Puzzlebox Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 I don't know about the rest of you but I tend to think almost all of the Expaned Universe content is a bunch of worthless garbage. I really wouldn't mind being accepting of it if it was well written however it just isn't. 1.Shadows of the Empire and a a little bit of it's content. 2.Kotor and a good portion of it's content. 3.Yep short list eh. What EU stuff do you find acceptable and which is the stupidest. What of that should go into the next game(disregard any licence problems)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 1, 2004 Author Share Posted August 1, 2004 http://www.starwars.com/databank/species/yuuzhanvong/eu.html I rest my case. http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/tsavonglah/eu.html oh do I rest my case. That would be my example of the worst and the poster child for Lucas' fetish with royalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 I agree with you but I don't mind EU it is very interesting and how other people outline the past and future events in the galaxy. I doubt they will add much EU into the game except maybe some toybox units for the scenario players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 heh That's just your opinion, which does not mean much to me anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Well Puzzlebox, some EU is bad, but some is pretty good. Some of the worst rubbish from EU is the 'New Jedi Order'. I mean, come on, Yoda tells us that the force permeates everything, yet in the NJO books a planet strips a species of the force - which of course is more beneficial than punishment. I should also point out that there is a lack of creativity on behalf of the EU, for example the Yuuzhan Vong are almost exactly the same as the Yevetha from the 'Black Fleet Crisis'. Having said that, there are also some very good books. Some of these are the 'X-wing' series, the Tim Zahn books (although i dislike the concept of the anti-force thingys), 'I, Jedi', 'Darksaber' and others of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Add Prince Xixor as a toybox unit. The EU doesn't really offer that much, but it is interesting nonetheless. The only other units I can think of that are worthy of being added are Mara Jade, Durge, and the Yuuzhan Vong. I mean take a look at this list: http://www.starwars.com/databank/appearance/ep0.html . It is pretty lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Finally some intelligent debate now i have an excuse to bother to think about writing in this forum especially since I am in midscheme {My Animation Project } It appears puzzlebox has much in common with me Namely a Tendancy to argue with a venegance with windu and vostok {neither of them are bad guys but it's funny anyway } however the EU issue can be put aside but it appears that windu knows more about EU than he wishes to be known since there is about as much in common between a yeevethan and a yuuzhan vong than there is between a napalm bomb and a toothpick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Sounds to me like you are a Purist, Puzzlebox. Welcome to my cult. In my opinion EU is the single worst thing to happen to the Star Wars Universe. Sure the prequels have a lot of critics, but if anyone thinks Episode I and II have ruined the classic films they obviously have read any EU. It's fine if you like that sort of thing. But you cannot deny that the EU is completely different for the most part from the movies. They are not set in the same Universe: there is the Universe of the Movies; and then there is the Expanded Universe, which although it shares some parts it is for the most part a completely separate one. George Lucas created a wonderful Universe. Few if any EU authors could ever measure up to anything he's created. Windu lists some "good" EU. I admit, although I am the Lord of Purists, I did enjoy the X-Wing novels - they're the only Star Wars books I've read more than once. However, despite their good stories they just aren't proper Star Wars. The Zahn novels are also well written, though even less Star-Warsy. Others I would not recommend to anyone... especially not Darksaber, who's presence on Windu's list is very intriguing... Kevin J Anderson is one of the worst authors I've ever had the displeasure of reading, and although I haven't read Darksaber, I've heard it is infinitely worse than the Jedi Academy Trilogy, which I hold in high regard as the novels that opened my eyes to how crap the majority of EU really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Not all EU is bad. Shadows of the Empire was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 DK is right about the Yev and Vong. If anything, the Vong are Borg rip-offs. And I prefer the EU than the prequels, but the OT rules them all. And no matter what we say, we will never agree. You all may think the EU is crap, I think it's awesome. Nothing you say will change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 DK is right about the Yev and Vong. If anything, the Vong are Borg rip-offs. And I prefer the EU than the prequels, but the OT rules them all. And no matter what we say, we will never agree. You all may think the EU is crap, I think it's awesome. It kept my interest in Sar Wars, and without it, I don't think I would be the Star Wars freak I am. It's gonna be the EU that keeps Star Wars alive after Georgie is done with the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 SWP there isn't much to argue about, the EU overwhelmingly is not Star Wars, if you are going for namesake then okay, but all the namesake is is lucas making money because he let the person do whatever they want with his story while he takes a piece of the pie. Most of these people are silly enthusiasts that can't write. The example I sited with the yu...no, is a prime one, whatever that is it has absolutely nothing to do with Star Wars other than the fact someone gave lucas some money so they could write that in a book and sell it, at which point lucas gets some more money. The theme follows very subtle rules which most writers simply don't get and therefor cannot reproduce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak It's gonna be the EU that keeps Star Wars alive after Georgie is done with the movies. This is the kind of thinking I resent the most. I can't beleve EUFans have so little faith in Star Wars... pretty much all EUFans are under the misguided belief that the only reason Star Wars is still popular is because the EU kept it alive. Give me a break and take a reality check. Star Wars has been endlessly referred to in all sorts of popular culture even before the prequels were released. My favourite examples come from The Simpsons and South Park. To cite all of them would take forever, but my favourite references are The Simpsons "I bent my Wookiee" and South Park's "Chewbacca Defense". I'm willing to bet neither Matt Groening nor Trey Parker and Matt Stone are EUFans and to tell the truth I don't think they've read a page of EU in their lives. But I doubt even more that they under the illusion that the only people to get all their Star Wars jokes are EUFans. I've said before, it's fine if you enjoy EU, but don't think Star Wars owes the EU anything, or that they could even both be part of the same Universe. Sorry Phreak, you know I have nothing against you, but you also know EU debates really get me fired up, and when anyone tries to claim Star Wars is alive today because of EU I just lose it. deep breaths... ah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 I guess I should clarify, EU keeps Star Wars alive for me. And the games too. The movies get old after so much rewatching. I watch them everyonce in a while, just this week I watched the OT. I think most people hate the authors because those people have a "higher standard" for writing, but frankly, I hate english, literature, and that junk. As long as the book is entertaining, I'll read it. I'm sure if I really didn't like debates (especially on forums since it lets people write extremely long posts which take forever to reply to), and weren't so lazy, I'd get all fired up and really give a damn, but I don't. Especially when I think debates should be settled with knife fights so if we're lucky, both sides kill each other and shut the hell up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Vostok - you really should read books before criticising them. Darksaber really is pretty good. Getting back to the point, I agree with Vostok that EU just doesnt fit with the films to make a single unified universe. For example - EU: Dreadnoughts as part of Republic Military prior to Clone Wars - Films: Republic Military created FOR Clone Wars - EU: Boba Fett survived Sarlacc Pit - Films (Lucas): Boba Fett died in Sarlacc Pit - EU: Clones 'feel' funny to Luke Skywalker (Heir to the Empire) - Films: All Stormtroopers are clones - EU: Bevil Lemsip designed Death Star, oh wait, no, that Sienar guy designed the Death Star - Films: Geonosians designed the Death Star - EU: lots of big wars between the formation of the Republic and the Empire - Films (prior to Clone Wars) "there hasnt been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic" - EU: 'secret' Trade Federation Army - Films: "...the Battle-Hardened Trade Federation Army" (wow, great secret that) Must I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Lucas' plot easily wins out. Boba Fett survives, fine, I like that better, but the writting has to match or come close to the qualities of lucas' I doubt lucas had originally intended to have all the stormtroopers as clones and this may indeed change so that doesn't count towards anything. It's better that the Geonosians did. Again the writting, if it is written well and falls in line with the subtle rules and doesn't touch the movies fine. Droids can't really be battle hardened; that was just an intended meaningless descriptive that might have got stuck in the mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Lucas should not sell the brand name to outsiders and go and change the story once he starts making a film about it. If EU and the movies fit into a nice timeframe this thread would probably not even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 The stormtroopers may b e clones, but Jango must be pretty pissed off in his grave if the clones can't even hit the broad side of a barn As for the Death Star. It can be that the Geonosians designed it, but Bevel improved it and built it. LF/LL do a pretty good job with Continuity, and there is always a way to make the EU and the films' continuity work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Windu what you said in itslef certain elements are conflicting. Full Scale war define full scale war for us windu. Proove that all stormtroopers are clones if they were all clones then they'd be used as crewers and everything but they are in very short supply mosty of the time and are only in force on important projects or areas. Noone ever said Rath Sienar designed the death star your obviusly part of some club that creates flase stuff since no book purports Rath Sienar's participation in the death star. and by the way it's Lemelisk. There's actually some controversy about lemelisk some people say he found the designs somepeople say he stole them and loads of other theories. Battle hardened in comparison to the naboo forces and also the fact that the droids were originally used to fight pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 you really should read books before criticising them. Darksaber really is pretty good.Maybe you're right, still with a plot synopsis like "The Hutts decide to build a Death Star" my Purist sense is tingling. Plus every other one of Kevin J Anderson's books I've read would have been put to better use as toilet paper.I doubt lucas had originally intended to have all the stormtroopers as clones and this may indeed change so that doesn't count towards anything.Actually there are many instances in the classic trilogy to suggest the Stormtroopers are clones, and the subject was debated long before the release of the prequels. Prime examples are the fact that all Stormtroopers seem to have the same voice, and the fact that Leia comments Luke is "a little short for a Stormtrooper."Droids can't really be battle hardenedSure they can. Droids can learn and gain experience the same way humans can. Look at Artoo and Threepio and how they develop throughout the course of the movies.The stormtroopers may b e clones, but Jango must be pretty pissed off in his grave if the clones can't even hit the broad side of a barnThe Stormtroopers aren't necessarily still clones of Jango. After his death, it's entirely possible they hired a new source for the clones. Either that or they used one of the clones as a clone... and we all know clones of clones degrade in quality...LF/LL do a pretty good job with Continuity, and there is always a way to make the EU and the films' continuity work.Lucasfilm and whatever LL stands for are separate entities, and although both owned by Lucas, Lucasfilm is the only one that directly benefits from his presence. If you really believe that "there is always a way to make the EU and the films' continuity work", address all the points Windu brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 LL=LucasLicensing, which I believe does the books. That's just it, there is continuity. - EU: Dreadnoughts as part of Republic Military prior to Clone Wars - Films: Republic Military created FOR Clone Wars Well, how did the republic deal with pirates and the such? Perhaps they were part of security forces. If you speak of the Katana dreadnaughts, I think those were created during the clone wars. I can't remember off the top of my head (been reading too many Clancy books ). - EU: Boba Fett survived Sarlacc Pit - Films (Lucas): Boba Fett died in Sarlacc Pit In the EU, he escapes. It may not be real in Georgie's eyes, but it's continuity for me and the other countless EU fans. - EU: Clones 'feel' funny to Luke Skywalker (Heir to the Empire) - Films: All Stormtroopers are clones I still will never believe all stormtroopers are clones. There's no Kamino in the OT, and there is no mention of his new cloning location. And what about the Imperial Academy? Why would you need one if you had clones? - EU: Bevil Lemsip designed Death Star, oh wait, no, that Sienar guy designed the Death Star - Films: Geonosians designed the Death Star That can still work. The Geonosians designed it, and Bevel maybe stole the idea, or improved it. I remember the DS Prototype was pretty bad. - EU: lots of big wars between the formation of the Republic and the Empire - Films (prior to Clone Wars) "there hasnt been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic" What does that have to do with anything? There are battles between the Empire and New Republic. Which takes place after the Old Republic. - EU: 'secret' Trade Federation Army - Films: "...the Battle-Hardened Trade Federation Army" (wow, great secret that) I don't think it was much of a secret to begin with. Like DK said, they were first built to protect cargo. Perhaps the guy meant that little security army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Thank You SWP as always you speak the truth and one of the proud {misguided} few who will not accept the truth. if anyone needs proof i have a 180GB hard drive and 6 big fat folders overflowing with Official Star Wars Data, that i will gladly show as i have in the case of the Nantex fighter and I may perhaps for windu if he wants his gunship so bad give him a copy of the pages on the gunship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majin Boba Fett Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 What proof? And also, I vaguely remember the gunship thread, but I would be in favor of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Misguided about what? Tha stormtroopers? pffft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Well, how did the republic deal with pirates and the such? Perhaps they were part of security forces. If you speak of the Katana dreadnaughts, I think those were created during the clone wars. I can't remember off the top of my head (been reading too many Clancy books ).Piracy would be dealt with by the Trade Federation, not the Republic. That is one of the reasons the Federation has an army: to protect their trade routes. Other threats would be dealt with by the Jedi.In the EU, he escapes. It may not be real in Georgie's eyes, but it's continuity for me and the other countless EU fans.George is the creator of the Star Wars Universe. If it isn't correct in his eyes, how can it be considered correct at all? Admittedly this isn't a contradiction with the films, merely a contradiction with George Lucas' idea of the films.I still will never believe all stormtroopers are clones. There's no Kamino in the OT, and there is no mention of his new cloning location. And what about the Imperial Academy? Why would you need one if you had clones?I agree with your point on the Stormtroopers, and always have. Certainly not all of them are clones, since the Imperial Academy does exist, but for the most part their forces would be clones. I can imagine, since clones are for the most part superior to guys who have just been trained at the Academy, that clones are the best of the Stormtroopers. Yet I'm fairly sure it's been written in EU that cloning was outlawed or something, which is rediculous seeing that the bulk of the Empire's forces were clones.What does that have to do with anything? There are battles between the Empire and New Republic. Which takes place after the Old Republic.Windu refers to battles that took place between the start of the Republic and the end of the Republic. I can understand how you misinterpreted the semantics though... the battles aren't between the Republic and the Empire, they took place between the formation of the Republic and the formation of the Empire.I don't think it was much of a secret to begin with. Like DK said, they were first built to protect cargo. Perhaps the guy meant that little security army.All the EU refers to the Trade Federation's first major deployment as the Battle of Naboo. While Panaka's statement contradicts this, Qui-Gon's statement that "This is an odd play for the Federation" doesn't. It seems likely that battles in the past that the Federation Army were involved in were possibly against pirates and smugglers, and were well known, but this is the first time they have been used to invade a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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