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Enhanced WIP: Saber System


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Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

The most natural place for the 'block' button as a Jedi, however, is the right mouse button. Trying to manipulate the walk keyboard button and the directional keys during an intense duel adds unnessesary complication...

 

Assuming you're using the standard wasd set up for your keyboard, walking is as easy as holding the shift key or tapping caps lock. I've never had any problems with doing that what-so-ever.

 

My point is that you could free up that button for manual blocking and then use the attack+secondary button combo for something new like counters/finishing moves/etc.

 

...well, this is the princple anyway. There are a couple of problems with this imp. in B15, but we are sorting them in the next build. SO dont' get me wrong - there is still more work to do on our saber system (some of it is already done and is waiting to come out in the next Build release) but I just wanted to clear those couple of things up...

 

err, right, that's what I figured. It's very difficult to tell when there's no documentation.

 

So, exactly what did you do to the autoblock? Did you just reduce the block distance on the OJP autoblock? Used the basejka system or something new?

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Assuming you're using the standard wasd set up for your keyboard, walking is as easy as holding the shift key or tapping caps lock.

 

'Tapping' as in toggle I think is out of the question. Well, I mean people can try it this way if they like, but I don't think it could be considered a 'standard' way to play. Blocking is usually a fairly continual well-times on -> off -> on in order to effectively attack -> block -> counter-attack. THis does not lend itself well to a togelling action...

 

And I still stand by my first statement - it's more intuitive for 'most' people (not nessesarily you) to have the block button on right mouse button rather than a keyboard key. The fact that block in MB forces you to walk (and hence why you are trying to turn them into the same key) is actually totally irrelavent to this principle.

 

Dont' get me wrong - I understand what your saying. And if we could avoid with a back and forth session about how the block button could work just fine on the keyboard, then I'd appreciate it.

I acknowledge it 'could' work on the keyboard. I just think it's better being right click as standard - that's all...

 

My point is that you could free up that button for manual blocking and then use the attack+secondary button combo for something new like counters/finishing moves/etc.

 

Yes, this is a valid point. And this is maybe where you have to consider OJP and MBII seperately. MBII has reduced the number of key's you have to keep track of in the case of Jedi, and so if we needed a new 'finishing move' button, that wouldn't be a problem - in fact we already have one dedicated button which would be ideal for this. The main point is that this finishing move button would be just as appropiate as a keyboard key as a mouse button / combination.

imo you can't say the same for block...

 

err, right, that's what I figured. It's very difficult to tell when there's no documentation.

 

Yeah -this is a fair point. Were gonna work on proper documentation. There is the website - which does give some details, but that also still needs a bit of work...

 

So, exactly what did you do to the autoblock? Did you just reduce the block distance on the OJP autoblock? Used the basejka system or something new?

 

To be honest, there are so many little changes now it's getting hard for me to remember exactly what it was originally in the OJP implementation that I've altered...

But the underlying saber v saber blocking (once you get past the BP system) really isn't that different - at least from the early OJP version I'm working from (even though I may have added a few more blocking moves so that it looks a little different). It's just that the BP system is layered on top to catch player 'mistakes'.

 

To have a more detailed and technical descruption of the changes, you'd need to give me a chance to go back through the code and find the exact differences...

 

 

btw - please dont' take any of this stuff as being in any way critical of the current OJP saber system (To be totally honest, I haven't taken a good look at it for a while since I've been so busy with MB - so I dont' have an informed opinion on it atm anyway).

 

I'm only commenting here to defend the choices which we've made with the MB system. I am in no way trying to influence the OJP Enhanced system. Just wanna make that clear...

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Well, give me and Keshire some time to make the next revision of the saber system.

 

I'm really hoping that the simplified manual blocking with new block positions and transitions will be exactly what the system needs.

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No offense to the Movie Battle mod but I think saber blocking shouldn't affect movement. What you should consider doing is limiting the speed someone can travel when they pull out the saber at all, unless, say they hold down shift and go into a running mode which should weaken a player's defenses. In real life sword fighting opponents are generally manuevering withing a few feet of each other anyway. If you ever see a fencing match you'll see what I mean. THe fighters don't walk in a way that looks like a crawl , but they aren't in a full out sprint either. I hope that whole post made sense to you folks.

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JediLiberator,

 

No offense taken - and I don't agree. I certainly dont' think you can have watched any OT duel and say that they constantly run around the whole fight like you do in base jka...

 

And even in the realtively fast-paced duels of - say - TPM, there were still sections where combatants slowed down, a tactic which has NO reasonable benefit in base jka...

 

But I'm not gonna continue to clog up the OJP forums with discussion of our saber system. I suggest you come to our forums if you want to discuss this more...

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Gotaiken,

 

The idea in MBII is not to just stand there with block held all the time - the idea is for it to be attack -> block -> counter-attack. The only time your walking is in the block phase.

 

So MBII is not just walking (as opposed to base jka which is all running) - any given fight is a mixture of walking and running and hence caters for both OT and PT types of combat. (If you block more your basically playing OT combat, if you block less - still a legit tactic - then your playing more PT style...)

 

True phunk, but... try to keep the game fun, and point blanc the game is more fun when you are running

 

Plenty of people are currently enjoying the MBII system Got. And I can also find plenty of people who will disagree with you about 'constantly running' being more 'fun'. Your entitled to your opinion of course, but stating your own personal preference as if it's a fact for everybody is fairly misleading I feel...

 

But as I said before, if you want to talk about this properly, please either find one of the existing MB threads or come to our forums. This thread should be about the OJP Enhanced system....

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Actually I test the mod nearly every day, and before you make assumptions it would be nice if you found out just how many ideas I contributed to the mod. Im not trying to bash his ideas, or mess up gameplay, Im trying to make the mod as fun and skillful as possible, and from more playtesting I agree with you Phunk, walking isnt a biggie, just please have it so that running backwards gives you a better chance to block. (not better then walking, just better then any other directional running)

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since you guys are fixing up the sabering i have an idea, how about taking out the spinning moves for duals and staff so that they play just like single, you may not think that its a big deal but it would be greatly appreciated, there is nothing worse than getting into an intense close range fight doing an unintential attack from a block animation and then still thinking that you are doing what you were trying to do (the direction of the attack is what i mean) you end up doing a turning attack and getting killed.

 

You could simply make another stance with the spinning moves, a dual/staff heavy stance if you will.

 

BTW if anyone couldnt understand what I was talking about in refrence to the reason why I think turning attacks shouldnt be in the main dual/staff stance, say so and I will clarify.

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Eh? Did Razor let you in on the whole story of what I was working on?

 

*edit*

anyway just to put this into perspective.

 

the current blocks aren't animated and only cover 5 positions.

 

My blocks transition from the start position (BOTH_STAND2) and back, plus in between each other for a much smoother blocking experience.

 

also I expanded the cover to mostly a full circle (8 positions) in the front as well as added 5 positions to cover the sides and back.

 

In essance I've turned the blocking into its own saber style. With wind-ups and transitions galore. :)

 

Single saber is complete/done and Razor has it. Dual is mostly done and has been tweaked to take away that whole crossed sabers peice of crap looking blocks. Staff needs tweaking as well but nothing major and should be done given one or two nights of work.

*edit*

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you werent supposed to tell us how its gonna be lol, i was just telling the others of what to expect, kinda wanted to be in awe when i got it :( now you spoiled it for me :mad: but its ok :D your still the man :) and keep up the exceptionally great and talented work. :p

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Just by reading the argument on the first page about the blocking. It really got me thinking. (If these things are said, please forgive me because i did not read every single page, it was just too much) Anyway, it got me to thinking, with the blue slash attack (crouch+forward+attack) there is no need to defend there, for all you have to do is either of the following 1) roll backwards, left, or right or 2) jump backwards, or jump forwards behind him and then turn and kill him. So that takes care of that. Now there is this thing of saber slowing. This is definitly not an answer. Blocking is definitly a skill, so normal speed, will give the user time to stay away from him and learn the blocking, so this builds skill.

 

Now we get to the running and blocking thing. Now, im saying this as if it were real life, you can not block while running! Its just imposible, because you are trying to move and you then forget about bracing yourself. So really you should put runing as a stamina draining feet. Running normal is basicly a sprint, so that would work very well.

 

Also, going on with the trying to make block and run/walk work together, you should make it like this: If you forget about the stamina aspect of running, and keep it like it is normally, (running forever) you can basicly attach blocking to the walk/run button. So inturn what you do is, you hit the block button, and a direction key, and then u slow to a ... power walk if you will. Basicly that takes care of the running and blocking thing.

 

Please excuse me if these things where already mentioned, I just felt I had to say it for my sake, because just reading the front page, it got me thinking and, when i think, i think long and hard about things, because i dont always think long and hard.

 

Thank you for your time in reading this, hope your mod comes together soon, id love to play it soon!!

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Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

 

If you want to play a game which is unaffected by lag, then play Online Chess. .

[/b]

 

Chess is a lot about lag...the most popular net form of the chess is 3 minutes and under....if people are lagging badly they get a large disadvantage....I hear people whining about it on chess servers all the time

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