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razorace
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  • Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.
  • No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.
  • Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?

 

Speed up the attack/interrupt system? What do you mean?

 

You can't really anticipate when you screw up fast enough to avoid the attack as is, right? So, how is mapping autoDodge to a button going to help when you're never going to be able to press it in time?

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Originally posted by razorace

Speed up the attack/interrupt system? What do you mean?

 

Well, right now, i have to keep attack pressed for a certain amount of time for the swing to follow through. I'd prefer it if this time was lowered so that I wouldn't do as many unintentional interrupted moves, like i'm doing now. But I might need to get used to it ofcourse. It feels very unnatural right now.

 

You can't really anticipate when you screw up fast enough to avoid the attack as is, right? So, how is mapping autoDodge to a button going to help when you're never going to be able to press it in time?

 

Why would i want to dodge if i screw up? If I screw up i deserve to take a hit! Dodging shouldn't help crap players like me. We deserve to die.

 

But seriously, dodging should just be an alternative to blocking, where instead of blocking, the player avoids the attack and moves into a more favourable position to his opponent. Like for example his back or his sides. This is how dodging is used in most fighting games.

 

So if someone starts attacking me I can block/parry the attack and wait for an opening or just dodge the attack completely and strike him from behind or something. If i don't do either of these, I should just take a hit.

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Well, right now, i have to keep attack pressed for a certain amount of time for the swing to follow through. I'd prefer it if this time was lowered so that I wouldn't do as many unintentional interrupted moves, like i'm doing now. But I might need to get used to it ofcourse. It feels very unnatural right now.

 

Right now, it's entirely based on weither or not the button is being pressed when the code processes the transistion from one attack animation to another. I can't really think of a way to improve on it without totally messing up the ability to do chained together moves.

 

If you want to learn on how to make it easier, just watch your player while you start the attack. The abort-out points are right at the the end of the wind up and after the end of the attack swing.

 

If you simply want to do a single attack, just hold down the button until the you finish the wind up, and then simply let go of the attack button.

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Finally had a chance to test with a friend of mine last night. I'm starting to get used to the attacking a bit. Still don't like the way dodging works. My friend said it was like fighting pudding :).

 

Trueview is fantastic. Plain and simple. It's kinda like the First person cheat that was available in JK2 MP, but better. I especially like the trueroll, trueflip and truespin cvars, but i think playing that way is gonna make me puke over my keyboard :). Have you considered making Trueview the default view for gun users as well?

 

I noticed that lightsaber users still use autoblock when it comes to defending against gun blasts, but i guess you're focusing on saber vs saber combat right now. Still i would like to see the block button used there as well and an aiming system for deflecting back the blaster bolts to it's owner. That doesn't happen nearly enough in standard JA.

 

I also noticed in Jedi vs Merc mode that Merc's also have the ability to dodge. I thought dodge was Force based and considering Merc's can't use Force that doesn't seem right. But I guess i'm wrong about it being Force based.

 

one, more thing. When defending and walking backwards the animation was really slow. It seemed as if i was gliding across the floor. I do have my server speed set a little bit higher that default so this does happen a bit naturally, but walking backwards seemed to have this problem a lot stronger than the other animations.

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Originally posted by WhiteShdw

Finally had a chance to test with a friend of mine last night. I'm starting to get used to the attacking a bit. Still don't like the way dodging works. My friend said it was like fighting pudding :).

 

Yeah, it needs some more work. I'll have to mess with it.

 

Have you considered making Trueview the default view for gun users as well?

 

I'm not going to make it the default but you can use it for the guns by switching one of the cvars.

 

I noticed that lightsaber users still use autoblock when it comes to defending against gun blasts, but i guess you're focusing on saber vs saber combat right now. Still i would like to see the block button used there as well and an aiming system for deflecting back the blaster bolts to it's owner. That doesn't happen nearly enough in standard JA.

 

Yeah, I'll have to do that eventually.

 

I also noticed in Jedi vs Merc mode that Merc's also have the ability to dodge. I thought dodge was Force based and considering Merc's can't use Force that doesn't seem right. But I guess i'm wrong about it being Force based.

 

Yeah, that needs to be worked on too.

 

one, more thing. When defending and walking backwards the animation was really slow. It seemed as if i was gliding across the floor. I do have my server speed set a little bit higher that default so this does happen a bit naturally, but walking backwards seemed to have this problem a lot stronger than the other animations.

 

Yep, I know. the walk animations, especially the backwards one, haven't been tweaked for the new movement speed yet.

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Is it possible to increase the amount saber to saber collision detection ? JA`s single saber combat still feels very hit and miss. I like to see lots of blocking and parrying in single saber v`s single saber combat.

 

 

OJP has certainly improved JA`s combat, IMO. keep up the great work :D

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Well, the sv_fps tweaking along with my realtrace coding helps dramatically. However, there is one more technique that I can think of that would definately help. However, I'm worried that there would be a nasty fps hit. I'll have to try it when I have time.

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I've noticed there's still alot of pass-thru, even with sv_fps 50 and maxpackets at 50. I actually noticed better detection on lower FPS levels ie. 25.

 

Block and parry are barely usable against horizontal strong wings (as well as verticle in most cases) and almost useless against dual saber users. I have the anim speed at .75 because the other speeds are unplayable.

 

I like the fatigue thing, constant attackers soon find themselves in a whole mess of trouble after a few moments :)

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I noticed a few more things when testing the mod:

 

I tried a CTY game on the Hoth Wastland level (comes with JA) and it just defaulted to CTF, but it showed up in the CTY map list. I don't know if that's fixable or not. Other maps showed up as well (actually all the CTF maps show up as selectable in CTY). I didn't test any of the other maps at the time.

 

In this same game I noticed that bots would be a big no-no during a CTF game with their current walking settings. They take the flag and then take forever to return it because they never run at all. It might not be a big deal if people don't normally play CTF with bots (that might be on the list of bot A.I. fixes that you said you were going to attempt RazorAce).

 

I was having someone throw Thermal Detonators at me and the game would automatically use Force Push to knock them away. That was cool, except then I ran out of Force from the pool and couldn't jump where I was trying to go. I don't know if the auto-push was intentional or not but it was kind of cool. It's just that having the Force regenerate so slow (or not at all when running) would lead to a strategy of throwing Thermal Detonators (other explosives might lead to the same auto-push I don't know because the bots weren't tossing them) at someone to deplete their Force pool and then attack them. That would especially be a bummer if you were using a saber and had your Force depleted that way, because then you'd automatically be swinging slowly leading to a quick death.

 

It's also very hard to kill the flag carrier with a lightsaber since they dodge so consistently.

 

Also, it's possible to start a CTF and CTY game with no time limit AND no capture limit. That might present a problem if someone were to start a game with the settings like that accidentally. I didn't set them like that I just started a game to test something real quick and noticed that afterwards, so it might happen if something gets set to default. I just tested and it happens in regular JA as well. Maybe if it isn't possible to change any code for that a simple warning when they are both zero would suffice (unless there is any reason why someone would want both to be zero, in which case the warning would work best).

 

Sorry, if that was off topic. I really don't try to be, honest.

 

I hope that helps!

 

P.S. - I'm still curious to know if anyone else has the same problems with dismemberment (that I mentioned before) and if there would be any way of fixing that. (or if I'm just doing something wrong:confused: )

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Well, remember that the CTY gamemode has flags that look very similar to CTF except for the Y thingy sitting on top of the flag.

 

And, yes, the force push thing is intentional, but you have a great point about it thou. We'll have to think of something to count that.

 

And the no score/time limit thing is almost certainly something from basejka. I don't remember any changes being made there.

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I checked the CTY gametype again, just to be sure, and it seemed to just default to CTF.

 

I looked at the flag and there was no yslamari on it and when I retrieved the opponents flag I could still use Force powers.

 

I checked the about tab in the upper left after hitting esc and it says CTF next to gametype.

 

On the loading screen when the map is loading it says CTF there as well.

 

I did this in one of the CTY maps from JO, so I know the gametype would normally work on this map. (Is enabling this gametype supposed to allow CTY gameplay on maps that were only built with CTF in mind, i.e. the base JA CTF maps? Just curioius so I know for future testing.)

 

Oh, and the 0 time and capture thing is from base JA. I checked. I just didn't know if it was a big deal or not.

 

 

 

Also, several posts back there was a discussion about adding manual blocking for laser blasts as well. I think that having a block button for lasers could work, but possibly have the saber still autoblock the lasers but not bounce them back at the shooter. Pressing the block button at the appropriate time right before the laser arrives could then function as directing the laser back at the shooter. A margin of error on the amount of time required for the block button to be pressed before the lasers arrive might be neccesary to componsate for lag, but that would definately require testing.

 

If a block button had to be held down to block, people would just want to go around with the button held down all the time which would be silly and pointless. :rolleyes:

 

Plus, allowing saber users to passively block lasers without directing them back at the shooter would be movie like (not that everything always has to be movie like). The Jedi in the films seem to block incoming lasers more like a reflex but have to focus to direct the lasers where they want them to go.

 

Making saber blocking of lasers too much more difficult, like having to press block for every individual laser, would allow the saber users to be overcome too easily. Including a block feature for lasers, as mentioned above, could serve to add more skill required without making it a hassle or a disadvantage for saber users.:D

 

I think the block button for the saber battles in the earlier betas worked quite well. Why was that replaced with the parrying feature? (I haven't yet got the hang of the parrying system.)

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Okay tried the mod again. I have it on my own computer so I can mess with the settings. I had the saber animation speed at about a .9. This definetely made the dueling a little more enjoyable. A few points I think I'll make.

1) Blocking and dodge are pretty good as far as I can tell. I had a single blade and was fending off a saber staffer for a decent while, so that wasn't bad. I think .85-.9 is the "sweet spot" for the anims speed. At least I was doing fine in it.

2) The whole walking to recharge force energy is annoying. What I suggest is replace the dodge meter with a fatigue meter. This meter gets drained by pretty much everything you do,attacks, blocks, dodges, pretty much any major physical action, but recharges more quickly if you are walking rather than running. That way you can keep the fast fluid pace of the game up and you can still limit the player's pace a bit to make saber fights more movie like. Also you can use the fatigue meter for special attacks if you want. That would prevent kata spamming if you were careful about it.

3) Oh and increase the walk speed to a canter. Look at a fencing bout if you need an idea of what Im talking about. They don't run, but they don't stroll around either.

4) I didn't seem able to do any katas or special moves. How do you do those now that the secondary attack is gone? Just wondering if they had been dumped.

Keep up the good work dudes!

edit: on a short term note, drop down the amount of dodging a player can do a little bit. Duels that stretch out too long can get stale.

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Okay, I'm finally back after about a week of computer problems and stuff. I've only been able to do a little more testing, but I ran some SP testing (as none of the testers seem to have looked at that much yet).

 

I like the new menus; however, a little better explanation of certain things would be helpful. For example, how does the "All + Enemy Jedi Dodge" work for the SP dismemberment? Furthermore, I got a "couldn't write to something.cfg" error when I tried modifying that.

 

There are also serious problems with the SP saber selection menu. The Skywalker, Retribution, and Stinger names do not show up, and the view simply locks on to the last saber selected before those reach that point.

 

Moreover, the menu does not show any additional hilts. As an example, I recently downloaded the <A> hilt pack, and it shows up just fine in the regular SP windows, but it does not show up at all in the OJP SP window.

 

Otherwise, everything seemed to be running smoothly; the shadows and everything else are working nicely; well done.

 

Finally, I had a thought regarding the saber sys. As several more people have commented on the previous saber system with the manual block (which I had given up on) another idea came to mind. Why not make it a server side command that is selected in the "New Game" setup screen, where you select options like the weapons allowed and whatnot. It can then be displayed as a "Manual Blocking" game or a "Parry Button" game or something like that. Again, I know you're busy and may not have the time or desire to do this, but it would allow both groups to be satisfied. Along the same lines, server admins could put on their server names (if it's not an automatic thing) what the saber anim speed is.

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Just wanted to add this--

I was having the 'saber passes through body w/ no damage' issue with version 5 of Enhanced. Frustrated me like hell, considering I tried adjusting all of the cvars you listed...

Downloaded version 6--Load it up--Works beautifully.

I'm really impressed with how far Enhanced has come, and just want to say you're doing an amazing job thus far.

Definitely going to be my favorite mod ;)

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I was thinking about the dodge ability and all the related issues with it and came up with some ideas.

 

First of all, maybe it would make it a little more functional to make dodging more like an additional Force power. (Force Foresight or something.)

 

That way it can be enabled when someone wants to use it but disabled, for instance, if someone is near any ledge and doesn't want to worry about Dodge rolling to death.

 

The new meter in the upper left could still be used as its base of operations though. Toggling the Force power on would draw from the Force pool at the start (a one time deal so it doesn't keep draining from the Force pool). Then when the player does any dodges, as a result of having the power on, it would draw away from the dodge meter.

 

The issue with players auto Pushing the incoming explosives (thermal detonators, rockets, etc...) could be tacked onto this power as well. Once the dodging power is activated if the player senses the explosives coming it could do the same auto push but draw from the dodge meter instead of the Force Pool effectively leaving the player with that Force to still jump and use as they please.

 

This way people who don't want to have their player do the dodges at all don't have to have it enabled and the people who do enable it would get several dodges out of it before the meter depleted and they were left to defend themselves naturally.

 

Anyways, I think that was the rough outline of the idea and it probably needs some refining (definately testing:D ) but I think it would add to the overall playing experience.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

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I don't see the point. Other than the issue with rolling off cliffs (which can be fixed with some trace scanning), there'd never be a reason to turn it off.

 

And I agree, the projectile push should take dodge power instead of force.

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Well, the reason I was thinking that it would work better as a selectable ability was mainly because right now it throws me around a lot of the time.

 

There seem to be times when during my swing it kicks in and rolls me somewhere even though I was going to hit my opponent.

 

It currently seems to take a lot of control away because of the drastic result the dodge takes by rolling me away. There may be times when I would prefer to have the total control offered by choosing when to roll manually.

 

I like the feature. It does add another level of depth to the game play. I'm only saying that right now it takes a lot of control away for the entire duration of the round, and might serve better as something that can't be on all the time.

 

The Force Sight power allows for dodging sniper shots from the Tenloss Disruptor Rifle. The ability to dodge those shots isn't on all the time because then no one would ever get shot.

 

Currently, I can turn off my saber and know that if a saber wielding bot approaches me that I will not get hit. That might become kind of like a safety net for some people.

 

If the feature were amended somehow so that it was present in the game but not a major determining factor, I think it could be enabled all the time without causing major game play problems.

 

I'm not trying to be negative or condescending. Like I said, it's a great feature that I would like to see work, but I can see it being easily abused in its current state. Making it a half Force power/half physical ability that could only be enabled depending on current Force and Dodge meter statistics could serve to prevent that kind of abuse.

 

I'm just trying to help, so I hope you're not taking it the wrong way. I like where Enhanced is going with all the new additions and everything. I've been keeping an eye on its development and it’s very apparent that you, and all the others involved in the project, have been working really hard. It would just be disappointing to see the mod overrun with people abusing features rather than using them.

 

Again, I'm not trying to give anything other than constructive criticism. I have great respect for the time, energy and effort that everyone has been putting into the project.

 

Keep up all the great work!:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sounds good. Who's been working on the menus and whatnot? Cause I figure I'll pm 'em with info on the SP menus that are so weirded out. Maybe six'll do it, I haven't had a chance to try it yet b/c I was out for two weeks, but...

 

Do you know of anyone interested in a comprehensive bot rework? B/c as is they're horrid and, as much as I love it, OJPE is just not worth playing for fun b/c I can't really play it with anyone. I'll keep testing and whatnot, but... if you know of anyone, I'll post a thread on the topic.

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Originally posted by Master_Keralys

Do you know of anyone interested in a comprehensive bot rework? B/c as is they're horrid and, as much as I love it, OJPE is just not worth playing for fun b/c I can't really play it with anyone. I'll keep testing and whatnot, but... if you know of anyone, I'll post a thread on the topic.

 

RazorAce is working on bot improvements. I think he's totally reworking their logic and adding new features. It seems like a lot of work since they're pretty incompetent right now. :)

 

Thread right here:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124633

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