GothiX Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 That doesn't stop other clans from abusing it, so we'll run into abusive servers all the time. You won't seem to read the psts here, so I'll do it this way.. Take the abusive commands out. Now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Slider744 i also can give u tones of IP where my mod is installed and where there is no problem of abuse admins..... I won't have that much patience to sit through the immense list! i can also give you server with no mods, where admin abuse with rcon by kicking/ banning players when they win in duel against the admin The abusers can't even use rcon. The abusers like to "play" with the people. i also can give you IP of server where there is other mod which you called non abusive mod like JAR where there is also a lot of abusive admins only with teleport, kick, ban or sleep I am against those commands as well. Now i stop discussing with you it leads to nothing so i won't come back here [*]You said that last time. [*]That's because you're too stubborn to listen. [/list=1] But i will go on this server of course to see by myself their bad admin behabviour ...... Good, go! but u know, if it is regonize by everybody that this clan is awfull and abuse of admin cmd, it will die soon cause everybody will go to play elsewhere.... Not if it happens in most places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo05 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Slider, please dont remove any of those "abusive" commands. I love your mod and its my absolute favorite! And i was wondering when 1.6 is coming out? But This mod hasnt been that stable on jedi servers and it is hard to set up. My server crashes sometimes, If you could tell me and easy way to set it up that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiX Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Mongo05 Slider, please dont remove any of those "abusive" commands. Please, explain why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo05 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 sorry gothix but those commands are awesome, mindtrick is the best way to make lamers stop, and it resolves the confilct instead of banning them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at90s2313 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 All I would like to see right now is to be able to disable individual emotes..... Some are ok, but some are not what I would like to have available to players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mongo05 sorry gothix but those commands are awesome, mindtrick is the best way to make lamers stop, and it resolves the confilct instead of banning them... Let me show you something: 1) Warn 2) Boot 3) Ban Anything that goes out of this is abuse. If someone is not following your rules, they don't deserve to play there. Mindtrick is NOT a warning. Sleep, tell rules, wake, they continue to lame, kick, come back and lame, ban, come back after a ban, sleep + silence combo. No where was slap, slay, empower, mindtrick, breakarm, or turnintodeadfrog included as part of the WBB system. Slider, you still don't understand. You say people can abuse with rcon, then why ADD TO THE ABUSE WITH COMMANDS THAT ENCOURAGE ABUSE? Most abusers are too stupid to know how to execute simple rcon commands, they need mods like yours to point-and-click dismember, slap, kickban, etc. players who are doing absolutely nothing wrong. You say abusive commands like slap, slay, etc. are needed if someone changes IP and comes back after being banned, here's what you can do: Sleep + silence combo. Let them lay there in silence, nothing more needs to be done. Good admins do NOT need abusive commands to "enforce" their "rules". I use JAR everyday at JK3Files, and it's so simple and straight forward. I never would need to slap or slay or turnintodeadfrog someone. Even before getting JAR, enforcing the rules could still be done using rcon. I, who you would consider a "good" admin, say: Slay, slap, mindtrick, breakarm, etc. are NOT needed to "enforce" the "rules". Sleep is the most abusive that you need. And PLEASE make sleeping players invulnerable to attacks. I CANNOT TELL YOU how many times I've seen a server where an admin would put a lamer to sleep and tell everyone in the server to "Kill the sleeping lamer! This'll teach him not to lame!" Slider, tell us ONE REASON why a "good" admin would EVER use slap, slay, empower, terminator, mindtrick, or breakarm to "enforce" the "rules". ONE DAMN REASON, PLEASE. And don't say that abusing clans will die. Because that hypothesis has been proven wrong a long time ago. We all saw the admin abuse in JK2, and why did abusive clans stay alive? Because people buy the game everyday, and get onto the servers. There will ALWAYS be new players to be abused. And this destruction will continue in JK3 now too, sadly. Because ignorant abuse mod makers like Slider continue to feed their abuse needs. JK3 is damned to have the same fate that JK2 had. And you, Slider, will be the one digging it's grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I am using JA+ 1.5c at my clanserver (as I said before) and we're not abusing it at all, we used to have two abusive members, but they ended up leaving the clan. Simply, if you break the rules of our server, we will first you give you a warning, if you continue, we will sleep you, if you continue again, you will be kicked. Keep coming back to break the rules, and you're banned. My point is, please listen to us, and take out slap, slay, breakarm. Teleport is just fine, I don't see it being abused anywhere... And mindtrick is just fine too, we prefer to use it on people who have returned after two-three kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Teleport can be abused by teleporting someone over a pit, over and over and over and over.... If they still come back after a kick, then ban them! Nothing else needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 all can be abuse by abusing of it.... all is question of moderation....... for now i will not remove those cmd because in the past there have been for a group lamer well organized who come in several servers only to waste the gameplay of other, insults others ...etc... in normal condition, i warn, then sleep then kick then ban..... but for those 5 or 6 lamers who were coming always at the same time..... warn ==> they laugh and insult sleep ==> they reconnect kick ==> they reconnect ban =+> they change their IP and reconnect.... the only way was to use punish of ammindtrick and then ignore them..... they couldn't insult , lame, and waste the gameplay of others.... after 15 min they all left my server..... so for me those cmd are good protection..... i will play on a lot of server and see the general behaviour of other people.... and then i will considering your opinion more carefully if i see that too many people abuse.... for the moment i met no problem when i go to play on internet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 i... had... to... make... a... post... with... word... that... end... with... 3... dot... =) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Slider744 all can be abuse by abusing of it.... all is question of moderation....... for now i will not remove those cmd because in the past there have been for a group lamer well organized who come in several servers only to waste the gameplay of other, insults others ...etc... Waste gameplay? (I'll assume that's making it not fun.) That's what the abusive commands do. Insults? Silence! That's okay! in normal condition, i warn, then sleep then kick then ban..... There, you've proven that the commands are unnecessary! but for those 5 or 6 lamers who were coming always at the same time..... warn ==> they laugh and insult sleep ==> they reconnect kick ==> they reconnect ban =+> they change their IP and reconnect.... :deathii:Warn: That's a warning, if it's shrugged off, then that's what the next steps are for! :deathii:Sleep: (I don't support it, but look at what I typed for Warn) :deathii:Kick: If they reconnect... :deathii:Ban:Alot of people have static IPs, if not, then ban them again, or ban the IP range if you're desperate. the only way was to use punish of ammindtrick and then ignore them..... I thought we were over the silent treatment thing... they couldn't insult That's what silence is for. lame, and waste the gameplay of others.... That's what the commands do. after 15 min they all left my server..... In which what could have been done in about five minutes with Warn, Boot, Ban. (Rough Estimate) so for me those cmd are good protection..... Protection? From what? Besides, boot (kicking) is much quicker. i will play on a lot of server and see the general behaviour of other people.... and then i will considering your opinion more carefully if i see that too many people abuse.... Go ahead! Do so! for the moment i met no problem when i go to play on internet.... There are alot of servers with the problem. Play on a large amount of servers, then consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo05 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 SLIDER, PLease listen to this, in 1.6 if you ever consider taking out those "abusive" CVars, Make it so u can chose which ones admins have because people like me, LIKE TO HAVE THEM ON THEIR SERVER. ONE OTHER thing, i think you should include "all" in the mod. Like /ampsay all, because i need that really bad to get a point out to everyone, like to tell them im changing a map and such.. PLease consider it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 In JK2, the commands were never disabled by server owners or admins in high command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo05 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 so? stop crying about it just let slider make his mod cool. That would be cool if he made empower look cooler. i know he couldnt make it like in jk2 cuz that was from jedi master, but he could make it look like a duel or somethin.... ....and make a fixed red dfa! and a faster roll that doesnt jump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 ....and make a fixed red dfa! Xmod and a faster roll that doesnt jump! Xmod (the roll look laggy tho) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mongo05 so? stop crying about it just let slider make his mod cool. That would be cool if he made empower look cooler. i know he couldnt make it like in jk2 cuz that was from jedi master, but he could make it look like a duel or somethin.... If his "mod" was cool, then it wouldn't have the abusive commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mongo05 if he made empower look cooler. The only cool empower is no empower. After reading slider's last post, wow, he seems like a very n00b admin. Someone insulting others? Silence. That's what it's for. Keep coming back after ban? Sleep + silence combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mongo05 ....and make a fixed red dfa! and a faster roll that doesnt jump! Both of these things are already in xMod 2.3, along with a much better and non-abusive way to prevent so-called "laming", and many other gameplay enhancements. But, you would have to give up slapping, punishing, armbreaking, etc. So it depends on what's really important to you: having gameplay enhancements, other cool features (profanity filter), and automatic honor code enforcement, or being able to torture , abuse, and punish "lamers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 in the next 1.6 version i had no time for look at admin cmds because i only improve gameplay.... i will examine the situation later of those "abusive cmd".... the solution of HEx seems to be great but i am not really convinced with the efficiency of automatic honor code..... they may kick the wrong personn or a lamer mya use this automatic detection to lame or go through the protection as the behaviour of the protection is well known and therefore predicted..... execept if he devlopped a real AI engine..... maybe he will improve a lot the detection.... so mybe it will be good i will examine the situation later... for the moment i havn't met server that abuse of those cmd they use it in general with the good way ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I hope you do look at Hex's system and talk to him I think you will find it works far better than the old system of abusive commands (ampunish/sleep, et al.). The "automatic honor system" is togglable so it doesn't have to be used, likewise you can't really "use it to lame" because you'd have to kill somebody, then quickly run to a safe spot and stand perfectly still for 15 seconds (or whatever the default is set to, I suppose if you set it to 1 second it could be abused) to be safe. In addition other features (like log files and such) make it easier to ban larger numbers of people just like every admin mod, so that's not a big deal. The Xmod2 system just seems far less humiliating to "offenders" of whatever the server's rules are. I just see the abusive commands as bringing the server admin down to the low level of the "lamers." The admin should at all times rise in maturity level above people that try to be annoying and act stupid on his or her server. I know it's just a game, but a certain level of proffessionalism goes a long way to making a server more fun and run more smoothly. The "amlame" commands always struck me as petty revenge (and unfortunately easy revenge can be addictive, thus it makes for easier corruption of admin scruples). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 on the one hand i agree with you but on the other those cmd were usefull in the past.... sur in must of cases, i use only warn, sleep, then kick then ban... but u know, some group of people have made a clan of lamer.... they are super well organized and when they fall on a server coming with 10 of their clan lamer, they completly destroy the gameplay.... in those cases, other cmd that you call as abusive are very usefulll... do you know those group of people ? did you face one day their attack? they take a lot pleasure to prevent other people from playing, they love insulting everybody, and they are able to stay during several hours on a same servers to lame ...... they reconnect each time you kick them....... but i found a very good technique..... ampunish then force them to spect then ignore them...... ignorance is the best punition.... so when i ave more time to deal with admin cmd i will go through all the internet to see the use of my cmd.... then i will see... for me it is clear that i need them.... but if too many people use them to adminlame, i may remove them.... and make a more honor automatic admin mod with AI engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PerfectAgent_ Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Originally posted by Slider744 in the next 1.6 version i had no time for look at admin cmds because i only improve gameplay.... Removing admin commands improves gameplay. i will examine the situation later of those "abusive cmd".... If you want your "mod" to be truly good, then examine the situation now! the solution of HEx seems to be great but i am not really convinced with the efficiency of automatic honor code..... As long it stops the abuse, I'm for the automatic honor code. they may kick the wrong personn It doesn't kick anyone. or a lamer mya use this automatic detection to lame or go through the protection as the behaviour of the protection is well known and therefore predicted..... Go through the protection? You become invincible to everything. (Though I'm not sure if it's to guns though...) execept if he devlopped a real AI engine..... maybe he will improve a lot the detection.... so mybe it will be good What does making better Artificial Intelligence have to do with making someone invincible and having a timer to do so? i will examine the situation later... If you want your "mod" to be truly good, then examine the situation now! for the moment i havn't met server that abuse of those cmd That's because you haven't taken a look! they use it in general with the good way ... You said you haven't taken a look! on the one hand i agree with you but on the other those cmd were usefull in the past.... We give you reasons on why they are not needed and give you better alternatives, yet you choose to ignore. sur in must of cases, i use only warn, sleep, then kick then ban... Which is all that's needed. but u know, some group of people have made a clan of lamer.... they are super well organized and when they fall on a server coming with 10 of their clan lamer, they completly destroy the gameplay.... Destroying the gameplay is the job of the abusive commands! in those cases, other cmd that you call as abusive are very usefulll... We give you reasons on why they are not needed and give you better alternatives, yet you choose to ignore. do you know those group of people ? People who play the game it was meant to be played. did you face one day their attack? I love it when they do. FFA madness! Fun! they take a lot pleasure to prevent other people from playing, That's the perfect description of an abusive admin. they love insulting everybody, Silence then. and they are able to stay during several hours on a same servers to lame ...... That would be "fixed" by xMod then. No need for admins on the server around the clock. they reconnect each time you kick them....... Then ban! but i found a very good technique..... ampunish then force them to spect then ignore them...... I don't care about the silent treatment. I was done with that a long time ago. ignorance is the best punition.... Uh... I'll take it as, "Ignoring people is the best punishment." Most of the so-called "lamers" don't care about being ignored. so when i ave more time to deal with admin cmd i will go through all the internet to see the use of my cmd.... then i will see... If you want your "mod" to be truly good, then examine the situation now! for me it is clear that i need them.... We give you reasons on why they are not needed and give you better alternatives, yet you choose to ignore. but if too many people use them to adminlame, i may remove them.... Then examine the situation now! and make a more honor automatic admin mod with AI engine... I still don't understand the AI thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo05 Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 SLider, what kind of New moves will be on the new mod, can u describe them? I really hope there is like slo mo ****... AND please tell me when u think the new mod will be released.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 very soon the mod is finished but still in beta test.... the mod is complety different from the previouse version in the point that it now adds features that will incredibly give to player a lot of way to kill another personn and so increase the number of different technique..... all the new move are made so that just pressing attack & alt attack makes you not kill everybody any more.... the nexw move are more difficult to execute and requiere more skills...... it is what there was in jk2 and missed in jk3 (require skill to execute dfa) visit the http://japlus.fragism.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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