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Mr._Katarn
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It's been a long time coming and it's going to be a long time gone.

 

Alright, all joking aside, sometimes news is so important it requires a double post ;).

 

That's right the long awaited nar shadda gallery is online with a grand total of 18, count 'em, 18 screenshots for your viewing pleasure. I hope that holds everyone over. There's more to come in the not-too-distant future and more maps are in the pipeline.

 

So, here's the link, for those of you who might have forgotten: http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/df2mod/news.html

 

Incredible? You be the judge.

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Me either. Looks great. So will this one have the live action cutscenes like the original or the ingame ones you said you were going to do?? And will you eventually have a 3 level demo in order? Levels 1-3? And will they have the live action cutscenes or the ingame ones??

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Thanks for the kind words, guys. I was hoping you all would like it.

 

Anyway, we haven't had time to post anything on moddb.com yet. I'd especially like to get some more mappers by the summer, so I'll see if I we can use that to our advantage in the near future.

 

"How did I do it?" you ask. Simple, a week of spring break spent mapping 'til 4 am, a stockpile of soda, ice cream, and cheesy poofs and, of course, inspiration from DFMod to make it the most impressive NS level so far. Hopefully, it's getting to that point. The cutscenes will probably be the originals, at least for a demo release, but will probably change by the end. And the railing was never part of this version of the map but that's a long and complicated story I won't bother going into here.

 

Expect more updates in due time.

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Looking good, I'd offer you guys a hosted site at JK.net if I knew it wouldn't be a hassle (I have no idea if we even host people anymore, but who knows!).

 

The only thing I'd caution you about is making the levels too dark. See, JK1 and MotS were cool like that because your lightsaber could actually light up a room. In Jedi Outcast they stupidly didn't make that possible. In JA you can kind of sort of do it a little, but it's nowhere near the glow you got in JK. Plus you don't get the IR goggles (or just the crappy goggles from Jedi Outcast which suck, somebody needs to make a revamped version that doesn't make it HARDER to see without them!), and you don't get the field light that you got in JK1! Also in JK1/MotS Force seeing actually lit up the room for you, not anymore, sadly...

 

So while dark levels look great, just consider how the player will be able to see in them, or increase the saber glow somehow to compensate. ;)

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<head pops up>

I sensed my name being used. Must be because I subscribe to this thread.

 

Anyway, the IR goggle thing shouldn't be too hard. It would require a little bit of a trick. The IR goggles from JO are nothing like they are in JK. If you want them like they are in JO, that's one thing. I think I would prefer to make them like they are in JK (considering that's how they are in DF as well....kill two birds with one stone). In DF, JK, and MOTS, the IR goggles work the same. If you use them, the perspective stays the same (if you're in 3rd person view, it stays that way, same with first person view). The whole room illuminates in a pale green night vision look. I'm not sure if the DFMOD boys have figured out the IR goggles yet, but I'm thinking something about temporarily & dynamically changing the gamma levels. Of course you'd want to somehow change the color to a pale green to make it look like night vision. However I don't think it would be too hard to do.

 

Then there's the aspect of force sight. First of all, as a fan, I'd prefer to see force sight bringing back brightness. We already have the item illumination thanks to JA code. However in order to make the game effective, you really need to have dark places in your maps. Again I think temporary dynamic gamma correction will suit this. Once the period of effect for Force sight passes, then the gamma levels are returned to the previous point.

 

Since I'm on the topic of force powers:

Force sight will need to reverse the effects of force blindness. Force blindness should not be too difficult. One thing that comes to mind is making it so that it raises the fog levels to almost full. Of course there are other problems inherant to that (such as blinding all NPCs when you do that). However other possibilities are out there.

 

Mind Trick worked differently in JK. I'm not sure how you guys want to do it, but I was never really pleased with mind trick in JO/JA. It was just too narrow. In JK, when you use mind trick, it makes you neutral to all enemies. I think that should be simple to do. Change it so that a script causes you to be playerteam neutral for a set period of time. That way, it would work on "sentient" NPCs, but not affect other neutral NPCs (droids & creatures). Of course, I don't remember if mind trick worked on the dark jedi characters in JK. I'm thinking it did not work. Perhaps you'd have to figure something else out with them, but at least it's a start.

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Yeah, thanks for replying, another person who knows exactly what I'm talking about with regards to the series (not that others don't, but I'm just saying). The Lightsaber really was a like carrying a torch around in JK, and it made for a cool effect. I remember how awesome it looked and felt for example in JK1 to be swimming through those pitch black tunnels with my lightsaber in hand. Now there's something that would take some work to do in JK2/JA.. swimming (no swimming animations, just treading water, though I could be mistaken as HydroBall mod was made, I just never played it), saber that illuminates the area, not just throws a big colored blob below you like the JK2 one or the slightly better JA version...

 

I like darkness in levels, but if you're going to have that you need something for decent illumination. Bringing back the field light, IR goggles, illuminating force seeing and nice glowing (but not gaudy colored blob style) lightsaber would be awesome.

 

Blinding would be radical! :) But of course you need illuminating Seeing to counter that.

 

Force Persuasion made you invisible except for a small trail of sparkles near where your feet would be following you around. None of this targetting specific people, if you didn't have Seeing on, you had to either listen for the sound or look for the sparkles (near impossible to see in the dark or in water or in heavy colored lightning areas in MotS).

 

So many of the force powers were different in JK1/MotS, they were like completely different games. Altered physics too. That's why a DF2 mod would really have to change a lot, it could just be some weapons and textures slapped onto JA to make it "really authentic." Still, I'm all for doing an MP pack before a "Total conversion of the entire Single Player experience" because the levels are so danged huge. And remember how LucasArts complained about all the money they wasted on FMV cutscenes with the live actors (and not just CG stuff). I think it was their last game to do that (other than games that just used clips from the SW films of course).

 

And maybe these things would still be easier than re-creating the "auto map" or overlay map that I miss so badly in JK2/JA. :(

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True, I had forgotten how much changed from JK to MOTS. I always wished that they had made a MOTS upgrade for JK (updating the JK AI, physics, etc...). I loved it the first time, in MOTS, when I force pulled a blaster away from a stormtrooper, only to get the crap punched out of me. It startled me because I was so used to the "run away" reaction that NPCs have in JK.

 

My advice would be to not be 100% authentic in this mod. Of course, I say this taking full pride in the fact that there will be very little authenticity in SOTE MOD (The original game wasn't all that great. We want to make it better than the original). My take is, why make it exactly like the original? A person might as well just play the original then. It's been released, and there's tons of walkthrus on the internet for it.

 

I think you should keep force jump just as it is in JA. I hate how complicated it is in JK/MOTS. It's just not that good. I think you should have saber throw as a force power. It was first introduced in MOTS. I'm not sure if you want to have the three saber forms of JO/JA, or if you want to go with just the one thats in JK. I like the idea of different forms, but at the same time, we're talking about Kyle Katarn, a self-taught Jedi. He's not going to have lightsaber combat fine tuned (which is fine because the Emperor's Hands, which Jerec was one of, were not fully trained as the Sith were.)

 

As for Mind Trick in the original, I do remember that it made the player invisible, but I always interpreted that as more just appearing to be invisible to the enemies. However, if you go with the invisible aspect, then you're in luck. Doesn't mind trick work like that already in JO/JA multiplayer? If I'm not mistaken, there is even a sparkle effect (I'm not so sure because I never really got into JA multiplayer.)

 

JK also didn't have Force Push. Once again that was only introduced in MOTS. I say keep it in the mod. It seems that push was a staple force power in the prequels, so it should be something that is commonly used in force combat.

 

One thing you guys need to think about is how you want to do force pull. I have never liked force pull in JO/JA. At the max power, it pulls everything. You just never see that happen in the movies with pull. I prefer the JK method of target and pull. This allows for pulling a weapon from an attacker, or pulling an item. Also, in JO/JA, it only pulled the weapon/item a short distance, rarely far enough to land in your "hands." However in the movies, we see so many examples of being able to pull something from a considerable distance (Vader pulling Han's blaster in ESB, Luke pulling his lightsaber from the air in ROTJ, Lonestar pulling the mirror in the duel against Dark Helmet.....o.k. bad joke, but it did happen in the same way.)

 

As for dark side powers, I can see you having trouble with force throw. There's really nothing like it in JO/JA. However, it was such a cool force power to have in JK, especially in the Sariss/Yun 2 duel level (light side duel was vs. Sariss, Dark Side duel was vs. Yun). Hopefully OJP will be able to figure something out.

 

I remember how awesome it looked and felt for example in JK1 to be swimming through those pitch black tunnels with my lightsaber in hand.

That's another trick that they'll need to figure out. Right now, lightsabers won't stay lit while under water in JO/JA. I hated that in the Yavin swamp level in JO. If DF2MOD can't get this to work, then it will be very hard to do key parts of this game.

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Screens look great of Nar. I am still waiting to recieve some files to do a trailer video. I also plan to do a real movie durring the process of this mod, and hope to release it beside the mod itself when it is done. Jedispy I wish to do the same with you on Shadows of the Empire mod.

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Jedispy I wish to do the same with you on Shadows of the Empire mod.
We haven't forgotten you. We've had some change overs in the team, and as a result, we lost 2 maps (long story). We've been set back a bit, but very soon we'll have enough content to make a little trailer. I'll let you know when we're ready.
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True, I had forgotten how much changed from JK to MOTS. I always wished that they had made a MOTS upgrade for JK (updating the JK AI, physics, etc...). I loved it the first time, in MOTS, when I force pulled a blaster away from a stormtrooper, only to get the crap punched out of me. It startled me because I was so used to the "run away" reaction that NPCs have in JK.

 

They didn't really change the physics from JK to MotS, at least not that I know of. They changed the force system (now it's "gray side" with different combinations of powers possible, a few powers removed and replaced by others, nixed the morality scale replacing it with "drained force for killing npc's, except if you force push them to their deaths or against a wall, oops!), added a few weapons/weapon enhancements, and added other content (skins, enemy AI, game modes, maps), while removing CTF (in favor of KFY). Making most of the humanoid enemies punch you when their guns are pulled instead of just running away was neat, but really had nothing to do with the game "physics." ;)

 

My advice would be to not be 100% authentic in this mod. Of course, I say this taking full pride in the fact that there will be very little authenticity in SOTE MOD (The original game wasn't all that great. We want to make it better than the original). My take is, why make it exactly like the original? A person might as well just play the original then. It's been released, and there's tons of walkthrus on the internet for it.

 

Well the main reason to do an "upgrade" like this is for ease of use on modern pc's (older games often have problems) and to take advantage of the more advanced graphics. Otherwise it's just for the fun/challenge of doing it. I think authenticity is great, but yeah it is a judgement call in many areas. Still, if it's just cosmetically like the original game, that's not quite as cool as if the gameplay itself is modified so it's more like the original. I'm not saying duplicate the crappy controls of SOTE's "running around fighting mode."

 

I think you should keep force jump just as it is in JA. I hate how complicated it is in JK/MOTS. It's just not that good.

 

See, I felt just the oppposite about it when I first played Jedi Outcast. Before you held the button down (with that awesome sound effect) for how high you wanted to jump. And you had a seperate button for jump. Now suddenly you have to just lightly and quickly tap the button to do a normal jump, and hold it down to do your full force jump which is dumbed down and super floaty (before you had to be skillful so as not to crack your head on the ceiling or jump too high and land badly, doing damage to yourself). It took me a while to get used to the new system, as I'd been playing JK/MotS for 3 1/2 years.

 

I think you should have saber throw as a force power. It was first introduced in MOTS.

 

It was a force power in JK2/JA as well. But you're saying it should be a seperate button, rather than just used with secondary attack for the saber, right? In JK1/MotS secondary fire for the saber was the famous "double swing" and you had a seperate button for Saber Throw. There was no variance with it (the higher levels of ST just reduced the mana usage). It was an on/off kind of thing (fire and forget).

 

As for Mind Trick in the original, I do remember that it made the player invisible, but I always interpreted that as more just appearing to be invisible to the enemies. However, if you go with the invisible aspect, then you're in luck. Doesn't mind trick work like that already in JO/JA multiplayer? If I'm not mistaken, there is even a sparkle effect (I'm not so sure because I never really got into JA multiplayer.)

 

I don't remember if it worked on droids or not, but you could test that. ;)

Basically in JK1/MotS you became invisible but there was a trail of sparklies that appeared where you were and followed you around. A person could look for these and see you (sort of). In JK2/JA it was different. Instead of you being automatically invisible to everyone (so everyone had to turn on seeing), you had to specifically target a person to mind trick them, and the sparklies appeared above that person's head, to show that only that person was unable to see you. If you forgot to target somebody, they wouldn't be mind tricked. In the higher levels of MT in JK2/JA you could mind trick larger groups of people automatically, but the power was much weaker since as soon as you attacked them or were hit you were revealed. Plus in JA, even at the highest level, it didn't MT everyone on the map, only within a certain radius (though large). In JK1/MotS the higher levels only affected mana usage and power duration. It was always a "make yourself invisible to everyone on the map except for seeing the little trail of sparklies and the sound effect," that was totally negated by seeing.

 

Also recall that in JK1/MotS you couldn't toggle off powers (except for Absorb). Everything was fire and forget with a fixed duration based on the level (or if you only had enough mana for a certain duration), so you had to use them much more wisely.

 

JK also didn't have Force Push. Once again that was only introduced in MOTS. I say keep it in the mod. It seems that push was a staple force power in the prequels, so it should be something that is commonly used in force combat.

 

Right, but Force Push in MotS was different in that it was a targetted power. JK2/JA don't really do targetting the same way. In JK2/JA it's more like a gun, aim at them and hit the button and it immediately works. In JK1/MotS you held down the key while aiming and a color coded reticle appeared on your target (green for light side = blind, blue for neutral powers like push/pull but also for chain lightning, red for powers like grip, and throw in JK1). Then release the key to launch the power. This made it easier to select your target, though it also meant you couldn't spam the power as easily (however there were a few glitches wherein you could exploit this, like so-called "super grip" which was really the only one that could confer and advantage, the rest just drained your own mana super fast when used).

 

One thing you guys need to think about is how you want to do force pull. I have never liked force pull in JO/JA. At the max power, it pulls everything.

 

In JK1/MotS you could use it to pull world objects, and to pull guns directly from the enemy (you could pull away EVERYTHING except their lightsaber, unless they were a non-Jedi in MotS, then you could pull their lightsaber but not their "main weapon" like the ST Rifle for Scout, Carbonite Gun for Bounty Hunter or Rail Detonator for Soldier). You never pulled bodies. Absorb countered it. And you'd pull away only one handheld explosive (in JK2/JA you pulled one pickups worth of them, like 3 TD's IIRC).

 

You just never see that happen in the movies with pull.

 

True. In JK2 they made Pull the opposite of Push. In the movies it's always to pull a smaller object to the Jedi/Sith in question.

 

I prefer the JK method of target and pull. This allows for pulling a weapon from an attacker, or pulling an item.

 

Agreed. It feels more skillful and fine-tuned.

 

As for dark side powers, I can see you having trouble with force throw. There's really nothing like it in JO/JA. However, it was such a cool force power to have in JK, especially in the Sariss/Yun 2 duel level (light side duel was vs. Sariss, Dark Side duel was vs. Yun). Hopefully OJP will be able to figure something out.

 

I've thought about this one a lot. Of course if we are duplicating the JK1 maps, we could just place throwable objects (crates, sharp rock debris) in all the maps to make it useful. Another solution I thought of was to make pickup items and weapons actually be the "throwable objects." When you'd use the power, any nearby pickups would get "throw" at the person, and they would temporarily become "dangerous" solid objects that would hurt anyone they hit (remember Force Throw could affect multiple opponents and even yourself). But once they landed safely on the ground again they would become "safe." Also since they were moved, just like with pulling world objects, they would eventually disappear (in JK1/MotS you could "deny" pickups to your enemy by force pulling them for example, so they'd disappear and you'd have to wait for them to respawn).

 

That's another trick that they'll need to figure out. Right now, lightsabers won't stay lit while under water in JO/JA. I hated that in the Yavin swamp level in JO. If DF2MOD can't get this to work, then it will be very hard to do key parts of this game.

 

I agree. However, there was that (inaccurately mapped but oh well) Canyon Oasis remake for JK2 that let you go in water with your lightsaber lit. It seemed to work there, so why not elsewhere? The swimming needs to be added back in though. The "treading water while under water" thing just sucks. We need the swimming animations back... so check Hydroball 2 for JA and see what they did, if any anything about this! (Hydroball used fists under water, but the swimming animations may be in there, I don't know).

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Hey guys I know I'm not suposted to put this here but I had a idea and I was wondering if anyone could do it for me. I had a idea can someone make a SP mod where you play as Desann before JO. You could start out as a Jedi in training and maybe do one mission and the in a training session you kill one of your fellow Jedi in cold blood and then you flee like luke says in the cutscene. Then you could start learning powers of the dark side, then when your almost as strong as you are in JO you could find and start training Tavion. So the Jedi are trying to hunt you down and you and Tavion kill every Jedi across your path for greater power and then you meet up with Galak and start trying to infuse soliders with the power of the force which begins JO. It could be only 3 or 4 levels long but what do you guys think??? Anyone want to do it??? cause I'm no good at this type of thing but I love SP mods.

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