To Jedi, or not to Jedi.... that is the Question

[ilwugoalie]

Alright, here it is.... RobQel-Droma and myself got into a debate over weather or not you are or are not a Jedi at the start of TSL. My opinion os no.

 

I say this cause of the fact that he was cut of from the force. and knowing the force is there around you does not make you a jedi. nor does being able to use the force untrained. further, where the Exile is concerned, he is learning how to use the force again. to me that makes him a Padawan, and to a certain extent Traya's Padawan.

 

My base for this statement is from reading the novels... The Jedi Academy trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson hos some very good references for this. but anyway, Rob will no doubt have his thoughts up here soon enough and you'll be able to see both our sides of this debate.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Let's see, if it isn't that obivious:

 

1. You are exiled from the Order

2. You can't use Magic [The Force, whatever] (yet)

3. You don't have a lightsabre

4. You don't have Jedi Robes

 

Conclussion: No.

[RobQel-Droma]

And here I am .

 

I say yes, he can still feel the force, which makes him force-sensitive. And besides that, he knows that he has the force and that he can use it. Even though he lost all of his force powers, he still has his connection to the force, and starts regaining those force powers immediately after his conversation with Kreia. Being her padawan doesn't really mean anything as far as gameplay, for most of the game you are actually stronger than her.

 

I am not saying that The Exile was a Jedi in the sense of the regular fully-trained Jedi Knight (like the Jedi you see in the movies) blah blah blah.... But he still is a light-oriented force-user, so he is a "Jedi" for lack of a better term.

 

EDIT: Vlad, you don't have to have a saber and robes to be a Jedi. Even when you start leveling up with powers you still don't have them, remember ?

[Vladimir-Vlada]

And besides that, he knows that he has the force and that he can use it.

Non-Jedi (Force Sensitives) CAN use it. But Jedi USE it. Those are two very different things.

[RobQel-Droma]

^So? He can use the force, and he ends up using the force, does he not?

[Vladimir-Vlada]

^So? He can use the force, and he ends up using the force, does he not?

Ahhh... But he ENDS up using Magic. But in the beginning, he cannot.

[The Doctor]

Technically, the Exile was not a Jedi. He may have been able to feel the Force during his exile, but he was no longer a member of the Jedi Order.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

I thought you had to be trained by a master and accepted by the Jedi counsel to be a jedi, and that after many years of training.

 

Just because you're force sensitive doesn't mean you know enough or can control it enough to be effective as a Jedi. Jedi must be trained rigorously to maintain their faith and resist the darkside.

 

 

"There's nothing here for me now. I want to go with you to Alderan. I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father."

 

 

"The force is with you young skywalker, but you're not a Jedi yet."

[JediMaster12]

The Exile really wasn't a Jedi. He/She was expelled from the Jedi Order therefore it doesn't carry the title Jedi. Really it it a technicality. In my lowly opinion, the title Jedi doesn't mean anything, it is how you use your powers in the gameplay that matters and determines who you are. I believe in the credo that we are defined by our actions, even more so by how we treat those we consider inferior rather than our equals.

[RobQel-Droma]

Originally, the argument was whether there was a difference between the two games, and whether you were some regular guy in both of them. I am not saying that you are technically a "Jedi", I am saying that you are a force-user and are force-sensitive in TSL, and you weren't in KotOR. I didn't mean that you were a Jedi as all of you are thinking of the word "Jedi."

[JediMaster12]

I don't see a difference. Both lost their powers in the beginning but they regain them through the gameplay. The Exile just gets his sooner than Revan.

[ilwugoalie]

I am not saying that you are technically a "Jedi", I am saying that you are a force-user and are force-sensitive in TSL, and you weren't in KotOR. I didn't mean that you were a Jedi as all of you are thinking of the word "Jedi."

 

then in your opinion, in the context that you are using the word "Jedi", everyone who can sense the force is a jedi..... when bastila told you in KOTOR, that she felt the force in you... from what you have said, you are a Jedi. I dont accept this thoery... There is no "technically a Jedi". either you are or you are not, if you are Exiled, and stripped of the force, you are no longer a Jedi in any sense of the word, and because you can sense it once more does not make you a Jedi again.

[RobQel-Droma]

Not everyone who senses the force is a Jedi, I never said that. I was saying that while you may not be a Jedi, you are still not a "average citizen/soldier" like you where (or thought you were) in KotOR. You are force-sensitive, and can feel the force in TSL. That is what I meant, maybe I phrased that wrong.

[JediMaster12]

All's forgiven

[Kain]

He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.

[ilwugoalie]

He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.

 

A very good point... I second this opinion

[JediMaster12]

He is not a Jedi. Its been said several times that the word Jedi is simply a title. Thus, as he is not part of the Jedi Order, he does not bare the title of Jedi. He's simply a Force User. Not as restrained as a Jedi because he is not bound by their rules and regulations.

 

I mentioned that as well but I disregarded it as a technicality.

 

"Trained as a Jedi you request for him."

[RC-1162]

i say yes, he can be called a Jedi.

 

basically, youre looking at the character DURING the time he/she gets his/her powers back. it was popular knowledge that the Exile and Revan were Jedi and lost their powers due to amnesia(revan) or not using them at all(exile)

since Revan becomes sith lord/gets a medal for killing Malak, it proves that he is trained and can kill a Sith Master like Malak.

similarly, in TSL, (though i never played it) the exile goes against Sion and Traya, two sith lords, and defeats them. what you should focus on is what the person achieved at the END of the story, if the character is still a wimpy old scout or something then obviously he/she is and insult to the game.

in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.

[JediMaster12]

basically, youre looking at the character DURING the time he/she gets his/her powers back. it was popular knowledge that the Exile and Revan were Jedi and lost their powers due to amnesia(revan) or not using them at all(exile)

since Revan becomes sith lord/gets a medal for killing Malak, it proves that he is trained and can kill a Sith Master like Malak.

 

Revan was always the more powerful. Even Kreia said Revan was power.

 

similarly, in TSL, (though i never played it) the exile goes against Sion and Traya, two sith lords, and defeats them. what you should focus on is what the person achieved at the END of the story, if the character is still a wimpy old scout or something then obviously he/she is and insult to the game.

in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.

 

Got a point there. However we are talking about how the PC starts off. They started off as individuals without powers but that doesn't mean that they weren't in tuned to the Force. True they do become Jedi and if you deal the points right, some butt kicking Jedi.

 

"The Force is in all of us thought for some it is barely but a measurable whisper."-Bastilla

 

"You could survive merely because you see things they can't."-Kreia to Atton

[ilwugoalie]

in short: if the character's skills are back to what it was before or better, then he/ she can be called a jedi.

 

We're not talking about what they are in the end of the game. Sorry, but the Exile was sent packing from the Jedi order.... pretty much saying, your no longer a Jedi. Just becasue he/She regains the use of the force and conquors over all at then end of the game by no means says they were a Jedi at the start.

[JediMaster12]

Got a point there.

[Ztalker]

Why does Luke call Kyle katarn a jedi?

he practically grabbed his saber, and went to kill Dessan.

 

I think someone can be qulified 'Jedi' if he uses the Force to protect all living beiings in the universe.

 

Someone can be qualified Dark Jedi or Sith if he uses the Force for his own good, to profit from it's power.

 

I think that's it.

[JediMaster12]

Simple and right to the point. Like I said it is defined by choice.

[Char Ell]

I don't see how the Exile could be considered a Jedi at the beginning of TSL. The Exile had been expelled from the Jedi Order, not to mention the fact that the Exile had lost connectivity to the Force. IMO, force sensitive does not equate to being a Jedi. What I think the argument boils down to though is how one defines what a Jedi is. If one defines a Jedi as a force sensitive who helps others, rights wrongs, and supports the cause of peace then one could say the Exile is a Jedi at the beginning of the game (if playing Exile as LS character). However, I define a Jedi as one who has been accepted into the Jedi Order and generally follows the Jedi Code. By that definition then the Exile would not be a Jedi since the Jedi Council had expelled the Exile from the order.

[ilwugoalie]

IMO, force sensitive does not equate to being a Jedi. When I think the argument boils down to though is how one defines what a Jedi is. If one defines a Jedi as a force sensitive who helps others, rights wrongs, and supports the cause of peace then one could say the Exile is a Jedi at the beginning of the game (if playing Exile as LS character). However, I define a Jedi as one who has been accepted into the Jedi Order and generally follows the Jedi Code. By that definition then the Exile would not be a Jedi since the Jedi Council had expelled the Exile from the order.

 

Exactly