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Pope dead at 84 (confirmed) 4/2/05


Andy867
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Originally posted by Jed

The guy was tough as nails, you've gotta admit that.

 

RIP.

 

He lived to be 84 years as the Pope. I mean, if the thought of guiding 8 billion people to thier salvation isn't enough pressure to send him to his maker early, then surely the threat of being shot/stabbed/poisoned/smoted would've. But no, he lived longer than most regular people do.

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You know the first design of the popemobile had a machine gun in in so the pope could mow down ambushers from inside.
I guess they switched to the flamethrower to save on the cost of bullets eh...

 

He was one of the best popes, if not the best.
Meh, dunno about that. Still, it's not as if he had much competition. I mean, early popes were simply murderous, corrupt and inbred Italian nobility... And later popes include such dubious figures as nazi sympathisers.

 

Being pope != being holy in any way, shape or form.

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Originally posted by Spider AL

I guess they switched to the flamethrower to save on the cost of bullets eh...

 

Meh, dunno about that. Still, it's not as if he had much competition. I mean, early popes were simply murderous, corrupt and inbred Italian nobility... And later popes include such dubious figures as nazi sympathisers.

 

Being pope != being holy in any way, shape or form.

What exactly are you trying to prove? AFAIK, this thread was about the pope's condition, not his or his predecessor's morality or the validity of their faith. We know you dislike religion - you've made yourself quite clear in the past on that topic. It's unnecessary for you to make callous or simply inflammatory remarks here about it.

 

On topic, this is quite unfortunate. :(

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The world mourns his passing today, after all.

 

Watching some documentaries about his life I didn't realize just how hard his early life really was. I knew he was an underground actor during the war, but I didn't realize he lost his family so young, and even his childhood playmates (Jewish boys) were sent off to concentration camps. It seems he became a priest because he felt he had to do something about all the evil in the world that was around him and he felt powerless to stop. Even his training as a priest had to be done in secret because of the occupation in Poland.

 

I always thought that whole "he helped bring about the downfall of communism in Europe" sounded like empty political rhetoric. However, seeing as how charismatic was his personality (not in small part due to his gifts that made him an actor as a young man) it's not hard to imagine how he inspired people like Lech Walesha and others in the Solidarity Movement, etc. He gave people hope, and that's a powerful thing.

 

Even in America where every poll says how many Catholics disagree with this or that teaching of his, they still respect the man for what he's trying to do and holding fast to what he feels is right.

 

And to see him struggling to guide the Church with his last ounce of strength and his last breath, even as disease and age take it away from him, really touched a lot of people. He was elected just a month before I was born, and I often thought he even bore a resemblance to my late grandfather (who passed away a few years ago after a long illness), so I guess he's sort of been a modern symbol of the Church for me.

 

Anyway, here's to you John Paul II, hope you found peace at last...

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Samuel Dravis:

What exactly are you trying to prove?
"Prove"? I was responding to a previous comment. That's what we call "discussion". Just as you chose to respond to my comment. ;)

 

AFAIK, this thread was about the pope's condition, not his or his predecessor's morality or the validity of their faith.
It's a thread about the pope, isn't it? This IS the place to discuss the pope, isn't it?

 

We know you dislike religion - you've made yourself quite clear in the past on that topic.
Wrong again. I've extolled the virtues of several aspects of the Christian faith on these very forums in the past. Your conclusion that I "dislike religion" is overgeneralised, oversimplified and overall, nonsensical.

 

Cap'n:

Yes, and PLEASE stop using pompous, pretentious words like "shambolic".
I'll use what words I like, and I'll use what words I feel I need to... to get my ideas across. Don't flame, Cap'n. It's very immature.

 

We get that you're British. And most of us try not to hold that against you.
Are you anglophobic too? Tsk tsk. Xenophobia is bigotry, you know.

 

Any Moderator watching... please keep an eye on the flamers among us.

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Originally posted by Spider AL

Cap'n:

I'll use what words I like, and I'll use what words I feel I need to... to get my ideas across. Don't flame, Cap'n. It's very immature.

 

I didn't flame. I asked you very politely (note the use of the word PLEASE in all caps) to not use pompous and pretentious words like "shambolic". I could go on to say that you've used it out of context, but that's neither here nor there. If you feel the need to use that word to convey your ideas, there's not much I can do beyond my request.

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

Are you anglophobic too? Tsk tsk. Xenophobia is bigotry, you know.

 

You mean do I dislike or fear English people or their culture? Well sure! Who doesn't? For all the evils you've branded the various popes with doing, all the popes combined don't hold a candle to all of the "shambolic" deeds perpetrated by the English. That and the fact that your accents are goofy, and you all seem to have a snooty, better-than-anyone-else sort of air about you. I guess I should've know you had a keen eye for bigotry and xenophobia though, considering some of the comments you've made about Americans.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

Any Moderator watching... please keep an eye on the flamers among us.

 

Yes. Please do just that.

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a terrible shame the pope is dead, he was a great man who could reach across just about every social barrier there is to reach people and give them hope. As the leader of the catholic church and the most influential christian in the world, he should have been the epitome of everything that i'm against, and indeed some of the views he put forward were consitant with that, but you cant ignore the good work that he did in his life. A shame Christianity as a whole cant be like that.

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Despite his personal views and actions, and the controversial things done in his name, Pope John Paul II was an amazing man and important figure in our history who used his influence to accomplish much good throughout the world. The world has lost a truly remarkable leader of men, and may he now be at peace in a better place.

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He lead an interesting life, that is for sure.

I have a lot of respect for his early life and what he tried to do when he was young, but it was a shame he seemed to forget his fights for freedom and democracy once he became pope and didn't take advantage of the chance to at least slightly open up and democratise the whole setup.

 

In many ways he was the first modern pope, the first to use jet travel and the media (and his acting skills) to spread his image and message. Its just a shame that he didn't carry through this "modern pope" thing to the extent that a lot of people hoped he would when he was selected.

 

I've never really go the whole "fight against communism thing", which if anything was more of a personal hangover from his early years than a christian thing.

 

I'm still of the opinion that he did more evil than good in his time, but that doesn't mean i wanted him to suffer so I'm glad he finally got some peace.

 

They really should bring in some form of semi-retirement for old popes, otherwise with modern medicine they can hang around indefinately while suffering. Surely it would be better for him, if no-one else, if he had been able to spend his last few years in some quiet monastry somewhere?

 

RIP POPE

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It angers me that two days after the guy has died people already want to change what he has set up. The majority of Catholics want a pope that will change things, such as abortion, and to blend in more with the times.

 

Im not Catholic, and I don't agree with a lot of their "traditions(?)", but I do agree with a lot of what has been said recently.

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Originally posted by lukeskywalker1

It angers me that two days after the guy has died people already want to change what he has set up. The majority of Catholics want a pope that will change things, such as abortion, and to blend in more with the times.

It would be very difficult for any change to come about on many such issues, seeing as how their official doctrine is held to be infallible.
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also, he appointed 99% of the people who will choose his successor... so the odds of the new pope being radically different from the old one are slim.

 

And though europe has about 80% of the votes, brazil has the largest catholic population and africa has by far the fastest growing catholic population. And african catholics aren't exactly known for being moderate.... :D

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