Master William Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Originally posted by Rad Blackrose IF YOU DON'T CARE FOR <insert mod here> , AND PREFER SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF <insert mod here>, THEN GET OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zERoCooL2479 Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done. Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for? Hee-hee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Originally posted by zERoCooL2479 As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done. Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for? Hee-hee... I second that emotion. Server admins considering OmNi Admin Mod or JA+ Mod 1.3 should forget those (unless and until the abusive commands get removed) and go with Jedi Academy Reloaded instead. Forget the imitators, get the real deal. Players should avoid servers running OmNi Admin Mod or JA+ Mod (again, unless the authors wise up and take out the abusive commands) unless they are masochists (people who enjoy pain and suffering) or sadists (people who enjoy inflicting pain and seeing others suffer). The All Seeing Eye http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html tells you what mod a server is running (if any). Boycott servers with abusive admin mods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 This is starting to sound like some sort of parent protest against GTA games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Originally posted by zERoCooL2479 As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done. Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for? Hee-hee... ACtually, I think you need to go a step farther and attempt to unite all the admin mods under one banner, perferably with OJP, but not nessecarily. Unfortunately, admins have shown that they are more willing to host admin mods over mods that pass on admin tools and do other things instead. The result is that many cool mods get left in the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I consider the following admin commands to be valid... - kick (easy to understand) - ban (same here) - kickban (same here) - silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc) - freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules) - rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal) As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Master William I consider the following admin commands to be valid... - kick (easy to understand) - ban (same here) - kickban (same here) - silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc) - freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules) - rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal) As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all. Finally, some common ground has been attained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by razorace Unfortunately, admins have shown that they are more willing to host admin mods over mods that pass on admin tools and do other things instead. The result is that many cool mods get left in the dust. Not necessarily true. I have two Disruption mod instagib servers that have no admin functions (unfortunately). I asked the author to add three essential admin capabilities: 1. Client IP logging 2. Moving the banlist out of g_banips to a file 3. Controlling the use of /kill (good for CTF, bad for TFFA) Multi-line MOTD is also very nice but not essential. He said he is working on an admin mod (yes, just what the world needs) and might add those features to Disruption mod later. There were a lot of really great mods in JK2, but a lot of them had the same problem: they weren't server-side only. In the real world, it is almost impossible to get players to download and install custom maps, much less download and properly install a client-server mod. Look at Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy: 99% of the servers that are running mods and have people playing on them are running server-side mods. As for OJP, it is very interesting and I am watching it, but it isn't at the 1.0.0 version stage yet. When it is finished, I might host it just so I could have Holocron FFA back (and I would also inflict JediMaster on people because I like it). xMod2 is also open source. Have you talked to Master Hex about contributing code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Check the server lists, how many run admin mods vs client/server mods? And I'm confused how the version number has anything to do with OJP. Admitedly, it doesn't have any admin enhancements because noone has some submitted any, but everything else works fine. I've talked to the authors of several of the admins and have gotten noncommital answers from all of them. But I don't think I've talked to the xmod guy because I personally don't like the elitst attitude surrounding the project, the cvar overload, abusable admin commands, and the way they seem to think that reintroducing old unbalanced game elements without balances is the l33t3zt thing ever. Those are the sort of things that I beleive hurts the community in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Oops, you replied before I got my edit in. See my edited post above. Well, again to repeat, the only really successful mods, admin or otherwise, are server-side only. That's just the harsh reality. I have made unbelievable efforts just to get people to download and install just one map pack, but few do it. Even with the "official" Bonus Map Pack by Raven Software, I had automated server messages every 15 minutes for 2 days: "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" Over and over and over again. Then last night I started saying "Bonus maps start in 40 minutes, make sure you have them". I did a countdown every 10 minutes, and then when the first bonus map started, I went from a full server with 12 people to a server with 2 people. Now if they won't\can't\don't download and install an "official" map pack from Raven, just imagine getting them to download and install a client-server mod. Forget it, won't happen. I tried that in JK2 with Dueler's Mod, a mod with a lot of great features and admin commands included. Lots of work and effort, very little to show for it. Bottom line: if you want to make a mod that will get used, make it server-side. If you want all the cool things that a client-server mod can do, you will have to accept the fact that few people will ever enjoy all of your hard work. P.S.- Go to the =X= forum http://x.fragism.com/forum/index.php and talk to Hex directly. I really don't think he is elitist at all. And he is bowing to the will of the people and replacing abuse commands with something better for the honor doods. I bet he will be the only "admin" mod author who will help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Besides, it's inevitable that those RPGers, chatters, duelists and FFAers are going to get in each other's way and then you'll have whining, cussing and call-vote kicking. ; p With proper administration, it's possible. And if people could just follow rules, there would be no need for admins or mods. The admin mods are created to handle people who have an issue with following rules. Originally posted by Kurgan LARPING in a first person shooter is a bad idea. Why? Because the game is not setup or intended for that kind of use. Take it to a place suited to role playing, such as an RPG newgroup, chatroom or actual LARP. Or maybe even an RPG online game (there are dozens out there, even ones that are... gasp! free!). There's even Star Wars role playing games! The Jedi Knight series games are great, and those RP games are no where near as good. Originally posted by Kurgan And are you saying that non-RPG players lack imagination? No, it's just that RPers want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for. Originally posted by Kurgan If they want to do it on their own private specialized servers, fine, but they have this attitude that the worlds owes them and they need to convert the world to their style of "play." Wrong... once again, not ALL honor players have this idea to take over the gaming community. Originally posted by Kurgan This is a first person shooter, not a LARP. This is a video game, not IRC. This is about defeating your enemies to score points, not show who is more "honorable." So who says the game must be played exactly how it was intended for? Please answer me that. Originally posted by Kurgan Or are you going to assert that only RPG players and "h0n0r d00dz" are in it to have fun? For most online gamers competition = fun! People can have fun in their own way. For some people, fighting in real competitions is fun. For others, honorable play is fun. Orignally posted by Kurgan When you're waiting in line for a duel, you expect the people ahead of you to play, and get their battle over with so you can have your turn. It's common courtesy. If they waste time chatting, bowing and doing elaborate rituals (ie: anything other than fighting) their wasting YOUR TIME. MULTIPLE DUELZ pWnZ j00!!!!!!!!!!11111 Orignally posted by Kurgan The "multi duel allowed in FFA" option is fine. I can see how that would save waiting in line, however the majority of "honor" servers don't seem to take advantage of this. Instead they make rules that you have to "wait in line" to fight. Also, multi-duels may be a fun feature, but that doesn't mean you also need amLaming or even an "honor code" does it? Where I play we never wait in line to duel. But like in this mod, JAR, amlaming was taken out. Commands like slap, slay, punish, bunny, etc. are not needed. Orignally posted by Kurgan I do saber challenges all the time on my server, and I don't acknowledge any "honor codes" nor do I employ any admin mods. Thats fine, you like to play your way, and I like to play my way. Originally posted by Kurgan Somehow I don't need those crutches and artificial rules to enjoy this bonus feature. Strange that some people insist they need them...? This is because you play differently than the honor folks. YOU don't need rules and admin commands because you have a REAL FFA server. Originally posted by Kurgan You act as if Amlaming, honor codes and Multiduels are an essential part of Admin Mods. They aren't and don't have to be. Amlame commands are BAD parts of admin mods. That's why cHoSeN oNe has taken them out! Orignally posted by Kurgan My thing is that if a "good admin" doesn't employ Amlaming, then what's the point of having those commands in the first place? There is no point in amlame commands. And I never said there was. Orignally posted by Kurgan And I know of admins who shun both honor codes and amlaming, so what's the point? All admins have their own rules, some have honor codes, others don't. Orignally posted by Kurgan Thus it's the responsibility of the community members to let Admin Mod authors know that these sorts of things (amlaming) have no place in the community, they simply aren't welcome. Well cHoSeN oNe has seen the light, but we still have to get those others to see it! Originally posted by Kurgan And it's the Admin Mod authors's reponsibility to make sure they don't put in easily abusable commands and they keep their source code private to prevent ignorant people from ripping off their code, putting in abusive commands and then releasing them for 12 year old maturity-level admins to abuse. cHoSeN oNe is not releasing his source code, I think he's doing a great job trying to prevent admin abuse. Originally posted by Kurgan Rather than letting them proliferate unchecked and then try to shame a few admins into not using them, it makes more sense to convince Mod Authors that amlaming and other abuse is unacceptable. I agree. Originally posted by Kurgan It's silly to give machineguns to kids and then assume that they'll all be good if we just scold them enough. Better not to give them the machineguns in the first place. I agree. Unload the gun first, such as cHoSeN oNe has done. Originally posted by Kurgan So help spread the word of the destructive influence of "honor" and "amlaming" and help keep this FPS gaming community an FPS gaming community, and not an abusive bully community where only "h0n0r d00dz" and "RPGers" are welcome. I've already started spreading the word to boycott abusive mods and commands. I've started right in my own clan forums. Originally posted by Master William I consider the following admin commands to be valid... - kick (easy to understand) - ban (same here) - kickban (same here) - silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc) - freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules) - rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal) As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all. Dude... do we think alike or what? And see, these are the commands that cHoSeN oNe has in JAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Real admins think the same Just joking there I think the bunny/slap/slay stuff are just for fun, not really needed. I would perhaps use such commands at friends I know(just to annoy them for fun ), not at some poor newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Master William Real admins think the same I'm sorry, I don't follow... Nothing new there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop Oops, you replied before I got my edit in. See my edited post above. Well, again to repeat, the only really successful mods, admin or otherwise, are server-side only. That's just the harsh reality. I have made unbelievable efforts just to get people to download and install just one map pack, but few do it. Even with the "official" Bonus Map Pack by Raven Software, I had automated server messages every 15 minutes for 2 days: "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" "The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend" "Download it at http://www.lucasfiles.com or http://www.pcgamemods.com/3378" Over and over and over again. Then last night I started saying "Bonus maps start in 40 minutes, make sure you have them". I did a countdown every 10 minutes, and then when the first bonus map started, I went from a full server with 12 people to a server with 2 people. Now if they won't\can't\don't download and install an "official" map pack from Raven, just imagine getting them to download and install a client-server mod. Forget it, won't happen. I tried that in JK2 with Dueler's Mod, a mod with a lot of great features and admin commands included. Lots of work and effort, very little to show for it. Bottom line: if you want to make a mod that will get used, make it server-side. If you want all the cool things that a client-server mod can do, you will have to accept the fact that few people will ever enjoy all of your hard work. P.S.- Go to the =X= forum http://x.fragism.com/forum/index.php and talk to Hex directly. I really don't think he is elitist at all. And he is bowing to the will of the people and replacing abuse commands with something better for the honor doods. I bet he will be the only "admin" mod author who will help you out. make your server, just the map pack maps. Did you make a mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL With proper administration, it's possible. And if people could just follow rules, there would be no need for admins or mods. The admin mods are created to handle people who have an issue with following rules. And if there are no added-on made-up rules (to speak of) there is even less need for abusive admin mods or the admins to enforce them. It seems to me that some of those who most ardently and at great length defend honor codes, rules, and admin mods are those who, like Soviet apparatchiks ap·pa·ra·tchik ( P ) Pronunciation Key (äp-rächk) n. pl. ap·pa·ra·tchiks or ap·pa·ra·tchi·ki (-ch-k) 1. A member of a Communist apparat. 2. An unquestioningly loyal subordinate, especially of a political leader or organization. have the most to lose from the elimination of an oppressive totalitarian system: those "admins" (really subadmins because in most cases they don't pay for\host the server AND have rcon access AND have FTP access to server files if it's a hosted server) who would lose their "jobs" and have to go back to being regular old players if there were no more honor codes or admin mods. For example, someone like this (sorry TK) Originally posted by TK8252MJL I just want to be an admin because it would be cool to have infinite power over people. Not that i'd be a power abuser, it's just that I want to be incharge. BTW, there are servers that are meant for all out war, so join those. or this (sorry Master William): Originally posted by Master William Even if they are, I am admin at that server (it's a gameservers.net server) so I don't have to worry about getting kicked or chased or stuff like that. Originally posted by Master William I do like it, but I've never seen such a complicated... yet whiny... community for a game. I see it as a fight- and chat arena, sometimes I just screw fighting and I just watch other people fight, and I just sit and relax in a corner or something. This of course being at the server I am admin at, of course. (This meaning all gameservers.net servers) Originally posted by Master William Hmm... Gameservers.net FFA (03) is the server I am admin at. (i'm an admin for gameservers.net), and it's the one i play at mostly I guess. Originally posted by Master William Nothing annoys me with lamers. It used to, in my very best JK2 old days, I used to run around screaming 'lamer! OMG!!!' etc. Anyways, what DOES annoy me with JA is when you have set your own server rules (or when I'm admin at the gameservers.net servers, which I am) and people just jump in and break the rules, even though I press the + key (bind + key say ^4Breaking these rules will get you kicked.... etc). Otherwise, I'm fine with it. Just hate the rule breakers who can't read the chat messages when it's necessary. Originally posted by Master William If they do that ''saber off'' trick against you, you should kill them for that. A guy at the server I'm administrating (gameservers.net server) .... Originally posted by Master William I understand how it is being an admin at those servers. I am an admin at the public gameservers.net servers, and heck do I get tired of telling people the same thing. Retards run around breaking the server rules, totally ignoring my damn spammage of the rules (I have to spam if they don't stop it), and I end up warning them 2-3 times. They don't seem to give a ****, so I kick them. They come back asking why they were kicked. I explain that he/she must follow the server rules, or get kicked. He/she starts cussing, and disconnects. But hey, even if you wrote it in the sky with smoke, they wouldn't understand it, because they would rather scratch their asses instead of looking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop And if there are no added-on made-up rules (to speak of) there is even less need for abusive admin mods or the admins to enforce them. What about language rules? We need admins to make sure that the server is clean and acceptable. And if people could just have a clean mouth, we wouldn't need admins to enforce language rules. Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop (sorry TK) ... or this (sorry Master William): You act like being an honor admins is something to be ashamed of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL You act like being an honor admins is something to be ashamed of. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop Couldn't agree more. Do I and Master William seem very abusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL Do I and Master William seem very abusive? Not at all, that's not what I meant. I am sure there were East German border guards at the Berlin Wall who were nice people (as I am sure you and Master William are) and who were fair and even handed and never actually shot any of their own countrymen who were trying to escape. Doesn't change the fact that they were helping to support an oppressive totalitarian system, and that they lost their "jobs" when the Wall came down, and had to go back to being average Joes (or Karls in their case). Of course, I am exaggerating to make a point, the most abusive admin in a computer game is nothing compared to the horrors the people who lived under Soviet domination had to endure. My apologies to anyone who lived through that or had relatives who did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop I am sure there were East German border guards at the Berlin Wall who were nice people (as I am sure you and Master William are) and who were fair and even handed and never actually shot any of their own countrymen who were trying to escape. Doesn't change the fact that they were helping to support an oppressive totalitarian system, and that they lost their "jobs" when the Wall came down, and had to go back to being average Joes (or Karls in their case). LOL, good one! I think I just got pwned... BUT... we're not bent on dominating the gaming community, we're just trying to host a decent (honorable) server. Arg, am I sounding communist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL LOL, good one! I think I just got pwned... BUT... we're not bent on dominating the gaming community, we're just trying to host a decent (honorable) server. Arg, am I sounding communist? TK, if there have to be honor servers and admins, I wish they could all be like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL The Jedi Knight series games are great, and those RP games are no where near as good. My point was they are MUCH BETTER for Role Playing than JA or JK2 can ever be. How many times in a Role Playing Game have you been "lamed" by somebody with your saber down for example? The fact is that in Role Playing games people KNOW they are there to role play, and so the "shenanagins" that go on the supposedly require abusive admin commands and honor codes don't come up. The RPG and h0n0r d00dz are trying to force a Square JA FPS Peg into a round Honor RPG hole. And while they do it, they're pissing off all the people who are (rightly) trying to play the game the way it was designed. No, it's just that RPers want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for. My point exactly. They want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for. That's the crux of the whole argument. And that would be enough, but then there is the fact that many of them try to force their unorthodox treatment of the game onto others. Basically "H0n0r d00dz" I consider to merely be "RPG lite." They want to pretend to be honorable samurai or role play being Jedi and doing nothing but duel, in non-dueling gametypes. They want to only die from things that look "cool" rather than from the messy, sometimes random kills that occur in a complex video game like JA/JK2. Not every kill can be 'cinematic.' And yet, if they get killed by anything but the most basic of saber attacks when they are fully ready and after much bowing, they cry "Lamer!" Wrong... once again, not ALL honor players have this idea to take over the gaming community. No, but thanks to the widespread (ab)use of Admin Mods with amlaming, this has gotten far easier. And thus a minority of folks continue to erode the very fabric of the gaming community with their nonesense. So who says the game must be played exactly how it was intended for? Please answer me that. The developers of the game (Raven Software) for one. LucasArts & Activision who planned, financied, liscensed or otherwise promoted and sold the game for another. And any player with common sense! If some smart person developed and "RPG Total Conversion Mod" for JA and everybody was playing that, that'd be different. But instead we get half measures like admin mods that on the surface look like the regular game, but in practice are used to enforce petty and arbitrary rules that kill competative play. People can have fun in their own way. For some people, fighting in real competitions is fun. For others, honorable play is fun. The trouble is these folks seem to be determined to make sure that NOBODY ELSE can have fun but them. (Guess which group I'm talking about? Hint: It starts with an "H") Let's use another analogy. Let's say some people like to watch television programs on their televisions. Other people like to fill their televisions with peanut butter. Then let's say the peanut butter filler people break into people's houses and dump cans of Peter Pan into their neighbor's sets and stage angry demonstrations in front of the houses of others demanding they put the yummy spread into their boxes. Then let's say peanut butter manufacturer's start including tool boxes with their nut spread jars that feature instructions on how to pry open a tv set and put the butter inside it. Television viewers, angry at the abuse of both a wholesome snack spread and the ruin of many entertainment devices, stage a protest against the Peanut butter junkies. They even petition the Peanut Butter makers to stop including tool sets and tv-buttering instructions with their jars. MULTIPLE DUELZ pWnZ j00!!!!!!!!!!11111 No argument there. The trouble is, it seems this is less focused on and the "wait in line while emoting and amsleeping" is the norm, even among admin mod users. Where I play we never wait in line to duel. But like in this mod, JAR, amlaming was taken out. Commands like slap, slay, punish, bunny, etc. are not needed. No argument there. This is because you play differently than the honor folks. YOU don't need rules and admin commands because you have a REAL FFA server. The trouble is, a lot of people can't host their own servers, and therefore they rely on us to provide them with real gaming servers, not honor or RPG servers. If admin mods with abusive commands continue to spread, these folks won't have anywhere to play. And it's a pity because if it weren't for them there would be no game to begin with. JA and JK2 were not made for RPG players and h0n0r d00dz. They were designed for FPS gamers who liked Star Wars! (*surprise!*) Amlame commands are BAD parts of admin mods. That's why cHoSeN oNe has taken them out! And rightly so, amen to that. There is no point in amlame commands. And I never said there was. Okay, I was getting the impression that you, like many other apologists for honor/RPG was saying that they were necessary to "keep order" and "make people obey the rules." If you weren't, I'm sorry I misjudged you. All admins have their own rules, some have honor codes, others don't. Right, but if the admin mods they use are setup to enforce "honor codes" by bully-like means, that's bad for everyone. Well cHoSeN oNe has seen the light, but we still have to get those others to see it! Agreed. cHoSeN oNe is not releasing his source code, I think he's doing a great job trying to prevent admin abuse. Agreed. I agree. Unload the gun first, such as cHoSeN oNe has done. Well I would say don't give them the gun at all. By keeping it closed source and not including the commands he's effectively done that. The only controversial parts that remain are sleep and (IIRC) stuff like mute, which can still be abused, but not on the level of the other stuff. So maybe he's giving them nerf guns instead of real ones, and that's an immense improvment. I've already started spreading the word to boycott abusive mods and commands. I've started right in my own clan forums. You rock! Btw, Amidala, your boycott post was dead on, nice job. I won't quote it here because this post is already way too long. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan That's the crux of the whole argument. And that would be enough, but then there is the fact that many of them try to force their unorthodox treatment of the game onto others. This is true. But remember, I've said it many times... not all honor players try to spread it like an iron curtain. Originally posted by Kurgan They want to pretend to be honorable samurai or role play being Jedi and doing nothing but duel, in non-dueling gametypes. They want to only die from things that look "cool" rather than from the messy, sometimes random kills that occur in a complex video game like JA/JK2. Hmm... not where I play. Originally posted by Kurgan Not every kill can be 'cinematic.' And yet, if they get killed by anything but the most basic of saber attacks when they are fully ready and after much bowing, they cry "Lamer!" Hmm... not where I play. Originally posted by Kurgan The developers of the game (Raven Software) for one. LucasArts & Activision who planned, financied, liscensed or otherwise promoted and sold the game for another. Did they ever say we *can't* play other than how they developed the game for? Originally posted by Kurgan If some smart person developed and "RPG Total Conversion Mod" for JA and everybody was playing that, that'd be different. But instead we get half measures like admin mods that on the surface look like the regular game, but in practice are used to enforce petty and arbitrary rules that kill competative play. Well here's the thing. As soon as you join an "honor style" server, you get this big message that pops up on your screen that will clearly state the rules. Now if someone would bother to read it, they'd know the rules, and follow them. And if someone disagrees with a server rule, they are always welcome to disconnect. Originally posted by Kurgan The trouble is these folks seem to be determined to make sure that NOBODY ELSE can have fun but them. (Guess which group I'm talking about? Hint: It starts with an "H") BULL****! Pure bull****. We play as we want, and you guys play as you want. Originally posted by Kurgan Let's use another analogy. Let's say some people like to watch television programs on their televisions. Other people like to fill their televisions with peanut butter. Then let's say the peanut butter filler people break into people's houses and dump cans of Peter Pan into their neighbor's sets and stage angry demonstrations in front of the houses of others demanding they put the yummy spread into their boxes. Then let's say peanut butter manufacturer's start including tool boxes with their nut spread jars that feature instructions on how to pry open a tv set and put the butter inside it. Television viewers, angry at the abuse of both a wholesome snack spread and the ruin of many entertainment devices, stage a protest against the Peanut butter junkies. They even petition the Peanut Butter makers to stop including tool sets and tv-buttering instructions with their jars. LOL! Okay, first of all, this is a terrible example. Invading someone's house to rip apart their TV and fill it with peanut butter gets you arrested. But ripping apart your own TV and filling it with peanut butter is completely fine! So if you're going to fill your server with honorable codes and rules you have every damn right to do so! But going into someone else's server and filling it with honorable codes is NOT right. Originally posted by Kurgan The trouble is, a lot of people can't host their own servers, and therefore they rely on us to provide them with real gaming servers, not honor or RPG servers. If admin mods with abusive commands continue to spread, these folks won't have anywhere to play. Ahh... kinda like communism ain't it? Originally posted by Kurgan Okay, I was getting the impression that you, like many other apologists for honor/RPG was saying that they were necessary to "keep order" and "make people obey the rules." If you weren't, I'm sorry I misjudged you. Apology accepted. Just ask Amidala! She can vouch for me. Originally posted by Kurgan Right, but if the admin mods they use are setup to enforce "honor codes" by bully-like means, that's bad for everyone. Slap, slay, punish, and bunny are evil. Originally posted by Kurgan You rock! You just found that out?! Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by TK8252MJL This is true. But remember, I've said it many times... not all honor players try to spread it like an iron curtain. Nope, not all but enough. Hmm... not where I play. I've seen it happen a lot. Did they ever say we *can't* play other than how they developed the game for? Nope, but a lot of "honorable" players come to non-honor servers and try to enforce their laws on them. You guys can play how you want to, but please at least clearly mark your servers. Well here's the thing. As soon as you join an "honor style" server, you get this big message that pops up on your screen that will clearly state the rules. Now if someone would bother to read it, they'd know the rules, and follow them. And if someone disagrees with a server rule, they are always welcome to disconnect. You can't guarantee that someone will read them. I've had MotD's up on servers i'd admin and they'd clearly state that whining is not allowed, neither is use of the word "lamer" or anything remotely related to "honor." Guess what? I still got little honorable jedi missionaries coming in and trying to preech their honor religion or whatever. BULL****! Pure bull****. We play as we want, and you guys play as you want. That's assuming none of you come onto our servers and try to make it an honorable server or whatever. And vice-versa. LOL! Okay, first of all, this is a terrible example. Invading someone's house to rip apart their TV and fill it with peanut butter gets you arrested. But ripping apart your own TV and filling it with peanut butter is completely fine! So if you're going to fill your server with honorable codes and rules you have every damn right to do so! But going into someone else's server and filling it with honorable codes is NOT right. He was referring to going onto other peoples servers and trying to enforce honor onto it with a funny example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by g//plaZma I've seen it happen a lot. Excuse me, not where I play. Originally posted by g//plaZma Nope, but a lot of "honorable" players come to non-honor servers and try to enforce their laws on them. You guys can play how you want to, but please at least clearly mark your servers. Clicking on the server info button in the server selection list, you can see if the server is running an admin mod or not. If it is running an admin mod, most likely it'll have some kind of code. Originally posted by g//plaZma You can't guarantee that someone will read them. I've had MotD's up on servers i'd admin and they'd clearly state that whining is not allowed, neither is use of the word "lamer" or anything remotely related to "honor." Guess what? I still got little honorable jedi missionaries coming in and trying to preech their honor religion or whatever. That's... pretty sad. Originally posted by g//plaZma That's assuming none of you come onto our servers and try to make it an honorable server or whatever. And vice-versa. Ask Amidala... do I ever spread honor in her server? Originally posted by g//plaZma He was referring to going onto other peoples servers and trying to enforce honor onto it with a funny example. Yes, I knew what he was saying. But here in the states, breaking into someone's house to destroy their TV gets you arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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