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Has anyone stood up to the cheaters yet?


MxBxZ
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So they're JA saber color purists... very strange indeed!

Strange, but true. Would it really be so difficult to add a cvar to disable RGB sabers, though? And what about the 'pimp' saber - does that really have to be there?

 

Why is TrueView "game altering"? It's merely visual. The camera just zooms in on your blade instead of being pulled back.

It alters the view. I know I'm being really picky about this, but if it alters the view, it's possible (however unlikely), that the player will get a better picture of what's going on, therefore giving him/her an advantage. I don't like that. I just like simple basejka abilities.

 

In fact, in basejka you can use the cg_fov cvar to change your view already.

Indeed. I always have it set to 97. Most people don't know of that cvar, though.

 

Get Qtracker. Well, get them both. ;)

Is QTracker better? Or just different?

 

Oh believe me, you'll get killed on Meatgrinder, a lot! Unless you play at some weird hours the rest of us don't.

Good. I've noticed that most of the time, when I check the player list on Meatgrinder, there are only 0-3 humans, though. That reminds me - another thing I dislike about Meatgrinder is the random ping for bots setting. It just annoys me. >_>

 

Honestly the biggest problem with the auto switcher is that it wipes out your score. If it didn't do that (say if it just subtracted one or zero points), people would be a lot less likely to complain. I've told Razor this, but I guess he's got too much else to do.

;)

 

What really needs to be done is it needs to be fixed, but that could be a nice way to ease the transition until it's completed. I know some other mods have added the feature (what happens to your score when you're switched).

Xmod adds that feature. It's not the score that annoys me, though. I don't care what my score is in a CTF game - it's working as a team that counts. I dislike how the team balancer seems to unbalance the teams a lot. For example, we might have an equal number of bots and humans, and an equal score. Suddenly I'll get switched from the team I've been playing with, lose the flag, and suddenly spawn on the other team. Very, very annoying. I then switch back, as I like to play with the team I've been playing with the whole game. I get switched again.

 

I would like a mod that fixes a couple of things:

 

1) In Duel maps, my name will jump 7 spots on the waiting list, then get stuck there until I would normally move. It's kinda odd, and I'll get banned off a game for it one of these days.

I don't know what the problem is there. Strange.

 

2) I'd like to have the Bots play a little more like humans online do. I mean, they never use Grip! Imperial Officer barely uses a lightsaber, he just throws thermal detonators, even when I'm hacking away with the Saber Staff. So we both blow up. The JA version of the suicide bomber... :D

I don't think I've seen any mod that allows bots to use Grip. Even the TAB bots in OJP don't - in fact, they don't seem to use any force powers. As for the Thermal Detonators - that's just set by the bot's personality file. Take a look at the weapon weights. Modify it in another pk3 if you want to change it.

 

Not really a bug fix, but I always thought Det Packs were weak, since you have to keep them out to detonate, making you a frag target. I'd like those Dets to be Proximity Mines, instead. That would also make players think twice before laying multiple ones down next to each other...

Detonation Packs are incredible weapons! If you want proximity mines, just use the Trip Mines secondary fire. Detonation Packs are for laying traps in advance, which is good for protecting the flag.

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Hm. Never thought of that last one. Dets aren't so good for FFA, but if you have a team base to protect, yeah, that'd work.

 

Trip mine secondary. Whoops, forgot about it. I don't take the time to use mines that much. Either I saber or I gun. :rifle1::lsduel: FFA is a bit hectic for that, and you can't do it at all in Duels.

 

I'm not sure how to modify a personality file - I'm still learning to map. But I'll look for it. If I could get a Bot to use Grip, that'd be great. I mean, how many times have I played FFA, only to be choked to death by the enemy? A harsh reminder to invest in Absorb, even at the expense of Protect...

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A harsh reminder to invest in Absorb, even at the expense of Protect...

I don't actually find Protect that useful. If you're fighting a dark-sider, Protect is just asking for trouble. Force Drain can suck away all your force, leaving you vulnerable, and ending your Protect. But it is great for surviving falls, traps, and for mine-jumping.

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Strange, but true. Would it really be so difficult to add a cvar to disable RGB sabers, though? And what about the 'pimp' saber - does that really have to be there?

 

There are rumors you can do the pimp saber with scripting, even without the mod. So it may be a "basejka problem."

 

It alters the view. I know I'm being really picky about this, but if it alters the view, it's possible (however unlikely), that the player will get a better picture of what's going on, therefore giving him/her an advantage. I don't like that. I just like simple basejka abilities.

 

That's silly, it sounds like paranoia! I mean, you'd have to stop people from using cg_fov too, which is in basejka. I can bind a key to "zoom in" already. I don't need any mods for that. So why is this wrong?

 

The only reason that Raven didn't put a first person saber into JA (LIKE THEY DID INTO JK2, both mp AND sp) is because they didn't want to take the extra time to mod in every single combination of arm textures they'd need to make it "look right" with the custom Jedi. However, they never considered (apparently) the possibility of doing it like TrueView, which is just to zoom in to the "eye position" of each model. They were planning to do it the way they did it in JK2, which was to have the internal saber model be two floating forearms with an invisible body, holding the saber. Check out JK2 sometime. Why is it okay to have first person saber there, but not in JA? The only difference is that you can see the rest of your body now (so you actually have less viewspace!).

 

Indeed. I always have it set to 97. Most people don't know of that cvar, though.

 

Ah, so you're "cheating" already. So it's hypocritical for you to condemn the use of TrueView. ;)

 

Is QTracker better? Or just different?

 

Different. It's completely free, so no nag screens to register it (you can register if you want, out of the goodness of your heart by sending Ron some money, but the program doesn't bug you and it's not limited in any way). It doesn't show a number total for servers or players (ASE's "stats"). But it does have mapshots for most games (and you can make your own for ones that are missing or download them when they're completed). It has support for a lot more games (ASE only seems to cover really popular recent ones) including many classics that didn't have dedicated server support (but if you're following a specific IP or LAN game you can see it or launch it from QT). Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure you can launch servers with ASE, but you definately can with QT (and it'll appear on the QT uplink "master server").

 

As far as the number of servers they both grab about the same. QT also has support for "shoutcast" so you can listen to your mp3 radio with it (though he needs to update his list, mostly techno/trance/jazz last time I checked, though there's other stuff in there too).

 

Good. I've noticed that most of the time, when I check the player list on Meatgrinder, there are only 0-3 humans, though. That reminds me - another thing I dislike about Meatgrinder is the random ping for bots setting. It just annoys me. >_>

 

You must check at bad times. I usually see at least six people in there, and many times I've checked and had like 10 or 12 people playing CTF or Holocron. Random ping bots were purposely put into this mod to annoy you. I hope they continue to do so... ;)

 

Xmod adds that feature. It's not the score that annoys me, though. I don't care what my score is in a CTF game - it's working as a team that counts. I dislike how the team balancer seems to unbalance the teams a lot. For example, we might have an equal number of bots and humans, and an equal score. Suddenly I'll get switched from the team I've been playing with, lose the flag, and suddenly spawn on the other team.

 

How does it unbalance the teams? There is actually a cvar in there so that it will sometimes give a team that's behind an extra person. Personally I don't like to do that, but setting 4 doesn't leave you much choice (I think Razor should fix this). Without setting 4, it won't balance the teams with bots and humans. Meaning you could have all the humans but one on one team and then the other guy is forced to use bots for his teammates.

 

It's designed now to switch bots before it switches humans, and to switch the new people before veterans and the low scorers before the high scorers. And it should never switch you when you have the flag. If it's STILL doing that, let me know and we'll bug razor some more!

 

The score thing I mentioned because that's what most people moan about. Usually you get people who just ignore the text message and continually try to switch back for like 5 minutes before complaining though.

 

Very, very annoying. I then switch back, as I like to play with the team I've been playing with the whole game. I get switched again.

 

Well what did you expect? That you could beat the switcher by switching? Everybody tries that, because few people want to leave the winning team... well except the noobs we're doing a favor because they don't know how (and often can't be bothered to learn) to switch teams.

 

Without the team switcher we had people going "teams! teams!" constantly, and people going "omg you only won 'cause you had two more people, nice teams #$@#$" and of course you had people joining the winning team always, or a group of clan guys always banding together no matter what, etc. it just wasn't fun. What's the point of a team game if one team is always way larger than the other or one guy is alone with a team of bots vs. a bunch of others? I WISH I could rely on people to have balanced teams and switch when they needed to, but 6 months of hosting a team based server taught me that most people just don't get it. It's like voting on the server. A fantastic idea, but its too often abused.

 

I don't think I've seen any mod that allows bots to use Grip. Even the TAB bots in OJP don't - in fact, they don't seem to use any force powers. As for the Thermal Detonators - that's just set by the bot's personality file. Take a look at the weapon weights. Modify it in another pk3 if you want to change it.

 

Honestly the TAB bots currently use LESS force than the basejka bots. That's something razor needs to work on if they're going to be any challenge at all. They use Katas, they occasionally use saber throw (by accident), they use the push/pull "block" (which is automatic if they have it anyway), speed, and of course Jump. Nothing else. I distinctly remember the basejka bots used lightning. I can't recall if they used push/pull or if I'm just remembering the AI from SP. In any case, they are better in many ways their their basejka counterparts, but in other ways worse. The biggest advantage of them right now is that they can play Siege and win without help (well except for Hoth).

 

Detonation Packs are incredible weapons! If you want proximity mines, just use the Trip Mines secondary fire. Detonation Packs are for laying traps in advance, which is good for protecting the flag.

 

Exactly.

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Okay thanks. I haven't played with generic bots in so long I've forgotten some of that stuff. And the TAB bots DO still use push to counter grip, forgot to mention that.

 

Obviously we'd want to the bots to at least be able to use the powers they could use before. Razor says it's "tricky" to get them to use force at all. I told him that instant use powers would seem to be the easiest to start with, powers like Team Heal/Energize (that should be automatic on team maps), and heal. Lightning would be a priority too I would think. ;)

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There are rumors you can do the pimp saber with scripting, even without the mod. So it may be a "basejka problem."

I'm pretty sure you can't do that with basejka, as you cannot repeatedly 'spam' the console command.

 

But it does have mapshots for most games (and you can make your own for ones that are missing or download them when they're completed). It has support for a lot more games (ASE only seems to cover really popular recent ones) including many classics that didn't have dedicated server support (but if you're following a specific IP or LAN game you can see it or launch it from QT). Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure you can launch servers with ASE, but you definately can with QT (and it'll appear on the QT uplink "master server").

I think I'll just get QTracker then.

 

You must check at bad times. I usually see at least six people in there, and many times I've checked and had like 10 or 12 people playing CTF or Holocron. Random ping bots were purposely put into this mod to annoy you. I hope they continue to do so... ;)

I check fairly often, and it always has around the same number of people. And what's the point in annoying players? >_> All random ping bots do is confuse beginner players (sometimes they have conversations with them!), and make it seem like there are more players on the server. I'd actually like to be able to instantly see who the bots are and what teams they're on. It is a pointless feature.

 

If it's STILL doing that, let me know and we'll bug razor some more!

It certainly was doing that last time I was there.

 

Well what did you expect? That you could beat the switcher by switching?

I will not be beaten! >_>

 

I would simply like it to be less strict.

 

I distinctly remember the basejka bots used lightning. I can't recall if they used push/pull or if I'm just remembering the AI from SP.

They did.

 

Kurgan, the Bots in baseJAMP use Lightning and Drain. LS characters (Like Alora, surprisingly) use Protect, Absorb, Mind Trick, etc. No Bots I know of use Grip, Pull or Push (Though they will use Push if I Grip them)

They can use Push/Pull when not Gripped, definately. My 'perfect' bot does it so often that it's annoying. I believe basejka bots can use every force power, except Grip and perhaps Dark Rage.

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I'm pretty sure you can't do that with basejka, as you cannot repeatedly 'spam' the console command.

 

Could be. So you can do it, but in a much more limited fashion. Maybe. ;)

 

It's sort of like having black names. Does that annoy you as well? It's something available in the game, and simply expanded upon by many mods. And yet it doesn't affect gameplay, so what's the big deal?

 

I check fairly often, and it always has around the same number of people. And what's the point in annoying players? >_> All random ping bots do is confuse beginner players (sometimes they have conversations with them!), and make it seem like there are more players on the server. I'd actually like to be able to instantly see who the bots are and what teams they're on. It is a pointless feature.

 

Well whatever. Sometimes we have tons of people, sometimes we have very few. It's just your luck I guess. And some gametypes are more popular than others. JM used to be really popular for us, then it fell in popularity and Holocron rose up. CTF used to be unpopular but it's gotten much more popular. Siege remains pretty much the #1 gametype for us in terms of attracting people. I think perhaps once people see how much fun something can be, they come back for more. That's why we've put in TFFA to try to encourage people to play that sadly neglected gametype. About the only gametype that hasn't seemed to have caught on is CTY. You've never seen the kind of whining and piss/moaning as when that gametype is going the first time somebody grabs the flag. ;) Oh well. Then again we haven't really tried to force feed it to them much in the past (usually just one slipped into the CTF cycle).

 

It certainly was doing that last time I was there.

 

The mod was last updated in October IIRC. Were you there since then?

 

I will not be beaten! >_>

 

I would simply like it to be less strict.

 

Everybody thinks that. ;) Then they try swearing at it.

 

How would you make it less strict? It's already on a 30 second delay, and a person is switched for their low time/score. There's not much else to it. As for being switched why carrying something, that should never happen, so that's something that Razor needs to fix. Other than preventing bugs (like the same person being switched back and forth from one team to the other) and removing the "score nuking" I can't see it really changing much. Though I would personally like to have it switch based on balance (and NOT on score) and on human/bots. Switching based on one team being ahead is a bit annoying for me (but some people think it's "more sporting" oh well).

 

For me I don't care if one team is owning, so long as the teams have an equal number of human players (as much as possible anyway).

 

They did.

 

 

They can use Push/Pull when not Gripped, definately. My 'perfect' bot does it so often that it's annoying. I believe basejka bots can use every force power, except Grip and perhaps Dark Rage.

 

Okay. Yeah, that's a shame. I want the bots to be able to do everything a human can do (that's the point right?) and be smart. ;)

 

I had some kick a$$ bots back in the day too, and I used them on meatgrinder all the time. TAB bots are still an improvement because they can do things that basejka bots can't do, even with decent routing and bot AI files. They can complete objectives, use classes and do katas. ;)

 

Their ability to recieve orders, use vehicles and use voice chat are obviously still very preliminary, but it's a start!

 

But I think you're right, in FFA you're probably better off having tweaked basejka bots (re-routed, custom bot AI files). At least for now...

 

Come to think of it, OJP Basic does have the ability to use multiple bot types on the same server (ie: you can use basejka bots). I don't know the exact command though...

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The mod was last updated in October IIRC. Were you there since then?

I believe so.

 

Though I would personally like to have it switch based on balance (and NOT on score) and on human/bots. Switching based on one team being ahead is a bit annoying for me (but some people think it's "more sporting" oh well).

 

For me I don't care if one team is owning, so long as the teams have an equal number of human players (as much as possible anyway).

Agreed.

 

Another thing that I really dislike on Meatgrinder is the g_debugmelee 1 setting. With that setting, you can't do wall-jumps properly. And I use those a lot.

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Whoa, a lot happened in the last hour! Looks like MxBxZ got banned, and I didn't have to start a flame war for callling me a n00b. Three cheers for the Jedi Way!

 

I don't like g_debugmelee either. It does kinda mess up some anims, and it got me killed once. I was trying to grab the walls to get down without killing myself, and it wouldn't grab right. I got thrown down and lost the 4 HP I had left. (I was trying a daring escape after a Heavy Stancer got a good hit on me.) I turned of debugmelee, and poof! Good escape back. :)

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Yeah, g_debugmelee 1 adds kicks (and possibly grapples - I can't remember) to the Melee weapon. But it also changes the 'Force Wall Jump' to a Spiderman-like wall grip - so you can stick there for as long as you wish, but then you cannot Force Jump from that position (only fall down). Honestly, how often can you hide on a wall, completely vulnerable, without somebody seeing you and killing you? Also, it takes away the advantage of the kick from the Saber Staff. I really hate that setting.

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I got QTracker! It seems pretty good, so thanks Kurgan. Though I did have to fix the included JA filters and copy/modify the JO ones to allow me to view the 'hidden' game types.

 

Edit: Hmm, I can't find Meatgrinder with it. >_> And the 'filter folders' don't seem to pick up any servers, yet the filters work when I enable/disable them via the Servers>Filters>Game... menu.

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Yes, Debugmelee adds kicks, grapples and lets Jedi hang on a wall forever if they wish.

 

You guys complaining about g_debugmelee don't have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun). Honestly it does NOT "screw up" wall jumps, that's your imagination. You just have to let go immediately rather than holding the button down, if you want to do them like you did before. Does it throw your timing off? Oh boo hoo, all you have to do is let go of the button. ;)

 

You still launch yourself off (if you have enough mana left). So I don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

 

And don't whine that it "takes away the advantage of the kick from staff."

 

Let's face it, the only other folks who will have kick besides you staff users are people with MELEE (ie: no saber). Are they really a serious threat to you because they can also kick? Gimme a break!

 

This is just low level nitpicking. If I didn't know better I'd think you were just looking for excuses not to show up at our server. ;)

 

Clearly there's no pleasing you. You want debugmelee gone, you want the team balancer gone, you want only one game type. Gee, how boring! The way I see it there's plenty of other servers that can cater to your needs if you don't like our's. I'm not offended by criticism, I just don't see the logic in these, no offense!

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So... all QTracker does is locate games? doesn't the Join Game menu do that?

 

I'm sure you can come up with a good answer if you think for abit about it.

 

From the Qtracker website:

 

Qtracker

 

Game server browser that will help you play games on the Internet or at the local LAN party. Supports nearly all the most popular FPS games, such as: America's Army, Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, F.E.A.R., Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Quake 3 and 4, and Unreal Tournament 2004. Over 90 games are supported!

 

Primary features:

 

- Find your friends and/or clanmates using PlayerWatch.

- Color-coded player "fun names" using the in-game fonts.

- Mapshots show a small image of the level being played.

- Server list generation in HTML or PHP, including URL-based server launching.

- FAST querying.

- Skinnable PlayerWatch window, and customizable menus and toolbars.

- Server-side filters.

 

And tons more.

 

Yes, QT does far more than just locate games. Check the website and/or documentation for details. It's a very useful program. The Q3 built in server browser is pretty limited, after all... once you step outside it, you'll see a whole world of flexibility open up for you.

 

Anyway, you have nothing to lose by trying it, and you don't have to if you don't want to. ;)

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You can always put the IP in manually. Sometimes we don't show up on the main server list. I don't know why...

I tried that. It didn't work.

 

You guys complaining about g_debugmelee don't have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun). Honestly it does NOT "screw up" wall jumps, that's your imagination. You just have to let go immediately rather than holding the button down, if you want to do them like you did before. Does it throw your timing off? Oh boo hoo, all you have to do is let go of the button. ;)

Oh? I've tried this several times. How exactly do you pull of the Force Jump from it? With g_debugmelee 1, you have to release the jump button to come off the wall. Releasing the jump button at any time completely ends the jump, meaning you cannot Force Jump yourself through the air. You simply fall.

 

You want debugmelee gone, you want the team balancer gone

I don't want the balancer gone. I just want it to work well if it's going to be used. It clearly has many bugs that need to be ironed out.

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I tried that. It didn't work.

 

It has to, unless you've blocked us with your firewall. There's something wrong on your end if it doesn't, and I don't know what, I'm afraid.

 

Oh? I've tried this several times. How exactly do you pull of the Force Jump from it?

 

Show me a video of it. It seems to work for me, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. I don't recall "falling" off of any walls.

 

I don't want the balancer gone. I just want it to work well if it's going to be used. It clearly has many bugs that need to be ironed out.

 

So do we. This server is for testing the beta mod, after all. ;)

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