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An Idea to get LEC to uncancel S&M2 (Maybe)


Bobo Donkey™
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After careful evaluation of the stuff goin on with LucasArts and their disregard for adventure games, I have thought of something (please forgive me if it sounds like I'm speaking crap, but I'm slightly drunk just as I'm typing this).

 

I'm saying that because LucasArts couldnt give a damn about adventure games, it seems like they are abandoning them.

Therefore they might as well be considered "abandonware".

We should have a serious discussion about this as I suggest that some of us (or someone) host an abandonware site purely for LucasArts games.

 

The good thing about this is that we could use this to blackmail LucasArts into uncanceling Sam & Max.

The bad news is, Ron Gilbert and all the other guys who created those games might be kinda upset (either that or I just feel guilty because it their games) or LucasArts might ignore the blackmail and just sue me anyway (or you, if you decide to host them).

 

Like I said, this should be discussed first before we all agree on it.

 

I'm gonna go get another beer and then join the party (Its grampas 80th birthday today and hes a rather wonderful guy)

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I don't think LucasArts will really care if we do that...

 

I am almost certain we won't be able to persuade them with things like that.... They will be making enough money anway, and won't care about that. If anything, it will make the situation worse, by making less people buy adventure games, and more people download them, so LucasArts think they are even more unpopular

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Nope, that's no good. Thanks for trying, though.

 

Reason: LucasArts are still selling their old adventure games, so they're not abandoned. Without even looking very hard, I can find at least the following in their online store: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Sam & Max, Day of the Tentacle, Grim Fandango, Full Throttle, Escape from Monkey Island and Curse of Monkey Island.

I think it's safe to say the others are available to those who actually ask (I did once and was promptly given the answer that yes, they were available even though they were not listed, but only within the US / Canada).

So given LucasArts history of fiercely defending their adventures from the "abandonware" label, I think it's safe to say anyone attempting such a thing would be sued before he could say "I'm Guybrush Threepwood". They're NOT abandoned, and that, as they say, is that.

 

Strangely enough, the Sam & Max / Full Throttle available now are NOT the Windows versions. The LucasArts Archives with the Windows versions has been replaced by the older DOS versions. Odd. Very odd. Anyone got more info on that?

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I'm intrigued, how is this helping getting Sam n Max uncancelled, what kind of leverage is a threat that you'll open a site for downloading LucasArts games. I mean, if you do threaten them with this, they'll just counter by threatening to sue you if you do, and considering LucasArts is owned by George Lucas, I'm pretty sure getting really good legal representaion won't be hard for them, where as you probably couldn't afford a free lawyer.

 

Alltogether a bad idea.

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Perhaps an alternative solution (I'll probably regret this suggestion when I've sobered up because its sounds stupid)

 

Make fan games that are EXACT copys of the original. But I suppose that'd be useless too.

 

If i could magically become the predisent of LA then I'd make then uncancel it (Ihats what evry1 would do thiough)

 

I think its time for another beer. Dicsuss this stuff some more. Amd mabye we can kome up with a bettre idea.

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Originally posted by James Isaac

If we make exact copies then that is copying their copyright material.

 

EXACTLY. If they tell us to take these fan games down, then they have to promise to uncancel Sam & Max. By doing this we could also show them the online petition and other stuff that shows that we want it. But then again, they might just ignore these "Fan games" in the same way they ignore the other stuff that I mentioned.

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Still, I think "more fan games" is a good idea. Trouble is, Sam & Max is owned by Steve Purcell - we could get his permission, I suppose.

 

As for President, that position is still vacant since Simon Jeffery abruptly left, and a drunk donkey can do the job as well as Emperor Nelson, so go for it.

 

Unfortunately, while I love the optimism, there have already been dozens of good reasons to un-cancel the game slung in LucasArts' direction, and they've ignored all of them because it's easier to put their fingers in their ears and go "la la la, I'm not listening, la la la" and rely on their Star Wars games to get the cash.

 

To recount the availability situation, here in the UK you can pick up Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine, Grim Fandango, Curse of Monkey Island, Escape From Monkey Island, The Dig and Full Throttle all easily, with a recent Sam & Max/Day of the Tentacle double pack lurking around in a few shops too.

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It's annoying to get the games in the U.S. You're lucky if you can find EMI, CMI, or Grim in its jewel case only version in a store. If you want anything older, you can buy Sam & Max, Fate of Atlantis, and DOTT in a 30 dollar compilation only available at the LucasArts company store. Anything older than that...eBay.

 

Go us. :~

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Originally posted by idi0t

They DON'T have to promise anything. No one is that stupid. You sound like a kid who's got no idea what he's talking about.

 

It's ILLEGAL!

 

You'd sound like a kid too if you were in the middle of a party, which by the way is still going on, and slowly getting more drunk by the minute (or eating salted rice, which is what i'm doing just now)

 

Originally posted by The Tingler(Thats a cool name)

Still, I think "more fan games" is a good idea. Trouble is, Sam & Max is owned by Steve Purcell - we could get his permission, I suppose.

Thanx. Someone who AGREES with one of my ideas.

 

As for President, that position is still vacant since Simon Jeffery abruptly left, and a drunk donkey can do the job as well as Emperor Nelson, so go for it.

You need to remember to add a ™ when referring to me. Theres a difference between donkeys and Donkey™s. Wait a minute... What do you mean EMPEROR Nelson? And what about me doing AS GOOD AS him? I'd do BETTER than that gimp. For one thing I'd uncancel it. But me controlling LucasArts is about as likely as them uncancelling Sam & Max.

 

Wow. Me starting a thread, then getting severyl replies, then replying a few times ALL ON THE SAME DAY WHEN A PARTY IS GOING ON!! This is a first for me and I think I shall go grab another beer to celebrate.

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Originally posted by Mafiozi

we should just buy more their adventures, then they will se that everyone still cares about adventure games, and uncancel teh Sam & MAx, unles they made it very bad as with Full Throttle 2:deathii:

 

You have a good point Mafiozi. I must congratulate you on that. Now its time to go get that beer.

 

Just picked it up from the bathtub. Its full of beers surrounded by cold water, rather clever eh. I should've brought my bottle opener cause the one I used to open teh botle is rather ****e.

Then again I didnt quite expect this computer 2 be here other wise i might've bvrought my andveture games and uploadedthem onto my site.

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I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

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Originally posted by SamNMax

I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

 

Well, I hate you.

 

The last adventure game LucasArts made was EMI. That was in 2000. Freelance Police would have been the first point n' click game since CMI. How many Star Wars games have been made since then, and are still being made? How many of them were good? It's the adventure genre that made LucasArts what it is today, not generic Star Wars shooters. The biggest clincher of the situation is the fact that Freelance Police was practically finished development. It's not like LucasArts announced the ****ing game a month ago. Even if the game sold poorly, it would have recouped SOME of the money instead of none of it which is exactly how much they're getting back now. And despite what you believe or want to believe, Sam & Max has a following, and the game, with proper marketing, would have undoubtedly attracted new gamers. Even a Monkey Island game could scare newcomers because it's part of a series, but with Sam & Max they could jump right in. LucasArts canceled the game because they're a bunch of bastards (there may have been some other reasons, but there's no point in bringing that up). While I agree that there's no way LucasArts will bring the game back no matter how many complaints they get, your stance that it was the "right thing to do" is so beyond stupid that I fear you're a LucasArts employee. And you basically just said that Star Wars is good because it makes money. Yes, LucasArts will make money, but they still lost all of their dignity and they still suck. Hard.

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Originally posted by SamNMax

I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

 

I DONT BELEIVE WHAT I AM HEARING HERE. ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM. WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS NOTHING BUT BLASPHEMY. SO THINK TWICE BEFORE SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT.

 

I'm getting another beer. Don't try to stop me anyone.

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Tim Schafer once said that he'd rather his old games were distributed for free than that they were forgotten. Not that Bobo Donkeys idea is any good.

 

Seriously, dude, you need to get a life. You're at a party for Christsakes. What the hell are you doing talking about Sam and Max 2 on the internet for?? When I go out I don't think about LucasArts at all, let alone find a PC and post about it on a forum. Go pull, or at least try. The other think is, when the rest of us go out, we don't post about it. Its not a big thing. You've made a contradiction in terms - you're letting us know that you're not one of these internet geeks who never gets out - you're at a party! But, you're spending the party posting on LucasForums. For shame.

 

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

 

And, FelixTheBat - real MI3? Do you really think you could make a better game than CMI? I'd love to see you try, man.. really. I mean, even you admit CMI is excellent.

 

On a serious note, LucasArts don't like fangames. They close most of them down. Why? Because nine times out of ten, they suck. Even if someone made a brilliant fangame and it wasn't shut down, don't think that LucasArts would suddenly realise the "error of their ways" - the game could be played by millions, the fact is it will be free. I don't want to play Half Life 2*, I don't want to buy it. They will make no money from me. But if it was free I'd download it and give it a go - because its free.

 

* Blantant lie

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I thought it was Dave Grossman that said that. Ah well I knew it was one of them anyway. Last year I emailed Steve Stamatiadis with a link to Amazon Queen on an abandonware site and asked him his opinion. This is what he said.

 

Abandonware is a term made up so that people don't feel bad when they pirate games which is what is technically what is happening. That said it's a lot harder for a publisher or developer to keep a game running on newer hardware. I guess I'm in the middle ground - it's wrong but I think people should be able to play old games. That's why we've released the FotAQ souce code to the Scumm VM guys to release as freeware.

 

I dont quite like what you are saying about me. I DO have a life. I use it in a number of ways. I could be on the internet, I could be at a party but this is the FIRST time I have ever gone on the internet during a party. Its not like I'm DEAD or anything. Besides, I said it was my Grampa's birthday party. One of those FAMILY parties. I dont wanna try and pull when my parents are around (and if I did, who would I pull?). So think twice before mocking me (or anyone else in my situation, for that matter).

 

However, you have made a good point about fangames, so you're comment isnt all that bad.

 

(And to make a REAL MI3, we should get Ron Gilbert to help us)

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Oh, yeah, I forgot about the famous LucasArts Fangame Purge before the release of EFMI.

 

Is that party over yet?

 

I couldn't care less about a REAL MI3, I loved both post-Gilbert MIs. Wouldn't mind him back for MI5, but I'm still suspicious of the amount of praise he gets for just those two games. I mean, Tim Schafer was top on the writing list in MI2.

 

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

 

You're just trying to stir up controversy in this site, aren't you?

You're right, it's a just a game, but it's also unique. Adventure games are all but deaed, and Humorous games are hard to find.

I admit, we're all speculating on how good it was going to be - it could have been rubbish, although I find that hard to believe.

 

A game is a game, a movie is a movie, a painting is a painting, life goes on... is that what you're saying?

 

Yes, there are other story-driven games I'm looking forward to. Wind Waker 2, KOTOR2 (if the new development team doesn't ruin it), Half-Life 2, BASS2, Doom3, Thief: Deadly Shadows... but I'd like a good comedy in there. Something that forces me to think about solving puzzles that don't require just pushing a button, pulling a lever or moving a crate.

 

Ah well. Guess it'll never happen. Something truly unique in the games lineup for this year has been lost. Life goes on.

 

(In case you're wondering, I went out Friday night and got pissed - I'm fine now)

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Originally posted by LucasTones

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

 

Yeah, but it would have been a really, really, really good game, and it would have had Sam & Max in it. I seriously haven't gotten over it yet...

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I'm not trying to stir up contraversy at all, I'm just expressing an opinion. Obviously I'd rather Sam and Max 2 was completed and released, but its not going to have a major effect on me now that its cancelled. I emailed Randy Breen, or whatever his name is, and expressed my opinion to him at the time - it was a bad decision, and its sad to see LucasArts reduced to its current state. My simple point is, there is no shortage of good games to play, and I don't just mean the new ones. There are hundreds of games released every year, and I buy maybe ten at most. By my reckoning, there are at least 500 above-average games I've never played.

 

Okay, Bobo, sorry. I just didn't get why you mentioned beer in all of your posts. No offence intended :)

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Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™

I DONT BELEIVE WHAT I AM HEARING HERE. ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM. WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS NOTHING BUT BLASPHEMY. SO THINK TWICE BEFORE SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT.

Yeah, adventure games are dead. They don't sell well, and lots of companys quit making them. Eventually no companys will make them and that will be the last nail in the coffin.

 

ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM.

 

As long as we keep playing them. Well, consider this: When the time comes to never make another adventure game, the old classics will be taken off the shelves as well. And when all those adventure games that your playing to keep the lost cause alive will have to crap out sooner or later. So, the games are broke, they're not on sale anymore, and your forced to give up the cause. Then what?

 

 

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

 

I love you

 

The last adventure game LucasArts made was EMI. That was in 2000. Freelance Police would have been the first point n' click game since CMI. How many Star Wars games have been made since then, and are still being made? How many of them were good? It's the adventure genre that made LucasArts what it is today, not generic Star Wars shooters. The biggest clincher of the situation is the fact that Freelance Police was practically finished development. It's not like LucasArts announced the ****ing game a month ago. Even if the game sold poorly, it would have recouped SOME of the money instead of none of it which is exactly how much they're getting back now. And despite what you believe or want to believe, Sam & Max has a following, and the game, with proper marketing, would have undoubtedly attracted new gamers. Even a Monkey Island game could scare newcomers because it's part of a series, but with Sam & Max they could jump right in. LucasArts canceled the game because they're a bunch of bastards (there may have been some other reasons, but there's no point in bringing that up). While I agree that there's no way LucasArts will bring the game back no matter how many complaints they get, your stance that it was the "right thing to do" is so beyond stupid that I fear you're a LucasArts employee. And you basically just said that Star Wars is good because it makes money. Yes, LucasArts will make money, but they still lost all of their dignity and they still suck. Hard.

 

I do agree with you that when a game's 80% done, you might as well finish it. But again, you have to admit, no one would buy it. And you bring up EMI. Well, remember how excited everyone was about it's announcement? And you finnaly played it and most people were enourmously disappointed? Well, for that reason, I belive that Lucasarts has lost their touch when it comes to adventure games and that is why they're so dependent on Star Wars games.

And by the way, the EMI disappointment and Sam And Max cansallation; would SNM2 take the same route as EMI? Would people complain that SNM2 wasn't nearly as good as they thought it would?

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Here's my opinion:

 

For those who say adventure games are dead: that is a flat out lie. Big business heads just don't see it and feel safer surrounded by piles and piles of Star Wars trash, because they know that it makes money. Nobody takes risks anymore, and that's why adventure games are dead and are being over run by endless amounts of ridiculous shooters, RPGs, so on.

 

To make an adventure game means to take a chance on people buying it, just because it's different. Any sales department person knows that there are geeks and nerds out there who will buy any game with a Star Wars label, or if the game has a picture of some idiot waving a gun around on the front.

 

A poll said that in 2002, 14 games that were not sequels or were original were released, and in 2003, only two. Isn't that depressing?

 

If Lucasarts would turn around and change back into the good company that they used to be, to turn into the company that got them to where they stand now, then they would start making quality adventures again. If they started making adventures that were good, again, they'd get a lot of money, and other companies would see it too, and would want to get in on it. Then, and only then, would a revival of adventure games happen, and the final downfall of the first-person shooter genre, the games of which require no thought whatsoever.

 

EMI was only a flop among us fans who had seen better days. Everybody who has it that I know say they love it, and EGM rated it 9.0 out of 10.

 

But back to Sam and Max 2. Lucasarts has heard our deafening cry of complaint and I feel that right now we've done all that we can do. They know now that there are more fans than they originally thought. They need to do something about it, and I believe that they will. Besides, if they meant "put on hold for later" instead of "cancelled" with that press release, we can stop bugging them and trying to blackmail them. This is not the first game in the 35-year-history of video games that has been put on hold to be picked up again in the future.

 

Finally, in closing, I believe they will resurrect Sam and Max 2 in the near future. Call me an idiot all you want but you will not budge my opinion.

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