers/shield colors, etc. I've already replied to this. If I were playing a CTF match where everyone was using the Jawa model, I could still distinguish friend from foe instantly by using the team beacon alone in fact. Silly, but it would work. This may sound hard to believe but if everyone on both teams were using the jawa model it would be a lot easier to distinguish who is who since you have to rely on team becon in this situation since you are forced to only focus on team becon whereas most players in a CTF game where all players are using different skins would mostly tell friend from foe by the skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div3rse.jello Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Exactly my point. Obviously the makers of xmod/2 and the "elite sabers only ctf community" are not of one and the same mind. That's too bad (for the elite ctf community), they should start modding themselves to get the mods they really want. I falsely assumed that "=X=" had the same ideas, but I guess there's a bit of disagreement. Don't make stuff up plz. =X= = old school They = personally don't like PT They = part of "elite ctf community" They = basically made s/o CTF popular with the life of their server back in JK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Can someone make these requests to hex 1. ground kick needs to be taken off, I can understand roll, but now with the new flip kick returned, people kicking back on the ground just takes away some of the skill when u want to finish with another kick to keep them down (remember jk2 where a good player can use throw and kick and keep another player down on the ground until they die) 2. I’m not sure I only played for 5 minutes but is the kick the one where u jump then hold down jump again and it automatically kicks on contact (similar to a wall run). Uj u know what I’m talking bout. It’s alright but personally the original jk2 kicks felt better and took more skill I think than the so called beta kicks. 3. PT lock should be a cvar to enable and disable the thing. PT could be disabled on default and enabled for other purposes. I mean this mod could be better for ff/so 1v1 duel if pt was enabled for ptk purposes. If some newb is on yer ass with drain and you finally regain to 100 force on the run, you will have a weapon to take him down (2 ptks and a lunge to finish). But otherwise you’d have to go pkpkpk or gk which is a lot less reliable in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel Buddy, if you were paying any sort of attention to this thread you would've noticed that I said this was an inside joke previously. Last Thursday I played on Kurgan's server as [R.I.P] God, Tesla was [R.I.P] Jesus, and Kurgan himself was [R.I.P] Holy Ghost. The Sam that posted in this thread will also get it, I was considering asking him to be R.I.P Apostle. LOL you could have just said "this is an inside joke and you are on the outside" well anyway, I think xmod could be improved if it was more customizable with cvars, maybe it is and i just don't know. I'm just wondering will the script detector throw out talk scripts? I think jk2 xmod detected mainly vstr scripts. I use vstr sometimes for stringing together alot of force changes and talk binds into one button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by razorace I don't see the point in reinstalling the flip kick. The only reason why people liked it/used it was becuase it was unbalanced compared to the actual basic saber combat. All about the combo’s man, it's all about the combos. Saber throw > pull > rotate > side kick > down toss the saber (after it has returned and you are still in the air) onto his head > front kick > snap lunge Stuff like that was just plain wicked, not to mention hard to do on living, skilled, *thinking opponents on the fly. But it was all possible in Outcast, that and much, much more. Try this one next time you fire up Outcast: Running side kick > as opponent falls away, center you cross hair and catch him in a grip *before he lands on the ground > bring him back in for a quick frontal kick and upon the knock back sway > release > pull > throw > kick Things like that made players who got hit by them say one of two things: Holy ****! Or WTF!? Now enter Academy and all of the nerfs... Grip > shake mouse around > let go .... Hot damn, some serious ball breaking moves there huh? Kick adds such an incredible dynamic to the game and unless you have a "let's see, what's the most wicked combo I could ever create?" mentality going in, you simply will not to see how it plays a much larger part than just a 20 damage double tap move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Master William Also, when somebody does a kata/spin/whatever move, you can easily interrupt it all with a JK2 kick. This turning the game into JK2, where katas and the new spins become totally useless. Heck, I kicked away a guy doing a staff butterfly on me William you just hit the nail right on the head and don't even know it. Outcast had one key factor that base Academy does not: Players who **** up and don't think before they execute an attack, have nothing to fear in Academy. In Outcast if you did a DFA you sure as hell better be 200% positive it's going to connect, because if you just "let one rip" you are in for one hell of a nasty kick in the back side (to be followed up by even more damaging follow up moves is you fall). And let's be honest for a second, all I ever saw in any and all saber only servers was people mindlessly letting Katas and roll+stabs fly and rejoicing when they connected with a solid object that was not a wall. So you have to think now before you hop around and twirl your saber all over the place? Well, to reclaim a phrase so many of you tried to take from us…. Learn and adapt. Learn and adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khier Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed Well, to reclaim a phrase so many of you tried to take from us…. Learn and adapt. Learn and adapt. That's my favourite saying to use whenever I encounter whiners. In fact, I should bind it since I know I'll be using it until either JA collapses or the fanboy empire collapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll Can someone make these requests to hex 1. ground kick needs to be taken off, I can understand roll, but now with the new flip kick returned, people kicking back on the ground just takes away some of the skill when u want to finish with another kick to keep them down (remember jk2 where a good player can use throw and kick and keep another player down on the ground until they die) Yeah I know what you mean dude but so far while playing xmod2, the biggest satisfaction I got was kicking someone to the ground, wait till they try to spring back up at me, move back and saber throw so that they jump right into my flying saber. 2. I’m not sure I only played for 5 minutes but is the kick the one where u jump then hold down jump again and it automatically kicks on contact (similar to a wall run). Uj u know what I’m talking bout. It’s alright but personally the original jk2 kicks felt better and took more skill I think than the so called beta kicks. No, they're identical or almost identical to JK2 kicks, man. No worries. 3. PT lock should be a cvar to enable and disable the thing. PT could be disabled on default and enabled for other purposes. I mean this mod could be better for ff/so 1v1 duel if pt was enabled for ptk purposes. If some newb is on yer ass with drain and you finally regain to 100 force on the run, you will have a weapon to take him down (2 ptks and a lunge to finish). But otherwise you’d have to go pkpkpk or gk which is a lot less reliable in my opinion. It does have a cvar already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 Jawa Model Yes it does suck the loins of George Lucas in team based games that have a fast, *close-range pace. I.E. Full Force saber only TeamFFA/CTF. In a full weapon game of either TeamFFA/CTF you could look up at the radar to see if that guy 150 feet away is on your team, but in FF/SO when you have a pack of 10 players fighting in a space of about 5 feet wide, it's just not a realistic option. I could say just using any generic model like Luke, then using the "force model" cvar would solve this, but it's just not useful in a realistic situation either. In FF/SO the nature of the combat is basically a bunch of people all crammed in the same *small/close area duking it out. Now toss in the constant blue and red color flashes from team energize/drain/rage and you can start to see how players don't rely on colors or icons in FF/SO team based games. I can say I personally (and I'm sure I'm not alone) relied mainly on model identification. I knew that /model rebel was break_dF, just as he knew that the /model stormpilot was unnamed. And while yes, the other team could use models we used, the color identification would have to come into play, but only in the case of 2-3 of the same models running around the map (1/2 the time the whole other team looks like kyle due to custom clan skins, so this was almost never an issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div3rse.jello Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 ahaha plazma said that to me too the other day..what a homo id rather have jk2 104 get ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by div3rse.jello ahaha plazma said that to me too the other day..what a homo I <3 u 2 jell-hoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed I can say I personally (and I'm sure I'm not alone) relied mainly on model identification. I knew that /model rebel was break_dF, just as he knew that the /model stormpilot was unnamed. And while yes, the other team could use models we used, the color identification would have to come into play, but only in the case of 2-3 of the same models running around the map (1/2 the time the whole other team looks like kyle due to custom clan skins, so this was almost never an issue). yeah. for us me and remij were always the stormpilot (2v2 partners), plaz was always swamptrooper (with those secksi shaders) and prime was always a shadowtrooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartaZx Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 jk2 get-ups were so much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll 1. ground kick needs to be taken off, I can understand roll, but now with the new flip kick returned, people kicking back on the ground just takes away some of the skill when u want to finish with another kick to keep them down (remember jk2 where a good player can use throw and kick and keep another player down on the ground until they die) But isn't that nerfing, and thus something competative players hate? I mean, it is more options for players, isn't it? I would think that this makes things more interesting, since players who are knocked down aren't as helpless. I don't see how removing this adds skill to the game. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with killing defenseless players, but where is the skill in killing them? Isn't there more skill in killing someone who can defend themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Well that's the thing... "nerfs" imply that the game is somehow unbalanced (ie: that some things are overpowerful) and thus they "need" to be "nerfed" (made weaker or less effective). I always got the impression that the competative community was angry because of "nerfs" (ie: what was fine in JK2 was made weaker, and thus boring/silly/etc). It's a complex question and obviously not everybody agrees on the best way to "fix" the game (much in the same way that nobody could agree on the "best" way to "fix" JK2, after all the hullabaloo with the patches). That's okay, people just have different opinions. Some people love the game how it is, some people want to change it, and the people who want to change it want to change it in different ways. At least with the tools finally available, theoretically everyone with the time and desire (and talent) can make their own version of the game that they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Don't make stuff up plz. =X= = old school They = personally don't like PT They = part of "elite ctf community" They = basically made s/o CTF popular with the life of their server back in JK2 Excuse me... I'm not "making stuff up." The people I heard complaining about the "good old days" being gone were the guys from the FK forums. =X= was only ever mentioned as being the "saviors" who were making xmod2 for JA, that would fix everything for Sabers Only CTF. Obviously LF isn't the whole community, so there's bound to be a lot I miss out there, but for their part, they were the "voice" of the disaffected elite community from JK2 in JA. Now you say =X= IS the elite community, and yet, they are the ones who want to "nerf pull throw" and ban the Jawa model, etc, why are they being criticized by FK members? I thought FK described itself as part of the elite community, ie: old school. Or is this proof that not all of the elite community agrees on how to fix the problem (as I suggested)? There's nothing wrong with that, it's just an observation. I just was pointing out where members of the "elite community" of old were disagreeing with one another, not saying that =X= were somehow outsiders that knew nothing. I considered them part of that "elite community" (otherwise they wouldn't be making the mod in the first place and getting all the support from FK), but maybe that didn't come across in my post. The only reason I'd bring this is up at all is to contest the notion that the elite community all were in agreement about everything and they all knew "what was best" for JA. In the end, the people making the mod get to decide, whether the rest of that community agrees with them or not, but that's ok, mod maker's perrogative. This is comparable to the folks (in JK2 and I predict the same will happen in JA) who want to make the game more "honorable" or more "movie like." There are large numbers of people who have these as their stated goals (If only this or this happened, the game would be truly honorable/movie-like... etc), but since they can't agree on exactly HOW to accomplish that goal, they end up making multiple mods with different solutions. I predict that's how this will turn out (unless of course the =X= team can have a big pow-wow with all the other elites to decide in council what should and should not be done in the mod). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG|Prometheus Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Kurgan, as pointed out several times, hex designs his mod so that for every change he makes, he also creates a cvar to turn it on or off. These clans were united over key issues such as returning kicks, however, they don't and shouldn't have to agree over everything. At the end of the day, it is certainly not hex (and his team) that decides what features should be turned on, but the server admins and tournement/ladder organisers. And the only way they decide is through going with the majority of the community. Well that's the thing... "nerfs" imply that the game is somehow unbalanced (ie: that some things are overpowerful) and thus they "need" to be "nerfed" (made weaker or less effective). ...there have been numerous threads I've read depicting how s/o ctf became pointless. Apparantly the flag carrier couldn't be killed, which would certainly indicate a very large imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 If XMOD for JA ends up being like it's JO counterpart, it will provide server ops with many options to make the gameplay more complex or not. From what I have seen on the =X= forum, Hex is very receptive to adding cvars for the things people want added and in such means, they can be turned on or not. That means having choices we otherwise would not have. That in a nutshell is why it is and will most likely stay popular amoung players and server ops alike. Just my .002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial_thug Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Master William I played the Xmod, and I noticed no difference in gameplay... Except that JK2 kicks are back. As long as they are not spammed, I'm fine with them. Also, when somebody does a kata/spin/whatever move, you can easily interrupt it all with a JK2 kick. This turning the game into JK2, where katas and the new spins become totally useless. Heck, I kicked away a guy doing a staff butterfly on me That kind of sucks, hopefully someone will adress that issue, balance it out somhow, I don't have the slightest clue how they would though. I'm all for kicking, but I don't want it to nueter every other move in the game. I like the new moves also, I just wish there was a move that can knock ppl down to set up combos in JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed William you just hit the nail right on the head and don't even know it. Outcast had one key factor that base Academy does not: Players who **** up and don't think before they execute an attack, have nothing to fear in Academy. ...So I suppose a counter lunge is nothing to fear? Don't be biased please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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