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Bush got OWNED!!! (Presidential Debate)


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Z, there are a lot of people who see past the media's bs. most prob keep their mouth shut cause the anti-bush party have been out on parade. ;) with any heated discussion, i'm sure there are a lot of people on both sides who keep quite because they feel no need to defend their personal beliefs and refuse to change and jump on the bandwagon for whatever anti-(new terrible thing) group has just popped up.

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Originally posted by Acrylic

In the debate tonight!


From MSNBC's Hardball Website , poll results....



Who won the debate?


* 50147 responses


Pres. Bush



Sen. Kerry





Okay, I watched the debate, and I personally thought Kerry did a superb job. Bush on the other hand....bad job. Really bad. With the silences and not staying on subject. I dont like him. If I was old enough to vote, Id vote for Kerry.


Now, if you didn't watch the debate, DO NOT post your views on this. I only want replies of people that watched it.


EDIT - Added link.


EDIT AGAIN - Well, more people voted. Its at 103,000+ votes. And still, Kerry is at 73%!!!!



Word, I hate Bush!!



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Something I found.




President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry made few major factual errors in last night's debate, although on occasion they stretched the truth or left out inconvenient facts — or may have confused viewers as they spoke in policy shorthand.



Bush, for instance, hailed the coming presidential election in Afghanistan, saying that the fact that 10 million people had registered to vote was a "phenomenal statistic." But Human Rights Watch this week said that figure was inaccurate because of multiple registration of many voters. In a lengthy report, the respected organization also documented how human rights abuses are fueling a pervasive atmosphere of repression and fear in many parts of the country, with voters in many areas having little faith in the secrecy of the balloting and often facing threats and bribes from militia factions.


Kerry repeatedly stated that U.S. forces allowed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to escape during the battle at Tora Bora in 2001 because the administration "outsourced" the task to Afghan militia leaders. This probably overstates the case — it is unclear if bin Laden was at Tora Bora — but it is correct that the Pentagon relied on Afghan proxy forces in an effort to minimize the potential loss of U.S. military lives.



After the Tora Bora fight, as local Afghan militias began withdrawing, considering their part of the war over, top Pentagon authorities appeared ready to send hundreds of conventional ground forces into the White Mountains to press the search for bin Laden and associates. That plan was nixed in favor of offers of money, weapons and cold-weather clothing to sustain Afghan cooperation.


The two men also disputed whether former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein would have been stronger if the United States had not launched an invasion. This is a question that will be long debated by historians, and the answer may never be clear. Bush said it was necessary to disarm Hussein — but the Bush administration invaded Iraq because it believed Hussein was concealing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction and no such weapons have ever been found. Some post-invasion reports have argued that Hussein retained the capability to restart his weapons programs, but many experts consider that doubtful as long as he remained under U.N. sanctions and inspections.


Leap of faith

However, when Kerry says Hussein would have been continually weakened, he is making a leap of faith that the U.N. Security Council would have been willing to continue a sanctions regime that was increasingly unpopular with key nations.


Kerry suggested that the United States has spent $200 billion on Iraq, largely because it supplied the bulk of the troops. This is an exaggeration, because it combines the amount already spent — about $120 billion — with money that is expected to be spent in the coming year or requested by the administration.


But Bush also made an error when he corrected Kerry to say he forgot to mention Poland supplied forces when the invasion began. Kerry said there were three countries —Great Britain, Australia and the United States — and Bush said, "actually he forgot Poland."


Poland later supplied troops, and actually commanded a zone of Iraq. But they were not part of the original ground invasion. And although Bush said there are 30 countries in the coalition, he neglected to say that about a half dozen countries have withdrawn their troops in recent months.


‘Pottery Barn rule’

At another point, Kerry said "Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule: if you break it, you fix it." This anecdote comes from Bob Woodward's book, "Plan of Attack," but actually, Woodward reported that Powell privately talked with aides about the rule that if "you break it, you own it." He did not say this to the president — and it turned out Pottery Barn does not have such a rule.


On North Korea, Bush charged that Kerry's proposal to have direct talks with North Korea would end the six-nation diplomacy that the administration has pursued over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions. Kerry has said he would continue the six-party talks as well, but Bush said direct talks with North Korea would drive away China, a key player in the negotiations.


But each of the other four countries in the talks have held direct talks with North Korea during the six-party process — and China has repeatedly asked the Bush administration to talk directly with North Korea. Moreover, the Bush administration has talked directly to North Korean diplomats on the sidelines of the six-party talks, and Powell met with his North Korean counterpart over the summer.

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Watched the whole thing (well okay I missed a couple minutes in total, but I had to go to the bathroom ;))


I don't think either one got 'schooled'. I do think this was good for Kerry, though, because it gave his side of things some much-needed clarity.


As Bush said at one point in the debate, he doesn't have much new to say. (Paraphrasing here)


I'm voting for Kerry anyway, because of Bush's BS with the constitutional amendment aimed to fire up his conservative fundamentalist voter base who equate being Christian with being Republican. (And don't get me started on his extremist anti-gay agenda. Here's hoping the one million gays who voted for Bush last election take a big chunk out of his votes this time around.)


But anyway, after last night, I do see Kerry as a better choice overall than I did before.


I'd say the debate was a tie, but that Kerry came out on top in terms of achievement.

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Did anyone hear Bush's quote:


"The only thing consistant about my opponent is his inconsistancy."


Now, I like Bush but I was embarassed over this statement and I was just watching it on TV... It sounded kind of childish, as if he didn't know what to say.


All in all, Kerry is the better public speaker, but Bush made some good points.

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Originally posted by ZDawg

well at least we still have afew people who can see past the medias BS.


Oh, because I don't like Bush, I'm unable to see past the media's Bull****?


I don't even pay attention to the media. I formed my own opinion from watching the live debate. And that opinion was that Bush is an idiot.

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Originally posted by InsaneSith

I would like to thank RP for posting the fact checks, you just took a lot of work off my schedule that I was prepared to post. XD


Kudos to you sir.


No problem :D That's what I'm here for.


Overall, Kerry is a much better speaker...but bush did make some very good points.

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Tell you the truth, I can't watch any of the "real" news stations. They're all biased one way or another. So...


I watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart at 11:00 pm on Comedy Central. :emodanc:


Seriously, it's pretty sad when I can get better news from that show than any other station.



I was in no way paid for the above ad.

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Guys, you're misinterpreting the video. It's not that he's not intelligent (I'm not touching that right now :p), it's just that he's not as slick as other politicians. He was trying to avoid answering the question, because no matter what he says the Democrats will use it against him. So it's really a matter of being good with words, which our President most certainly is not. :p

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