A way to include Space Battles in SWGB2

[Darth Windu]

Okay, i was thinking about how to do this a while ago, and did a redesign for my template to include a Space Battle RTS along with the Ground Battle RTS in the one game, but have since removed it as it was far too complex and would likely turn out to be really bad.

 

I have therefore come to the conclusion that the best thing to do is add an RTT Space Battles section. The idea would work like this-

In the 'Conquer the Galaxy' mode, you attack a system/planet. If there is no enemy 'army' present, gameplay automatically goes to Ground Battle and follows from there. If, however, an enemy army is present, gameplay goes to a space RTT. In this, you would have a task force and would have to defeat or cripple the enemy task force. Your strength and your opponents strength would be defined by how many 'armies' are attacking and defending. So if you have two armies attacking and they have one defending, you have roughly double the power of your enemy.

 

Using this system completely eliminates the need for space resources and resource collection, colony/worker/assault ships, and if we are using a 3D engine for the ground component, the same engine is used with a star background and a few planets thrown in.

 

Thoughts?

[swphreak]

Just stick to one. Space or Ground. At this point, I'll take either in a new and improved 3D engine, but I really really want a "Homeworld 2 Star Wars Clone" (I am aware of mods for this game, but frankly they suck).

[Admiral Vostok]

I had also been thinking about integrating the two. What you're suggesting is probably the best idea, though overall I agree with Phreak in that it just won't work well.

 

It's a nice idea, but adding such a huge feature to only the Conquer the Galaxy mode is a bit of a waste of time. Games will just get way too long, and one-off multiplayer games of the kind we get now will be less common. As a result, the multiplayer community will suffer, and we all know it is the MP community that keeps a game alive.

[DK_Viceroy]

Sounds similar to Imperium Galactica 2 which I have often said would make a good starting point so mayube we could develop this idea some more to make it a little less awkward.

[FroZticles]

One or the other I think is the best way. If you have both, space or ground one will be neglected and thats something which we should not see. Space and ground battles in star wars are equally important, even tough after clone wars more people have been focusing on ground battles and ignored space.

[Darth Windu]

Well, with this concept, Ground combat would still be the number 1 feature of the game. In terms of making the game too long and whatnot, the simple solution would be to enable a player to turn space battles on or off.

 

This, is some sense, is like 'Star Trek: Birth of the Federation'. It's an old turn-based game, and it takes a really long time to complete, but it is very addictive. It also has a 'tactical combat' section which allows you to give specific orders to your ships in battle, but can be turned off, with the computer doing the battle for you. The only difference here would be that we skip the space battle altogether.

[Admiral Vostok]

I agree with Froz that trying to fit both in, even to this limited extent will see one or the other suffer. Most likely in this case the space battles will suffer, so why include them at all?

 

However, there is the problem that without an inclusion like this, I don't think a pure space battle Star Wars RTS would work. The reason being is that there just isn't enough decent units.

 

I'm basing this on Homeworld 2, which is the only space RTS I've played. They have a lot of units, far more than Star Wars, even if you use EU. Homeworld 2 has:

- Fighters

- Bombers

- Gunships

- Frigates

- Cruisers

- Capital Ships

And lots more. I'm sure StarWarsPhreak, being the fan he is, can fill it out better than me, who became too bored with the game to get to know it intimately.

 

Here's the units from the movies that could be used in a Space RTS (of course, EU could be added too, but I still don't think there's enough EU to fill all the roles that Homeworld 2 had):

 

Empire

Star Destroyer

Super Star Destroyer

TIE Fighter

TIE Bomber

TIE Interceptor

 

Rebellion

Mon Calamari Cruiser

Medical Frigate

Blockade Runner

X-Wing

Y-Wing

A-Wing

B-Wing

 

Republic

Assault Ship

Jedi Starfighter

 

Separatists

Federation War Freighter (and Droid Control Ship)

Techno Union Rocket

Droid Starfighter

Geonosian Fighter

 

Not much to go on. So essentially my point is that there isn't enough material to make a decent stand-alone Space Battle RTS, but to include it as part of a Ground Battle RTS wouldn't do it justice either.

[FroZticles]

I wish people would stop saying you can turn it on/off........

 

If you have an idea please follow up and not just say you can turn it off and on.

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by FroZticles

I wish people would stop saying you can turn it on/off........

 

If you have an idea please follow up and not just say you can turn it off and on.

Couldn't agree with you more on this one, Froz. Some things, like cheats, should be turned off because they don't make the game competitive. Everything else should be on all the time. You can never please everyone, so don't try to do so by having de-activatable features.

[swphreak]

Amazing how bored I get sometimes...

 

Of course that's just v1.0, coming soon v2.0ptimized! (or not). Unfortunately I don't have my vast home library at my disposal in my dormroom so I did my best.

 

Even with just those ships, I'd play the game... and I'm sure the development teams at LA could come up with enough material in the "Star Wars Ship Database."

 

Ships from EU

Ships/Class/Type Removed

Observe written text

 

*Note, I got most ships from the Star Wars Databank @ http://www.starwars.com

[Darth Windu]

Well in terms of on/off, this would make the concept work even better. If you want a long-winded, hard-fought game, play with space battles on. If you dont want to bother with it, or you only want a quick game, turn them off. As i said, it is much the same with 'Birth of the Federation' during which you can either control battles or let the computer do it for you.

 

As for shiplists, at the moment i have-

Confederacy

- Droid Starfighter Squadron

- Geonosian Starfighter Squadron

- Commerce Guild Rocketship

- Trade Federation Battleship

 

Empire

- TIE Fighter Squadron

- TIE Interceptor Squadron

- TIE Bomber Squadron

- Interdictor Cruiser

- Imperial Star Destroyer

 

Republic

- V-19 Starfighter Squadron

- Naboo N-1 Starfighter Squadron

- Jedi Starfighter Squadron

- Republic Cruiser (armed)

- Dreadnought

- Republic Assault Ship

 

Rebellion

- X-wing Squadron

- A-wing Squadron

- Y-wing Squadron

- B-wing Squadron

- Corellian Corvette

- Escort Frigate

- Mon Calamari Cruiser

 

Naboo

- see Republic. The Naboo are too small to have their own fleet, and hence are part of the Republican forces. In-game they have the same units as the Republic

[Dragonball Fan]

Rebel Alliance-

 

Capital Ships:

MC40 Cruiser

MC80 Cruiser

MC80b Cruiser

MC-90 Cruiser

C90 Corellian Corvette

Home-One Class

 

Fighters:

X-Wing

Y-Wing

A-Wing

B-Wing

E-Wing

 

 

Galactic Empire-

 

Capital Ships:

Super Star destroyer

Imperator Mk I Class Star Destroyer

Imperator Mk II Class Star Destroyer

Imperator Mk III Class Star destroyer

Victory Mk I Class Star destroyer

Victory Mk II Class Star Destroyer

Allegiance-Class Star Destroyer

Wermis-Class Star Destroyer

Shockwave-Class Battlecruiser

( The Empire has MANY more capital ships, just naming a few )

 

Fighters:

TIE l/n ( TIE Fighter )

TIE Interceptor

TIE Advanced Mk I

TIE Advanced Mk II

TIE Advanced Mk III

TIE Advanced Mk IV ( TIE Avenger )

TIE Defender

TIE Bomber

TIE Drone

Shadow Drone

TIE Scimitar

TIE Interdictor

( The Empire has MANY more fighters than this, i'm just naming a few )

[lukeiamyourdad]

Ok...now do that for the Republic and the Confederacy!

[swphreak]

Let's see, Home One is an MC-80 Class Mon Calamari Cruiser. The MC-80b might as well be labelled MC-80 since each MonCal cruiser is unique, and it would take up the whole alphabet to give them all designations.

 

I've never heard of a Mk3 Imperial Star Destroyer. Where did you get that from?

 

Wermis-Class Star Destroyer

Shockwave-Class Battlecruiser

 

I've never heard of those either. Are you sure you didn't just get that from someone's mod list? I just googled some of those ships you mentioned, and I think they're made up ships.

 

After more googling, it seems some of these ships are from comics. I still think some of them are the stupidest ideas ever. I'm trying to keep EU ships to a low for my list. That way, there would hopefully be a wider audience for the game. (yeah yeah, Vostok is rubbing off but just you wait, the Vong shall have it's place in the shiplist soon enough)

 

Windu, that sounds like a total and utter waste of time to even bother with. It would probbaly be better to have them as seperate games, and from a money making perspective, I think LA would do it that way instead of trying to cram a 2 in 1.

[Admiral Vostok]

Well I still maintain there aren't enough ships to do a stand-alone game. XBebop, you can fill it with all that EU but it will start looking remarkably different to the movies and as such sales will suffer.

 

Windu, I think your lists are too long for a combined space/ground implementation but too short for a stand-alone game.

[swphreak]

But if you add some EU units, then it'll be enough. You'll be able to recognize the ships you know, and you'll see a few you've never heard of. It is possible to make a Space RTS. LA has teams at their disposal, I'm sure they could make it work.

 

I still have more Canon ships than EU in my list.

[Darth Windu]

Okay, perhaps i should have explained better. The list i presented is not the full list, it's just what i have at the moment. Basically, most of the fighter craft come directly from the Ground Combat part of the game, keeping a link between the two, and then we add the larger ships. I'd be looking at a list of seven units per side, dictated by the number of film Rebel units. To go over that would require adding a lot of EU units, which i really dont want to do.

 

Phreak - rather than saying it would be a waste of time, it would be far more helpful to me for you to tell me why it would be a waste of time, hence assisting me in correcting the situation.

[swphreak]

errrr..... Read below THIS post, then read back up here :/

 

 

Ah yeah, I remember the Rejuvenator, just never heard of it as the "Mk3."

 

Windu, I'm thinking more along the lines of money making. I'd rather make two great games and sell a lot, instead of trying to cram 2 in 1 (space/ground) and doing a mediocre job and selling fewer.

[DK_Viceroy]

The Imperial Mark III is also nsometimes known as the Rejuvenator Class It was under Development By the Battle Of Bastion and the Prototypes were Used In The Battle Of Mon Calamari where they aquitted themselves admirably noticebale detailes about the design where it's raddially decreased crew compliment from at lest 36,000 to somwhere around 5,000 i think. It also boasted a few more sheild generators and in some cases a completly internal redesign.

 

My sources are my own they are mention in NJO UF and i suspect they will be in the Post NJO Series being released shortly.

[Darth Windu]

Phreak - i see it a different way. Why make two mediocre games that will probably each sell poorly when we can make one great game, using the whole SW universe, which will appeal to all sorts of players and vastly reduce our development and marketing costs?

[FroZticles]

Our marketing and development..... Last time I checked you had nothing to do with LA.

[DK_Viceroy]

I'm personally against each side having millions of space craft maybe in between 10-20 designs.

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by FroZticles

Our marketing and development..... Last time I checked you had nothing to do with LA.

Yes... is there something Windu isn't telling us or has he really become delusional?

 

Windu, you don't have much of an idea of software development, so I'll tell you that from a marketing perspective, two separate titles is far better than a single title. Projects are funded on a project-by-project basis, which rarely takes the scope of the project into account. So two separate titles will effectively recieve twice the funding and support of a single title.

 

So this means the two separate titles will be less-likely to be mediocre than the single title, which is trying to cram more stuff in for less budget.

[DK_Viceroy]

Rarely Vostok if it was a game of a sucessful franchise it would get more funding than a game that isn't part of a franchise, also i think Lucasarts would pour a lot of resources into a Star Wars RTS and if you release two RTS titles those two in essence are competing with each other even though in reality they may not be.

 

I've always thought certain people on this forum where dellusional not just recently aquired of that condition.

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

Rarely Vostok if it was a game of a sucessful franchise it would get more funding than a game that isn't part of a franchise

That's true, I just meant that a combined space/ground Star Wars RTS wouldn't get any more funding than a purely ground or purely space Star Wars RTS.