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Originally posted by Master_Keralys

Now, maybe it's just me doing something wrong, but cg_sabermelee doesn't seem to work at all; it's doing the stupid "Let's make it a text chat" thing instead of a command. Is it just me screwing something up or is there actually something wrong with it?

 

It is "ojp_sabermelee". I'm pretty sure I listed it correctly in the cvar listing. Where is it listed as cg_sabermelee?

 

After playing around with it this much, I haven't noticed but a few major bugs. First, even with the settings all set at least where razor and the others have been having success, my disgusting saber passthru without damage is still happening, more so with two or staff sabers than with single, but still there will all of 'em.

 

Well, there's probably a couple of things causing it. For one, I just discovered a pretty nasty bug in my RealTrace coding.

 

Secondly, to prevent nick deaths (IE deaths from a series of tiny hits) I've configured the game to use a small amount of fatigue to stop it without doing any dodge animations. I'll try making the player do the dodge animations when this happens. maybe it will help.

 

Obviously the bots are screwy, so I'm taking that into account (that's all I can play against for now). Even so, I'd stand there with my saber off and just watch several different bots just hack like mad at me and see the pretty little trails go through me and take no damage. It's almost like it's doing dodge code - but without the animation or the meter dropping. Not sure on that one.

 

See above. what is your sv_fps set to?

 

The other big problem that may or may not need to be addressed within this release is that the grapple moves are seriously overpowered. I could just run around in melee mode and annihilate Jedi Master-level saber user bots with ease. The grapples (the forward and standing still are ridiculously easy to land) destroy the people, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to land the head-knee bashing back grapple ever. Some balance there would help immensely.

 

Really? I've always had a hell of a time landing grapple moves since you can't move or turn while doing it. Maybe I should unlock the view and allow the player to move a LITTLE bit. However, in exhange, we need a balancer. Maybe make non-attack moves with the saber do attack level damage to melee attackers? Or maybe not allow melee attackers to dodge?

 

Admiral -

go check the readme, but I'm pretty sure that all of those are in Basic. Hit detection might be the only one that isn't... As far as the bots go, they weren't programmed to use this system, so the fact that they're working at all is enough for me.

 

Exactly. I'm not planning on improving the saber hit detection code in Basic because the hit detection IS part of the gameplay to a degree. But you can always just boost the sv_fps....

 

And, after playing it this much, I think there definitely needs to be a difference between Force and Fatigue.

 

I disagree. Namely because the movies seem to indicate that Jedi intentionally don't use excessively during saber combat. I beleive this is because they are using their contentration mainly for saber combat vs using Force powers and because using the Force heavily obviously drains your strength.

 

Finally, I'm not sure I like the current parry system as well. I liked the manual block better. Perhaps some combo of the two would be better?

 

Any suggestions? I can't really think of a way to have both without coding in some sort of toggle between the two.

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Originally posted by Soruss

I'm pretty sure it was at 100. Is it possible to disable the rolling? It bothers me enough that I'd say I wouldn't bother playing MP against anyone with dodge rolling. I'd prefer that an automated system doesn't have such rash control over my movement. I can roll to dodge quite well on my own =P On that note, maybe rolling should take fatigue? Maybe some of the special jumping moves might take fatigue instead of force, or maybe just jumping in general might take a bit of fatigue? Might stop people from randomly jumping around. Although one of the fun things about JK2 is turning on speed and jumping around the levels. Sorry, random splurge of ideas.

 

If you were truely skilled enough to dodge all your attacks manually, you wouldn't be Dodge Rolling. :D And jumping and stuff already drains Fatigue. Don't worry, I'll mess with the system a bit to prevent you from falling off cliffs and such.

 

I'll try setting it higher. Would a cvar for the damage done to the dodge meter be a possibility?

 

It's possible but I'm not planning on it. There's simply too many varibles and I don't want to create a gamer hell by having too many cvars for server admins to screw up.

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That would explain the problem. It is listed as "ojp_sabermelee" in the cvar list. However, in the OJP readme, it's listed as "cg_sabermelee".

 

If you've got the bug isolated, I'm not worried about the passthru issue. Implementing a dodge anim should help a little, I think. Maybe just implement the old MOTF anim's in that particular situation, only scaled down or reduced.

 

My sv_fps are set to 50 the first time, 100 the second. I can try it even higher and see how much it does, but it's not seeming to make a lot of difference.

 

Really? I've always had a hell of a time landing grapple moves since you can't move or turn while doing it. Maybe I should unlock the view and allow the player to move a LITTLE bit. However, in exhange, we need a balancer. Maybe make non-attack moves with the saber do attack level damage to melee attackers? Or maybe not allow melee attackers to dodge?

 

It just takes a little practice to get the forward and still ones, at least against bots. The back ones with the head-to-knee bash are a pain in the neck to land. I don't like the idea of not allowing melee attackers to dodge, if anything their dodge would be better in real life b/c they don't have a saber to avoid. I do like making the idle saber hit them worse.

 

OKay, on the fatigue part. I'd like it the other way, but I can totally see where you're coming from and it's fine with me.

 

I can't see any way around that either. Perhaps what you're doing for the parry right now could be wired in as the autoblock system you were discussing, dependent on dodge; it uses those animations, whichever is best, to do the block as a parry without or with reduced bonus (and the bonus level reduction could be based on how much dodge remains). And then the manual blocking could be like it was before.

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Originally posted by Master_Keralys

I can't see any way around that either. Perhaps what you're doing for the parry right now could be wired in as the autoblock system you were discussing, dependent on dodge; it uses those animations, whichever is best, to do the block as a parry without or with reduced bonus (and the bonus level reduction could be based on how much dodge remains). And then the manual blocking could be like it was before.

 

Actually that was the case right before I changed it. Unfortunately, the autoblock really got in the way of making accurate attacks.

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Ah. I didn't realize that. If there's any way to get around that, I think it worked better. Even with only a half hour of playing it seemed to function more realistically. I rarely had it do an autoblock, so my blocks were fine. Were you saying that it screwed the player's attacks? Or the attacker's attacks? I personally found it more intuitive than the current system with the odd parry stuff. Perhaps keep the parry bonus within the first second of assuming a block position (so that you can't just hold down the block like you can in b3 w/o much penalty) after that it's okay but has a higher likelihood of getting knocked back by good attacks.

 

I think it'll be easier to do the feint system that way as well; it was really tough with b3 and pretty much impossible with b4 (was it even really in b4?)

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Originally posted by JediLiberator

Correct me if Im wrong, but if you can parry saber strikes why do you even need dodge? You can block saber hits, jump clear of explosives and deflect energy blasts. Why even put in dodge? Wouldn't that just add to your headaches?

 

It's a gameplay mechinic. Mainly so we can boost the damage to lethal levels and still be able to play the game.

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OJP Enhanced v0.0.2b5

 

- Fixed a major bug in the Real Trace function code.

 

- Fixed bug preventing saber bounces from occurring.

 

- idle sabers don't go into bounce anymore.

 

- added "bot_fps" cvar. This controls the fps of the bot ai code so you can raise the server fps without increasing the bot ai's. defaults to 20 (fps).

 

- fixed partial dodge math errors.

 

- Faking system tweaking:

- to abort an attack, simply let go of the attack button.

- to perform a fake hold down attack + block + movement key for the attack you wish to use. You need to already have started/be in an attack for this to work.

 

- Force Fall starting fall speed tweaked

 

- Fixed Bug in impact (fall) damage code logic. Client 0 was getting free pass. I beleive this is due Raven accidently leaving some SP code in MP. (BugFix3)

 

- Saber Clash Effects now use the saber wound debounce (g_saberDmgDelay_Wound) to prevent effect spazzing at different sv_fps.

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Okay, i've given a couple versions of the OJP enhanced a run through, and i'm encountering some problems:

 

1) I can't hit (do any damage), nor get hit myself...

I know it's nothing like the weird JA saber system, supposidely realistic, but i'm either swinging through their bodies or seeing Dodge in the works. Seriously, i've stood with my saber off in front of half a dozen bots--TRYING TO DIE!!! I couldn't get 1 kill or even be killed myself in about 15 mins of gaming against 6 bots.

2) The saber animation speed. I've tried changing it back to '1', and it's normal for the most part--except I'll see the same .5 speed for many of the yellow attacks. Feels like the game is in slomo, hehe...

 

Yeah, I checked through the cvars hoping I could figure something out...no luck though :( Am I missing something?

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Originally posted by Pnut_Master

1) I can't hit (do any damage), nor get hit myself...

I know it's nothing like the weird JA saber system, supposidely realistic, but i'm either swinging through their bodies or seeing Dodge in the works. Seriously, i've stood with my saber off in front of half a dozen bots--TRYING TO DIE!!! I couldn't get 1 kill or even be killed myself in about 15 mins of gaming against 6 bots.

 

Make sure that your sv_fps and g_saberDmgDelay_Wound is set to the suggested values in OJP_SaberSys.txt

 

2) The saber animation speed. I've tried changing it back to '1', and it's normal for the most part--except I'll see the same .5 speed for many of the yellow attacks. Feels like the game is in slomo, hehe...

 

It sometimes takes a while for the cvar to take effect. Other than that, it's probably just your imagination. The code has the saber animation speed applied all at the same time so if one has changed, they all have changed.

 

Yeah, I checked through the cvars hoping I could figure something out...no luck though :( Am I missing something? [/b]

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The cvar that does slow motion deaths in duel interferes majorly with something.

 

This is what I've encountered with it on.

 

Random slow downs

Disconnection errors

If I restart the match it endlessly loops the load level.

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I'll be testing b5 later today; I had a thought on the saber system, though. What if you went back to how it was before (manual blocking, parry as part of Dodge) but modified it so:

 

When the player isn't blocking it, it tries to go into a dodge sidestep or something like that. If it's still going to hit, then it tries a parry, and if that still doesn't work, only then does it go to a Dodge Roll.

 

This would drastically reduce the probability of the dreaded Dodge Roll (and once you finish tweaking it it shouldn't matter). It would also mean that the parry system would be less likely to interfere with attacks. It does line up with the SW universe, too. The Jedi Knight Vergere once pointed out that "The master of defense is one who is never in the place attacked."

 

My only other suggestion would be to simply go back to the previous programming and drastically reduce the probability of a parry being successful. As I noted before, I never really had it do an autoblock except once or twice.

 

I too have gotten Disconnection errors - on my own server, at that... a little odd. I'll be back later after I've finished my homework and can do some testing.

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Originally posted by Master_Keralys

I'll be testing b5 later today; I had a thought on the saber system, though. What if you went back to how it was before (manual blocking, parry as part of Dodge) but modified it so:

 

When the player isn't blocking it, it tries to go into a dodge sidestep or something like that. If it's still going to hit, then it tries a parry, and if that still doesn't work, only then does it go to a Dodge Roll.

 

This would drastically reduce the probability of the dreaded Dodge Roll (and once you finish tweaking it it shouldn't matter). It would also mean that the parry system would be less likely to interfere with attacks. It does line up with the SW universe, too. The Jedi Knight Vergere once pointed out that "The master of defense is one who is never in the place attacked."

 

My only other suggestion would be to simply go back to the previous programming and drastically reduce the probability of a parry being successful. As I noted before, I never really had it do an autoblock except once or twice.

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that it's not possible to accurately predict saber attack hits before they happen.

 

Well, actually, I just had an idea. I might be able to create a very fancy function that does some level of very complicated prediction to determine where sabers are going to be. But it might be too CPU costly. We will see.

 

I too have gotten Disconnection errors - on my own server, at that... a little odd. I'll be back later after I've finished my homework and can do some testing.

 

When do you get the disconnect errors? I know that it sometimes does that on my local when I can the saber animation speed.

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I finally got the chance to try the beta. I have to say I was disappointed. I like the fact you can dodge and block, but the attack are slow. I was using blue and I felt like I was crawling by. Also the whole deal where the force recharges only when you walk is pointless. I know you want to prevent spamming of katas and such, but I don't think this was the way to do it. You really earned a skioff(slap) in my opinion. So I think you need to speed the animation up and fix the force, if only a little. This does NOT have the feel of a real saber fight. You're on the right track, but I think you took the ideas just a little too far. Keep it up though. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Eventually.

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Jedi Liberator: use the saberanimspeed cvar to alter your speed; I can't remember at the moment whether it's cg_saberanimspeed or g_saberanimspeed; it should be in the cvar list in the distro. 1 is normal, .5 is half, etc.

 

Originally posted by razorace

Well, actually, I just had an idea. I might be able to create a very fancy function that does some level of very complicated prediction to determine where sabers are going to be. But it might be too CPU costly. We will see.

 

Good luck; you're gonna need it. I hope that works out, though, it might make things run smoother.

 

When do you get the disconnect errors? I know that it sometimes does that on my local when I can the saber animation speed.

 

Yeah, the really weird part is that it does it sometimes even when I'm not running OJP. It did it to me back on JO as well at times; I think it's just something weird with my PC, thinking about it. But as far as I can recall, it's done it the most on OJP when I've been messing with the saberanimspeed. You said that seems to be a problem with the MP engine?

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Yeah, the really weird part is that it does it sometimes even when I'm not running OJP. It did it to me back on JO as well at times; I think it's just something weird with my PC, thinking about it. But as far as I can recall, it's done it the most on OJP when I've been messing with the saberanimspeed. You said that seems to be a problem with the MP engine?

 

Yeah it seems to be. I have no clue why it occurs but it does seem to even out if you just wait a few seconds or kill your character.

 

Jedi Liberator: use the saberanimspeed cvar to alter your speed; I can't remember at the moment whether it's cg_saberanimspeed or g_saberanimspeed; it should be in the cvar list in the distro. 1 is normal, .5 is half, etc.

 

Yeah, both issues you described have cvars controlling them. Please consult the ojp_sabersys.txt for details.

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Originally posted by razorace

Yeah, I think that has to do with Teancum's menu enhancements. I've already asked him to look into it.

 

Ya, it should only do that in MP. But, it shouldn't matter in MP, because you're already in a mod :p . I will look at it when I get time, but it will be at least a month, at which time I'll probably add the OJP cvars to the menu system.

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First of all, great job so far on all the work and effort you've put into the mod.:)

 

I've been playing with the beta and noticed a few things here and there, so I thought I'd post them. This might run a little long.

 

Also, I've only tested with bots and I have the following cvars set:

 

g_saberanimspeed .75

sv_fps 100

g_saberDMGDelay_Wound 100

 

For me the title for the Jedi Master Game type doesn't show up in the menu, although Holocron FFA and CTY are present. I don't know if that's just a thing with the altered menu files, and the game type is still playable so it's not a big deal, just a cosmetic thing.

 

For me the idle lightsaber was getting stuck in the wall when walking by or turning when the blade tries to pass through.

 

This isn't really a bug, but Force doesn't regenerate if you crouch and move forward, unless you also hold down the walk button (if always run is on). Holding down the walk button seems a little redundant in this situation since I seem to move the same speed either way, so this might also not be a big deal. Just thought I'd bring it up if you didn't know about it.

 

This next one isn't really specifically a problem with the beta, but I had dismemberment on in multiplayer (g_dismember 85 and cg_dismember 85). I had included 7 bots plus myself. Some of the bots were Jedi Outcast models I was using in multiplayer. At first the bots that had surfaces turned off using surf files from JO were working, but after several kills suddenly the hidden surfaces started to appear on the JO models. Some surfaces were textured correctly others had the grey/white "missing texture" surface, others wouldn’t display any part of the surface but damage marks from weapons would appear floating in mid air where these would be if they weren’t hidden. Some surfaces would also appear highlighted when “Sense” was used or during the animations when characters perform the dodge moves. This also happened with my character as well, I was a JO model.

 

After that started to happen, I tried being a JA model with hidden surfaces (Female Twilek) to see if they would also make an appearance and they did not.

 

I wanted to see if this was a problem just with the mod, so I then tried base JA with dismemberment on with the same settings and the same hidden surfaces were appearing. So then I tried turning dismemberment off (both settings set to 0 obviously) and restarted the game. The hidden surfaces did NOT appear anymore.

 

Anyway, that turned out not to be a bug in the mod but in base JA. I don't know if you can do anything about that, or if that's part of the game engine and inaccessible to change, or if it was just my computer. Worst case scenario dismemberment can just be left off to avoid the ugly models. I apologize in advance if that has been mentioned before, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

 

I was also wondering if the dodge effect takes over rather than blocking when fighting saber to saber. When fighting the bots I would swing at them and they would dodge, and they would swing at me and I would dodge. Hardly any blocking was taking place.

 

Also, it is very difficult to kill gun wielders (and I have g_saberdamagescale set to 2) because they constantly dodge every saber swing. It just seems to present a problem when I go after these bots, so it might possibly be a good idea to disable dodge for gun wielders, unless this is only a problem with bots. Balance wise I think it just gives gun users too much of an advantage over saber users, since they can dodge the saber swings and still continue to shoot and hit the saber user (especially if the gun is one that the sabers don’t block well or at all). This is also going to be more of a problem for people who don’t have the saber damage scaled up.

 

As far as the Force use goes, the regeneration only when walking and standing still, works for the most part, I just noticed a few areas that felt like they could use some refinement, but other than that it seems to serve its purpose rather well.

 

It seemed to create an issue when, for example a bot with the repeater or rocket launcher would shoot and I would try using Push to send the projectiles away. After several pushes I would then close in on the bot and try to swing the saber but it would be an incredibly slow swing because my Force pool had been depleted too much. Then it’s a bummer to be shot mid-swing with my saber out to the side during a slowed down attack. (This would also happen more often when I had to jump to reach a high place, and then got attacked with repeater/rocket launcher.)

 

Force regeneration also comes into play during lightsaber duels. Many times I’ve been fighting against a bot (or two) and make multiple attempts to kill them, but it takes a long time because of the dodging. (It might just be a matter of adjusting the dodgeregen cvar to a higher level so that it takes longer, I just thought of that while I was typing.)

 

This goes back to the blocking issue from above. After making multiple swings at a bot, and they constantly dodge, they don’t seem to block attacks with their saber so they dodge a lot and still don’t run out of dodge meter. After fighting for so long my attacks started slowing down, even though I was walking, because my Force had depleted.

 

I tried not attacking to give my Force time to regenerate, but then whenever the bot attacked me I’d automatically do a dodge, which begins depleting my Dodge meter. I didn’t specifically count but I seemed to dodge 8 out of 10 attacks and only blocked the remaining 2. The dodge feature works well, but during the duels I think I spent too much time being thrown around and not enough time clashing sabers.

 

Some Force powers seem like they take too much energy away from the Force pool when it takes so long for it to regenerate (I believe my forceregen cvar was set at the 200). Maybe the amounts required for certain more passive powers should be taken down so they can be used but still not abused. Having other more aggressive powers, like lightning, that depletes the Force pool rapidly help to prevent them from being abused. They still function, but it helps cut back on the number of times they get used (with bots at least).

 

That, like everything else, probably requires testing to make certain that it could be balanced while still maintaining the integrity of the game play.

 

Again, I was only able to play against bots, so if certain issues don’t really factor into the game play when playing against humans just let me know. And if I missed any cvars that will already fix any of these problems I apologize. I think I read and changed all the important ones.

 

All in all the mod is making great progress, and it’s clear that a lot of effort has been put into it and constantly making improvements. Great Work! Sorry that was long, but I wanted to make sure to explain it all so you’d know what I meant.

 

Thanks!:)

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does anyone else here feel that the feinting system is somewhat awkward. ive been noticing that it slows down your counterattack time because you have to focus on the animation rather than the footwork of guiding an attack into the enemy.

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Originally posted by JediLiberator

I wonder if maybe you should try a beta without dodge and have the animations speeds set to about .75-.8 then make it so blocking cost more energy when you run. That will make people slow down in dueling. Just a thought.

 

Well, running while attacking already greatly increases your chances of screwing up on saber impact.

 

But I agree, I think we need to add in some additional costs for parrying while standing and running. Probably a Dodge cost.

 

And you can manually change the swing speed to whatever you want. I beleive the default is .7

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I've tried the latest Beta. You have some very interesting ideas. I've only played against bots so far and haven't been able to kill any of them(I suck). If anyone in Europe wants to play a little 1 on 1, let me know(PM), I've got a test server ready to go.

 

I think i still have to get used to how the play system works now, because it's been very difficult to play this thing, with the auto dodge and the attack interrupt system. I guess I'm not used to keeping the attack button pressed for a long time when attacking, so whenever I do try to attack, it never follows through with the swing.

 

So adding this to the auto dodge system, it makes we want to toss my PC out the window for my inability to kill even the most moronic bots. :)

 

Right now I don't feel like i'm in control of my character at all.

 

Suggestions(excuse me if I'm mentioning things here that you already planning to include in the future. I haven't really kept up to date on this project):

  • Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.
  • No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.
  • Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?

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# Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.

# No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.

# Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?

 

You'll get used to it plus it lets you break out of chained moves.

 

I like that idea but I really don't know how feasable it is. Currently I think it kicks into effect right as your hit.

 

Because people would then map the block back to the secondary mouse. You can bind it to whatever you like.

 

either way coding-wise it has to stay as alt_attack. because there's only a few buttons you can actually hold down.

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