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Just a little longer (election day)


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@ZDawg: That's like saying im so smart my body can't keep up.

 

:EDIT:Gaah, Redwing stole my thunder...

 

Anyways, this thing could go either way...Ohio is probably going to go to Bush but if Kerry wins all the other states it's a dead tie. holy crap. :eek: - however, that wont happen because NM is reporting

 

98% counted

52 bush

47 kerry

1% assorted other chocolates in the box

 

so its looking like bush is going to need ohio + NM to wrap this up.

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Whoa!!! I have to say i always expected bush to win (natural pessamist that i am), but then the early results got my hopes up... now i'm kind of depressed that it looks like he will win again.

 

The US seems hopelessly divided between the country and the cities... with one moving into the future and the other moving back into the past.

 

Still, a few of the stats they brought out in the coverage shocked me. About 40% of registered voters being evangelical? :eek: 66% of registered voters believing in creationism and only 28% in evolution? :eek: It is now rather scary from the outside that the most powerful nation on earth should be basically run as a fundamentalist religious state... oh well..

 

Looks like the gay marriage thing passed in a lot of the country states as well. Its odd, but somehow i miss the days of freedom and seperation of church and state...

 

It is obviously a completely different mindset, as religious issues such as abortion or gay marriage wouldn't even get into the top issues that people vote on in most of europe.

 

Not sure why i am so depressed by this, as i always expected it to happen. but somehow, when watching the results, i kept thinking "surely they can't ALL be this blind!".

 

If it is confirmed that bush wins then you guys might get a bit of stick from the rest of the world, as the vast majority were hoping for a change....

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Originally posted by Redwing

No offense, but where the heck do you get off thinking that marriage is a church issue?

 

 

People go to ministers to marry them all the time, man. True, they can do it through the government, but most people do it through a church. (Don't tell me they don't, because I know for a fact they do).

 

As for the rest of the arguements, I'm not going to offer a defense of my part, because frankly I don't care. Bush wins, yay. The guy I voted for wins. Kerry wins, yay. 97% of the people here will have someone new to complain and moan about. I mean really....

 

 

 

And toms, that pic rocks :D

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Originally posted by obi

People go to ministers to marry them all the time, man. True, they can do it through the government, but most people do it through a church. (Don't tell me they don't, because I know for a fact they do).

 

Well yes they get married by a minister in a church, but that's just for ceremony. If you don't get your marriage sanctioned by the STATE then it really means nothing.

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The ceremony, yes. But wouldn't you say that's the most important part of a "union" ? Can you imagine the lawsuits that would come out of a minister's refusal to marry someone because it's a gay couple? It's really something I didn't want to see. Being a minister myself, I would not marry a gay couple, but that's a different arguement for a different time.

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surely a religious marriage and a legal marriage are two totally different things?

One is being married in the eyes of whoever is your god (if you have one)... the other is being married in the eyes of the state (for things like tax calculations, benefit calculations, healthcare and dependents, etc...)

 

I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK the "religious ceremony" has no legal weight, it is the registration of the marriage that has legal weight. (in general, there are a few weird historical rules). Which is why a marriage by a ship's captain, or at a registry office or whatever has just as much legal validity as a marriage in a church.

 

As such, i'd be entirely happy for churches to withold the right to gay marriages in their churches, by their ministers and in the eyes of their god.... after all, it is up to them (or their god) what they count.

However the (seperate) legal state marriage should be entirely unaffected by religious matters. It should be based on legal arguments, equality and the principle that the government should stay out of people's lives unless there is a real need to interfere. (eg, banning incest type marriages for reasons of health, etc..)

 

As such, i don't think there needs to be a national law that defines marriage in a religious-based way. That violates the ideas of equality, religious freedom and seperation of church and state. It should be up to individuals, individual organisations and individual states to make their own decisions.

 

I can't see how, if i am a happily married christian (in the eyes of church and state) it makes any difference to me that two guys down the road are recognised by the state and so will be allowed to make important decisions about each other if they are dying (for example).

 

If an ammendment gets passed, isn't that going to be the first ever constitutional ammendment that WITHDRAWS rights from people, rather than enshrining them?

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The ceremony, yes. But wouldn't you say that's the most important part of a "union" ?

 

o_O Heck no. A ceremony can be done anywhere. There are plenty of ministers who will. It's the RIGHTS that are important, the RIGHTS that matter. That stuff that comes with legal marriage, like sharing property, rights to your spouse and your spouse's benefits, etc.

 

Can you imagine the lawsuits that would come out of a minister's refusal to marry someone because it's a gay couple?

 

Absolutely none. A minister isn't necessary to legally marry someone. Legal marriage is the issue here, not church-validated marriage.

 

I REALLY have to wonder where you did your research, obes :D

 

 

Topic: Ya, I believe Kerry has just finished his concession speech. :/

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Originally posted by TK-8252

I don't think that Bush would issue a draft. That would just be too much for a war on terror.

 

besides, if he does issue a draft here is bound to be aclause where your dad can write you a note to get you out of serving :D

 

Frankly, although like the rest of the world i'm confused and dismayed by the result, i'm really just glad it's over. NOw we can just get back to the business of laughing at bush and lamenting the fact that religious fundamentalists are messing up the world for the rest of us...

 

(and playing gta...)

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