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the future of the jedi series ...


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lucas (and lucasarts) seems to work in trilogies ... and academy is the third in the series, so what's next?


i started this post for no real reason other than to hear what other people would like to see in the next jedi-style series (i'm sure they'll come up with another excuse to put out some more games). who knows maybe someone high on the totem pole will read this and start thinkin':)


now battlegrounds is coming out soon, which looks cool for those who just like to shoot eachother (my friends fit in this category). i happen to really like the sabres though.


i think lucasarts should put their money where their mouth is and abandon the quake engine they've been using for the jedi series. i think it's time for something new. i feel that an engine that really defines the power of the jedi would be best. something that allows for saber-dismemberment not only for humans but for the environment they fight in. the ability to cut support beams at their base and then force push them off their mooring, possibly into other combatants. tired of walking around in a circular level, why not just whip out your saber and cut a whole in the wall from one side to another. did someone lock a blast door in front of you, why not go qui-gon on it and just cut a hole in it. you get the idea.


also there is mention in books of seven U]forms[/u] of saber combat; it would be cool to see those all, maybe you make a character and choose the form he uses. also i think it would cool if they possible slowed down the saber speed a little, that way its no longer a hackfest (or button pushing contest) but you have observe what your attacker does and attempt to counter as quickly as possible. example, someone winds up to take off your head with a form 5 cross thrust (i made that up:)) and there are 3 moves that you can perform to counter with one possibly leading into an attack of your own. make it almost more (dare i say it) like a fighting game, but not too much.


i also think an rpg-style would be nice .. someone who really practices his moves is going to be better/stronger than someone who just bought the game yesterday. maybe make how you play the single-player missions affect your character in the online arena, etc.


i also think since the jedi knight series is now over (?), it would be nice to set the story way back during the great sith wars, a story revolving around darth bane, lord kaan, general hoth, the battle of ruusan and the likes.


alright that's my shpeel, thanks for letting me practice my first ammendment rights (i love democracy). anyone who wants to post a reply to this feel free to. thanks again.

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I think klye katarn still has some life left in him for another Jk game. I'd love it if they made another jedi knight set during the New Jedi Order series. I know many people don't like that series of books but I thought they were awesome and I think if you could jump between Klye's character for harder missions(since his powers would be pretty strong by then) and a new apprentice of his(for missions that are easier but might require a little more physical vigor and agility.) Plus I think you should see more civilians and have to protect them to stay on the lightside. Maybe alter some of the force powers a bit, throw in a few new one, improve the saber system a lot(Im hoping the OJP system will do that for JA) and you got yourself a real contender. Well that's all folks!

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For an RPG get KOTOR, or SWG :)


something that allows for saber-dismemberment not only for humans but for the environment they fight in. the ability to cut support beams at their base and then force push them off their mooring, possibly into other combatants. tired of walking around in a circular level, why not just whip out your saber and cut a whole in the wall from one side to another. did someone lock a blast door in front of you, why not go qui-gon on it and just cut a hole in it. you get the idea.


Good Idea... they did it. Its possible in the engine. Very Possible. Just not implemented (not to the level we would like)


Civilians are possible too. Even in MP. Yes.. mp too.. you could have NPCs walking around, talking, not fighting, doing things (sitting, jumping, sleeping, interacting with the environment)Really. Check out my map: Dark Crypt It has an NPC walking around, NOT attacking. I called it a ghost, even though its just a cultist you can walk through. Its sort of buggy... but as long you dont interfere with him, he will work fine. Like i said, its very basic, because no one really knows what will work in MP, and what will not. :) Thats sort of RPGish.... Not to the level you would like, but still.


I liked how you visited places like Hoth and tatooine in the game. It made it feel like the star wars universe. On the same note, i didnt like some of the made up worlds. Especially Korriban, it just seems like tatooine, with yavin temples.


If they make a new game, i would love it to take place during the actaull star wars period: The Original Triolgy :) Imagine, being luke skywalker, or han solo (even JKA now supports switching player models, if Raven wanted to, they could have made you switch to chewie, or kyle in the middle of the game, which ill be implementing later on) They touched this with the Hoth winter suit... but you were still Jaden. Anyways... back to what i was saying. They should make an OT game, but expand a little. Maybe be luke on the death star for one level, then han... you know like when they split up. You could be obi, and maybe add a small fight with the tusken raiders.. or add to the bar fight. Make it so luke couldnt die or you would lose... or something (still... all possible with the current engine)


The engine is good right now, its excellant, with some more coding it could support RPG elements. But you will be happy to know that JA is the last game using the Quake 3 arena engine. The graphics just cant compete with the latest engines :(

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Basically I'd like to see a dedicated "Dark Side user" game (speaking of the single player campaign). We've played as the good guys in all three games, with only the first one really offering a real choice (JA's was pretty much a throwaway option).


How about a game where we start on the Dark Path right at the start? (with maybe the option somewhere if you do certain things to pull a Vader and "come back" with a noble sacrafice if the designers are still dead set on making you good).


The mould for Jedi Academy is pretty good, though of course it could stand a few improvements here and there.


Mainly I'd like to see more interaction with NPC's and coop possibilities explored and more of the class and objective based modes (and vehicles integrated into combat) that were only briefly touched on in JA.


Of course ideally this game would be more open ended as far as editing is concerned (ie: SP SDK), but with a liscense as tightly clutched as Star Wars that may not be likely for some time.


Heck, look how long it took them just to allow a Star Wars game to have Dedicated servers!


While JA I think is truly an evolution of the series so far, I admit there are still a few things in the spirit of JK1 and MotS that the series could benefit from, namely better guns combat in Single Player, a more compelling story/characters, more animations to give the characters and the world life, truly swimmable water, inventory items that are actually useful, more work with dynamic lighting (ie: seeing in the dark, hidding in darkness, more glowing objects and cast shadows), more destructable and interactive environments (like what was planned for Obi-Wan PC).


But all those things are icing on the cake for me. In general I'd just like more of what came before, but with an option to finally play as the bad guys.


The JK series doesn't need to nix the guns play (this would be a big mistake) or first person view. It doesn't need to turn into an RPG either. The greatest strength for the series is the unique combat experience in both SP and MP with a mixture of projectile weapons, melee weapons and ability enhancing and cool force powers (and it goes without saying the Star Wars name, which conjures up far more than just Jedi swinging sabers).


I don't think a game based on the NJO would work too well, so it should either be an original adventure, or perhaps taking on the role of a famous evil force user like Darth Vader, etc.


A game like this may already be in the works for all we know. ; )

It seems like the natural evolution of the series, it's what hasn't really been explored yet on that level.


PS: Nitpick but JA is actually the the fourth game in the series (fifth if you count MotS, the JK1 expansion as a seperate game, which it almost was).

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I think the one thing it really needs, (aside from an involving story and good voicework for once), would be a new combat system. The JO method of combat has gotten old and as far as making new moves or different things to do there's not a lot new to do with the exception of preprogrammed junk like katas. I know it's a broken record, but for a new game to be even justifiable they need something with much more saber control, say, possibly, being able to stand in place and fight? Something where you controlled the saber instead of setting off various swings.

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I think they should make a game set during the prequels. Maybe have a game where you play as anakin and obi-wan during the clone wars (not based on the cartoon) but something along those lines, between episodes 1, 2, and 3. Or even as an original character coming out of the academy during the clone wars being sent to fight separatists on some world with a squad of clones, ultimately being betrayed by the republic and fighting for your very survival.


On the subject of the engine, i think lucasarts should come up with or contract a company to come up with a completely new engine, a la jedi knight with the idea to maximize effects such as sabers and lighting, vehicles, models, etc. to get a constant framerate, which was something the quake 3 engine had a lot of trouble doing, even with top of the line hardware.


I would like to see a real time star wars rpg along the lines of morrowind but i would think that day is not forthcoming for some time. But the games being brought out this year do look very promising indeed.

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From what little I know, id software is in the engine-building business...Doom 3 existing mostly to show off their latest engine. From an economic standpoint, it probably makes alot of sense to use an engine from someone else & modify it a bit to suit your needs as a company, instead of reinventing the wheel.


As someone mentioned earlier, all I want is more of the same, though with a first-person saber mode...lol. I'm still miffed about that. I just hope they continue making spectacular games as they have...since I try to stay away from the multiplayer aspect, as CS ruined my life (damn near, with no exageration) I just want some solid SP storylines to get involved with for about 20-30 hours, and then be done with the game for the most part.

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I feel your pain Aegis, witht the loss of the 1st person mode in this game i just lost interest, unlike JO which i played over and over and built about 20 unreleased SP maps for it. There was something else, i guess the story was better, i can't really put my finger on it but the point was that it inspired me, not only as a gamer but as an artist and introduced the world of game modding to me, as a result i became an even bigger star wars fan. I then spent the next year planning a huge mod based on what i knew was going to be in academy as it was going to supposedly be more modder friendly, but after playing the game i felt the magic was lost somehow. Support for the game was nill, the awesome JK2 radiant which i learned to use for JO was not updated to JK3 radiant, i didn't like GTK at all, then I let my big project go down the drain lost faith and have moved onto other games. I just hope that the next jedi game, if there is one, restores that magic like JO and that it will be easy to mod.

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Well, within the year we are getting a prequel based FPS for the pc with full multiplayer capability (Republic Commando) using a recently modified Unreal engine, but there isn't any sign of usable Force powers or lightsabers in it.


I agree that First Person saber (in SP and MP) should be brought back in any new Jedi Knight games for sure.


Official sources have already publically said that JA is the last Jedi game that will use a modified Q3 engine.


And I think the initial poster was referring to Battlefront (based on the BF1942 engine), not Battlegrounds (which is based on the Age of Kings engine).



And there actually ARE "Seven Lightsaber Forms" in Jedi Academy.


First off there are the three styles for the Single Saber, and one unique style each for the Dual and Saberstaff.


Then (Single Player only) there are two additional styles (available through the use of cheats), "Tavion's Style" and "Desann's Style."


Actually, there are more if you think about it. There's a "Reborn Style" which is basically like the staff if one blade were turned off but still using the same moves including kicks. This is also usable with cheats.


Finally the player styles in SP and MP are different. For example the standing swing in SP is like the running swing in MP. The moves also behave differently (ie: you can walk and spin with certai moves that you can't in MP; you have spin kicks and long jumps in SP, etc).


A lot of potential is right there in the series, it just needs to be implemented in a nice way in a new polished game.


As for making a brand new in-house engine for Jedi Knight IV, that sounds like a great idea. I think the game would benefit from it the most.


However there are a few things to bear in mind when we wish for something like that.


Developing new engines takes TIME. As was pointed out in various interviews and statements by the developers of JA, if you want a new engine each game you have to be prepared to wait 3-5 YEARS for each new game.


Second, companies like Raven software don't make new engines fr their games. Being a smaller company this is understandable. Thus they can have shorter development cycles, build on what they have worked on before and save money.


Third, if you look at the games that LucasArts has released recently, a large portion of them are contracted out to other smaller companies and use modified versions of pre-existing engines (based on popular selling games not very coincidentally).


In the PC gaming industry, which isn't as profitable these days as they'd like to be, it makes sense that they'd be trying to "cut corners" like this. It doesn't mean their games can't be good, but it does make it harder to make totally in-house games with as huge budgets and attention to detail as we saw in the original Jedi Knight.


Plus, as was said, you have to re-invent the wheel everytime you make a new game, or start with a new engine, because the majority of FPS games don't have melee weapons and force powers in mind when they are designed. Plus you have all the legal restraints (especially if you're not LucasArts) based on what you can and cannot do with the liscensed characters and themes.


Frankly, I find it amazing that so many good Star Wars games get made at all (and believe me I agree there have been some real stinkers made in the past few years).


Still, I think the reason developers keep coming back to Star Wars is because Star Wars is so popular and the developers themselves are such big fans. To them it's a labor of love. But love alone isn't enough, they need money, man-power and time.


So with all that to take into account I begin to understand the extereme difficulties and restraints put on developers who work on Star Wars games.

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I havent been through the whole topic yet, but Id just like to get my ideas down:


Character customisation: Obviously if the game features speach its hard to name your character exactly as you wish, but maybe you could select from a number of titles, first and last names?


And i feel a greater impact of dark/light allignment on the single player game would be good. Prehaps have a kind of mission tree, where you start either as a padawan on Yavin 4, a dark jedi/sith initiate on some Remnant world (Pre dark empire Byss prehaps, or Bastion?) or a mercenary, whos game would feature more gunplay. Though along the line you can choose to change allignment to light, dark, or a Kyle esque maverick using powers of both sides, based on the descisions you make and the ways you obtain your objectives. Furthermore, it would be cool to have things like 'Darsiders with good intentions' with an ending reflecting how they are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.


Further to customisation, customised saber styles? Start with a basic fast/medium/heavy stance and buy from a selection of acrobatics, kicks, throws, katas and such to get your own style. Prehaps an experiance system that automatically level ups certain skills (such as force jump so you can always complete the next level), but allows some customisation, whilst over skills can only progress past a certain point with use (so in order to get level 3 lightning, you need to use level 2 alot).


And Id like more 'film-style' dueling. I think normal jump, though enhanced by increased force jump levels, should not cost force points but not take you so high, and have a dedicated force jumpo power for the massive jumps. In the films when we see such jumps (the Carbonite chamber duel and the Naboo reactor) the Jedi had to brace themselves, they couldnt just bound about like that. So implementing this should keep duel grounded.


And leading AI allies would be nice, so your jedi would lead a commando team to blow up a base or something.

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And leading AI allies would be nice, so your jedi would lead a commando team to blow up a base or something.


Possible.... just not implemented. A lot of things mentioned here is possible, just not implemented. But i agree, A new engine would be nice.



Finally the player styles in SP and MP are different. For example the standing swing in SP is like the running swing in MP. The moves also behave differently (ie: you can walk and spin with certai moves that you can't in MP; you have spin kicks and long jumps in SP, etc).


Like i said in another thread, i think they cut those out to reduce lag. In single player, 5 people at the same time might be doing that, but in MP, there could be 32.


I plan to make a SP level sometime, it will focus on some of these things. Wont be for a long time though :(

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I'd be interested to see what road the developers of the next game will take. Would they use the doom, half life, or unreal engine, or even something else? I could be wrong but from what i've heard, the doom engine doesn't really support multiple npc's and large environments, even with the top hardware. Didn't deus ex use this engine? I haven't heard much in terms of the half life engine, but i heard theirs allows for a bit more freedom but you do need top of the line video card, processor and ram. I think the most malleable engine would be the unreal engine. The graphics are good, the environments seem very large in certain areas, and i believe it allows for multiple npcs. It actually played better for me than the quake 3 engine if you can believe that. To me it would seem the logical way to go but then again i could be wrong.

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I would also like to see a darkside storyline. A real one. The realistic saber effects on the environment would be awsome, but I honestly dont think they would be willing to modify an engine to get that kind of effect. Leading squads is also a great idea, after all isnt that what the jedi were doing in the clone wars?


Actually, I was looking forward to a Jedi game based inside them movies, and I hope they make one before im 50:rolleyes: . I have to agree that JA didnt have the "magic" JO did. Back in JO I never played online, and must have played the single player game 20-30 times. Now when I try to play JA single player, after about 15 minutes i get fed up with it and quit and go to multiplayer. I use guns preferably, so if they took those out I would be dissapointed


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I'd like them to set the next game in the Clone Wars. The one clone wars game that has been done was mostly vehicle fighting with a few short lightsaber levels. I'd like them to do a game that kind of a reverse of that. a first person shooter with maybe a level with two or three levels of vehicle fighting( hopefully with at least one starfighter battle) but mostly level that require lightsaber use(with the option of 1st or 3rd person views). like in the 1st clone wars game you would be different characters for different levels For instance you would play as Obiwan on Munilist maybe with a level after it where you fly a jedi starfighter as Anakin( a planet they fought on during the clone wars cartoon) Anakin and Obiwan on Jabim ( a planet they fought on in the comics) were you start as Obiwan and then switch to anakin in attempt to find a missing Obiwan and Mace on the planet from Shatterpoint. Other levels would have you play as Eeth Koth and/or Ploo Koon or Kit Fisto, and for good measure the female master from Approaching Storm(a novel set pre ATOC) and/or Adi Galia. Once you go through the game once you could then be able to play any level as any character like in EA's Return of the King game and maybe have a few secret characters like a playable yoda. Sorry for the long post put I put alot of thought into this after playing JA and The Clone Wars and then watching the Micro series.

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I remember these threads ... of, well, I don't have the time to get into full detail ...



- More skill development. I'd love to see a 'train-up' based skill system, where you learn and apply various skills.

- More RPG-lite elements. Choosing dialogue, taking a character path, etc.

- The morality meter, and rewards for keeping to your character type. If you are playing a stealth character and get through a level without killing anyone or tripping alarms - you get some type of bonus to your stealth abilities. Or whatever.

- I'd like to suggest a 'versus' game type. You can start as either a light-sider or dark-sider and work your way towards the battle at the end against the other one.

- All of these things would greatly enhance the gameplay and replayability.



- I don't care if the next game has MP or not. So what does my opinion matter?

- That said - I'd like a MP-focused game that involves Jedi campaigns.



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txn, that is a dope idea, the next game should have you choose whether you want to be a lightsider or darksider from the outset and have a branch-like storyline towards the end like if you were a jedi then had to decide if you join the darkside or stay a light jedi, then the game would act accordingly, plus keep the character build option and have more dress options. I always wanted my female jedi to be able to wear other clothes as opposed to being restricted to one set.


The game could be awesome having the morality meter, kind of like KOTOR in that if you choose to say more evil things or threaten someone, the game would act by giving you more evil choices as opposed to good, thus changing your character. Cool.

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