toms Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 CapN: YOu still seem to be missing the point entirely... i'm not sure if you won't understand, or can't, but it would be nice if you at least tried. Your whole little weird fantasy trip about stopping executions and superpowers seems rather like meaningless rambling to me. But then again maybe i missed an important point burried in there somewhere. I'm sure it made you feel better though. What i would say to the familys has nothing to do with it, i'm not talking to the families am i? I'd say something nice to the family of anyone who died, even if they had been "evil and deserved it". So it is kind of irrelevant. The fact remains that cutting off one person's head had more impact than the deaths of the 90 or so that died yesterday... making it a much "better" way to get your point across, if there is any good way to get your point across with violence, which i doubt. Is "shock and awe" the right phrase? i can't remember.... As for your soldiers who are abusing people, absolutely i tried to understand their midsets. I doubt they were particularly evil people, they were most likely poor, ill educated (like most army recruits) kids who had never been trained in dealing with prisoners, but had been repeatedly told that all "towel-heads" were scumm in order to allow them to kill without regrets (the main aim of all army training). It is completely understandable why they did what they did, and i suspect it was tacitly encouraged by the whole administration. Doesn't make it right, anymore than the perfectly understandable reasons for the terrorist's actions makes them right. I also understand why it is much easier for YOU to see everything in black and white, much as it is easier for them to do. I somehow suspect that had we been born in the mddle east you would be just as stridently defending their actions and I would be just as desperately (and fruitlessly) pleading for you to understand the US point of view, but who knows. We now return you to your regularly scheduled ranting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Do you people have trouble reading names, cuz thats why we have avatars. I WAS THE ONE MAKING THE POINT ABOUT HALF YOU PEOPLE BEING MORALLY BLACK AND WHITE, NOT CAPN Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by toms CapN: YOu still seem to be missing the point entirely... i'm not sure if you won't understand, or can't, but it would be nice if you at least tried. Okay, without using the word moron, or ass, I'm going to try and politely explain this for a third and hopefully final time. I have thought about why this happened. I understand why they feel justified. Does that make it justified though? No. That's all I'm saying. It's really simple. I thought everyone pretty much agreed on that, but I seem to keep getting beat over the head with "you don't even want to try and understand." It's really simple. Killing people sucks, whatever the reason is, with very few exceptions. When you get done trying to tell me why it happens, which I already fookin' know, killing poeple sucks will be at the bottom of the page. Damn that is easy enough for me to get, why I have to keep explaining it to you people, I don't know. Originally posted by toms Your whole little weird fantasy trip about stopping executions and superpowers seems rather like meaningless rambling to me. But then again maybe i missed an important point burried in there somewhere. I'm sure it made you feel better though. Yes, I think I mentioned that I got a good laugh at your expense once already. I even thanked you for it. I did feel much better. Since you missed the point in the long version, here is the condensed easy to read kindergarden version. I thought it would be funny to see some ass try to explain to a man about to be executed why it's better than killing 90 people. And in case you didn't notice the different quotation, the super powers comment was not directed at you. And as far as it being my weird little fantasy goes, I thought I was laying the sarcasm on pretty thick. Originally posted by toms What i would say to the familys has nothing to do with it, i'm not talking to the families am i? I'd say something nice to the family of anyone who died, even if they had been "evil and deserved it". So it is kind of irrelevant. The fact remains that cutting off one person's head had more impact than the deaths of the 90 or so that died yesterday... making it a much "better" way to get your point across, if there is any good way to get your point across with violence, which i doubt. Is "shock and awe" the right phrase? i can't remember.... Ah. I see. It's irrelevant. So you'll get on your computer, and tippity-type things equivalant to "sucks to be them, but I can see why it happened, and it's better than killing 90 people" But IF you were to actually speak to a family member of the deceased it would be "my condolences"? Sorry man, but that's chump. And that's why I thought it relevant. Well, at least we agree that it's doubtful that getting your point across with violence is very productive. And obviously I didn't think you were corresponding with the families of the deceased, which is why I carefully included the word "if". It's a little something I like to call a hypothetical question. You might look into it. So...Yeah...Duh. Originally posted by toms As for your soldiers who are abusing people, absolutely i tried to understand their midsets. I doubt they were particularly evil people, they were most likely poor, ill educated (like most army recruits) kids who had never been trained in dealing with prisoners, but had been repeatedly told that all "towel-heads" were scumm in order to allow them to kill without regrets (the main aim of all army training). It is completely understandable why they did what they did, and i suspect it was tacitly encouraged by the whole administration. Doesn't make it right, anymore than the perfectly understandable reasons for the terrorist's actions makes them right. I also understand why it is much easier for YOU to see everything in black and white, much as it is easier for them to do. I somehow suspect that had we been born in the mddle east you would be just as stridently defending their actions and I would be just as desperately (and fruitlessly) pleading for you to understand the US point of view, but who knows. My biggest complaint about that paragraph is this: Those are not "my soldiers". I didn't get to choose where I was born. I'm glad I happen to live here, but the only thing I share in common with anybody that comes from the United States is just that. You make it sound like I recruited and trained these people or something. Nitpicky, yes. As I'm sure you probably didn't mean it to come off that way. Just a little gripe I have. Other than that, I was suprised and refreshed to read the rest of your comments regarding the mindsets of the troops involved. Although I doubt it's encouraged by the entire administration, I suspect that there is alot of truth to what you said. And that's sad. In closing, I'd like to say that I am in no way trying to plead for someone to understand an Americans point of view. Only mine. If I were born in the middle east, and had an upbringing very similar to the one I was fortunate enough to have here (which I'm certain is next to impossible) I would still think it's crap for people to have their heads hacked off. Just as I think Shock and Awe (yes that's what it's called, but you knew that) is wrong. It's all very black and white, cut and dry and simple to me. War is wrong, killing people is wrong. I'm not a hippy protestor or anything, I know it happens, and will continue to do so. It's just a shame, especially to me, if non combatants are involved. Not that their lives are any more important than a soldiers, just that they don't usually have the chance to defend themselves. That goes for both sides. Hell, that goes for everyone, everywhere, as far as I'm concerned. So kindly take the Uncle Sam hat offa me. Originally posted by toms We now return you to your regularly scheduled ranting.... Actually, I think that about wraps it up for me in this thread. I'm a little irritated with it, what with having to say the same thing over and over. Unless someone specifically calls me out again to say "But CapN, you don't get it!!!" I think I'm done. The floor's yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 But CapN, you don't get it!!! This thread does seem to be going down the gutters though, should we close it or just move it to the senate? It's getting awfully close to be lit on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by toms As for your soldiers who are abusing people, absolutely i tried to understand their midsets. I doubt they were particularly evil people, they were most likely poor, ill educated (like most army recruits) kids who had never been trained in dealing with prisoners, but had been repeatedly told that all "towel-heads" were scumm in order to allow them to kill without regrets (the main aim of all army training). Originally posted by Kain GENERALIZATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS ARE BAD. I think I rest my case. Not all soldiers are ill-educated. I bet that most people join the armed forces because they want to help defend their country. This is the case with most of the people I know who've joined the military. And no, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that there was ever a time in which the main aim of the army training was to kill without regrets. If it was, many soldiers who have been interviewed have failed. The army training is most likely aimed at telling the soldiers that they have to defend their country, but only kill when it stands in the way of freedom. Next of all, I do hope you realize that those soldiers DID NOT represent the United States of America as a whole. That is obvious, has been stated, and must be accepted. Those soldiers were few, and did not in anyway represent how the USA is run, even with people's pathetic ranting of "USA is scum." I bet after this that this thread, like Tyrion said, will either go to the Senate Chambers to be discussed away, or locked and trashed. If this thread goes to the Senate Chambers, it most likely will be left to be burned further, beyond it being lit. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 *lights a match and watches the thread go up in blaze* my work is done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 It's pretty clear that there's no point to this anymore. I'm not moving this to the Senate mostly because this type of crap wouldn't go on in there. *chains thread up* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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