swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Piracy would be dealt with by the Trade Federation, not the Republic. That is one of the reasons the Federation has an army: to protect their trade routes. Other threats would be dealt with by the Jedi. I meant the Republic. Jedi can handle other threats, but they can't fly though space. The Republic had to have had some sort of security fleet. George is the creator of the Star Wars Universe. If it isn't correct in his eyes, how can it be considered correct at all? Admittedly this isn't a contradiction with the films, merely a contradiction with George Lucas' idea of the films. He still can't come to my face and tell me I can't believe it because he doesn't. Windu refers to battles that took place between the start of the Republic and the end of the Republic. I can understand how you misinterpreted the semantics though... the battles aren't between the Republic and the Empire, they took place between the formation of the Republic and the formation of the Empire. Then I suppose he speaks of the Old Old Republic. With the Sith War, Mandalorian War, and such. I really don't know much about those wars, besides what I read in the Tales of the Jedi comic and KoToR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Jedi can handle other threats, but they can't fly though space. Yes they can. Jedi Starfighters anyone?He still can't come to my face and tell me I can't believe it because he doesn't.No, but you can accept that Star Wars and EU are separate things that don't agree with each other.Then I suppose he speaks of the Old Old Republic.There is only one Republic. The Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Yes they can. Jedi Starfighters anyone? I meant in the figurative sense The finished model of the Jedi starfighter was unveiled just a few weeks prior to the outbreak of the Clone Wars. Project Engineer Walex Blissex led the crack team of engineers that developed the Delta-7 Aethersprite starfighter at the Kuat Systems Engineering Facilities. They didn't have the Jedi Starfighter til right before the Clone Wars. What did they use before then? There is only one Republic. The Republic. Yeah, but 4000 years, and several Wars difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 If they didn't have the Jedi Starfighters before the Clone Wars (which is debatable since your source is EU), then they probably didn't need any: 1. If pirates attack trade routes, the Trade Federation deals with them. 2. If pirates or any other hostile space force attacks a planet, they have their own defences for the most part - for example the peaceful planet of Naboo still has enough fighters to take out any pirate threat. No other situations would arise, because no-one has a decent sized army - apart from the Trade Federation, and later all of the Commerce Guilds. Thus, no need for a Republic-run security force, and certainly no need for a Katana fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I can tell you presicsely what they used they used the Judiciary Department's Lancet class fighter. I assume vostok is going off bail organa's claim about no standing army. But he never said anything about a fleet. What about systems that wern't part of the republic well not system more like regions like the Senex Juves Sectors they had a large standing military sp of course the republc would have had to keep some force. I believ Republic security forces or the Judicial department helped fill that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Phreak, Viceroy - the problem here is that you two are using EU to defend EU - it doesnt work that way. Death Star - actually, Viceroy, the book 'Rogue Planet' refers to a Death Star design by Sienar. Having said that, the JA trilogy also claims that Palpatine didnt know where the designs came from, which the films proved wrong. Clones/Stormtroopers - actually, i dont recall anything about an 'Imperial Academy' in the films. Regardless, if there was one, it would simply be for Warship crewers/officers, not Stormtroopers. I should note here however that Lucas contradicts himself when in Rotj the Emporer states that a legion of his 'finest troops' are on Endor. Republic Wars - as i said, the films claim that 'there hasnt been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic'. This would seem to refer to a large-scale conflict, and therefore events like the 'Mandolorian War' cant have happened. Republic Military - the Republic had no military prior to the Clone Wars, the films clearly state this. How, therefore, could there have been a Navy and Armoured Vehicles (AT-PT) before that time? Federation - the 'Incredible Cross-sections' book states the Federation Army is a secret. However, since this army is 'battle-hardenec' (been in many conflicts) this simply cannot be true. Spice - in EU, this is claimed to be a version of our hard drugs like Herion, Speed etc. However, i doubt the Jedi, Naboo and Amidala would allow such activities on the moon of Naboo. Jedi Starfighter - at no point in any film is it said when the Jedi Starfighter entered service. Since they look somewhat worn, it is conceivable they have been in service for quite some time. Anything else you two would like to be proved wrong about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Considering since you've yet to prove us wrong i'll ignore that post as a load of old twaddle since you've obviuosly read more EU books than I we conceed to you the Title of EU guru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Viecroy: I suppose it is possible a fleet exists, though it is incredibly unlikely, and very curious we haven't seen or heard any part of it when the Republic is in such a security crisis. If there was a fleet, surely they would have at least sent a single fighter as escort for Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's diplomatic cruiser. In fact it is even more curious that no escort was sent for the shuttle that transported the entire Jedi Council and the Supreme Chancellor when they landed on Naboo, particularly considering losing them would be a terrible loss and that they were landing in what was just recently a battle zone. Surely if any one thing warranted an airborne security escort it was this vessel. Also it's entirely illogical that the Republic would have a sizable security fleet, but no ground force, since a fleet is on the whole pretty useless without ground support. Windu: Luke talks about going to join the Academy like Biggs in A New Hope. However it is entirely possible this academy is only for fighter pilots, though if the Empire was only using Clones for Stormtroopers it stands to reason they'd only use Clones for TIE Fighter Pilots too, since piloting a TIE takes more skill that just being a Stormtrooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Phreak, Viceroy - the problem here is that you two are using EU to defend EU - it doesnt work that way. Yes, it does. EU is part of Star Wars continuity, and I don't care what you say. Clones/Stormtroopers - actually, i dont recall anything about an 'Imperial Academy' in the films. Regardless, if there was one, it would simply be for Warship crewers/officers, not Stormtroopers. I should note here however that Lucas contradicts himself when in Rotj the Emporer states that a legion of his 'finest troops' are on Endor. Then what the hell was Luke whining about in Episode 4? He wanted to run off to the Imperial Academy like Biggs did. Republic Wars - as i said, the films claim that 'there hasnt been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic'. This would seem to refer to a large-scale conflict, and therefore events like the 'Mandolorian War' cant have happened. I'm sure they could come up with something to explain this. That's how they fix conflicts between Movies/EU. Republic Military - the Republic had no military prior to the Clone Wars, the films clearly state this. How, therefore, could there have been a Navy and Armoured Vehicles (AT-PT) before that time? The Police (or as DK mentioned, the Judicals) are not the military. Just like our Police force are not the military. And the AT-PT wasn't created until after the Republic fell, that was pointless. Federation - the 'Incredible Cross-sections' book states the Federation Army is a secret. However, since this army is 'battle-hardenec' (been in many conflicts) this simply cannot be true. Those Pirates we mentioned? That's probably who thye fought against. Spice - in EU, this is claimed to be a version of our hard drugs like Herion, Speed etc. However, i doubt the Jedi, Naboo and Amidala would allow such activities on the moon of Naboo. I belive those were disgruntled spice pirates. Maybe they were pissed off at Naboo, and are harassing them? I don't know the full story about that. Jedi Starfighter - at no point in any film is it said when the Jedi Starfighter entered service. Since they look somewhat worn, it is conceivable they have been in service for quite some time. Well, when it's been in battles, the paint job tends to wear off. Any more bull**** to come up with? You realize this is going no where, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Well we certainly aren't getting anywhere when you say stuff like this: Yes, it does. EU is part of Star Wars continuity, and I don't care what you say.Though it does explain why our completely logical arguments are being ignored - you don't care what we say, you'll go on believing that Star Wars and EU have continuity anyway.The Police (or as DK mentioned, the Judicals) are not the military.Yet the question of why they weren't escorting the Supreme Chancellor and Jedi Council's shuttle still remains.I belive those were disgruntled spice pirates.You believe wrong. They're disgruntled spice miners.Well, when it's been in battles, the paint job tends to wear off.So you agree the EU is incorrect on this point? Okay then... kind of ruins your continuity theory though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 You believe wrong. They're disgruntled spice miners. I was close Still, not all spices are bad. Used in certain ways, they can be used for medical purposes. So you agree the EU is incorrect on this point? Okay then... kind of ruins your continuity theory though... If it was created and used prior to the Clone Wars, it'll wear off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Still, not all spices are bad. Used in certain ways, they can be used for medical purposes. Yes, both EU and the movies support this. Most likely the spice Han Solo smuggles is like an illegal drug, while the spice mined on the moon of Naboo is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 This is the first step towards a middle ground i'm happy that this day has come Purists and Truth Bearer's casn finally start to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 From The Star Wars Databank (http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/delta7/?id=eu): The finished model of the Jedi starfighter was unveiled just a few weeks prior to the outbreak of the Clone Wars. So the "Truth Bearers" disagree with the EU? I guess that proves EU to be wrong then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I think we're not understanding each other here. The Jedi Starfighter was revealed a few weeks prior to the Clone Wars. In those weeks before the Clone War outbreak, those starfighters were probably used. Thus, their new starship smell will have been replaced with sweaty alien Jedi smell and the paint job will wear off. At this point. I think we should agree to drop this discussion, and never bring it up again. And whoever does, shall be stuffed in a sack, beaten, and sacrificed to my Star Wars collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 So you're saying in the two weeks before they were used in the Battle of Geonosis, they were used in some other mysterious battle, accounting for their battle-worn paint jobs? Since they weren't used in any battles prior to Geonosis, they wear on them can't have come from the couple of weeks they were in service. After two weeks a new car still looks and feels like a new car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 A few weeks can range from 2 to 5 weeks or so. In Jedi Starfighter for PS2/XBox, Adi used a Jedi Starfighter to help Nym. And why should it always have to be a battle? Aren't Jedi keepers of the peace? Also, maybe that's just the way it was made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I didn't say it had to be a battle, just that any involvement in a battle in the few weeks would account for the same wear and tear that a year or so of normal peace-keeping use would. But this is a silly argument, because it's all subjective. The only Jedi Starfighter we've seen is the one Obi-Wan used, and it could just be that the last person who used it flew it through a meteor shower and chipped the nice paint job. There are far worse contradictions than the paintjob on a Jedi Starfighter from the EU. As most of you are aware, my favourite one is the ability for ysalamiri to live without the presence of the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 They don't live without the force. It's more like a defensive mechanism, they hide themselves in their "force camo.". Like Palpatine, he manages to keep himself hidden from the Jedi. I don't see how a creature that evolves could manage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Well, you're definition I could live with, because indeed Palpatine conceals himself with the Force. However that's not the way ysalamiri work according to the database: From http://www.starwars.com/databank/creature/ysalamiri/eu.html A single ysalamiri creates a bubble in which the Force cannot be manipulated. In groups, the size of the bubble increases. Vast areas in which the Force cannot be used cover Myrkr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 What's wrong with that? It doesn't say "The force doesn't exist in the bubble." It is just saying that the yslamiri are simply preventing force users from using/manipulating the force. Like tieing your hands behind your back. You can't use them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Okay, so it doesn't say the Force is completely absent from the bubble. But if the Force can't be manipulated, how are they generating the bubble in the first place? I find it very hard to believe this is the same thing Palpatine is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 It's like asking a Drackmarian why it breathes Methane it does it to survive. An ysalmiri Generates The No Force bubble to protect it from the force predators the Vonskyrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I'm not asking why it does it. I'm asking how it does it. Surely if such manipulation of the Force were possible, Jedi could just use bubbles to shield themselves from Sith Lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 No, because then they would lose there force powers also. The Force is not creating that bubble the ysalamiri is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.