Cantina 14 Discussion Thread

[BattleDog]

Well, okay, but this is the first time the Council has met since the end of the the war and Flax wanted to get moving on this quickly. As to his qualifications, I don't think any of the others are recently retired Generals.

[Redwing]

1. Ditto what Admiral said about changing the dynamics of the Cantina.

 

2. Actually I think that was a short-lived rule Deac made during Cantina 3. Rereading that, it looks like he'd violated the rule himself by the second page.

 

3. Ditto what Admiral said.

 

4. Here's the plotlines I can see: the Sith (Agric versus Cracken) Sleeping Jedi, the Sleepers, (the Blades-Aesir-Shadows subplot, the research base subplot, the Irvines-Elf Woman subplot, the Kioet-Aren subplot), and the literally sidelined Assassins plot (since no one is moving it forward at the moment, unlike all the others), plus a few new subplots like Antilles'.

 

That's three currently running major plots, two of which are primarily yours. (Assuming that the Crouching Sith and Hidden Jedi plots aren't directly connected. ) The Sleeper plot is taking place in four locations at once, but the Jedi plot hasn't exactly popped up to distract anyone yet.

 

5. Remember Deac's character hasn't necessarily been on the bright side of the Council. I mean, he hasn't even been trained as a Jedi, he has suicidal tendencies, and he's constantly been manipulated by supernatural forces both benevolent and malevolent in the past, and he has the tendency to follow his own agenda rather than that of his superiors, although this is all easy to forget considering Deac is one of the nicest guys in the RPG. But Deac himself points out that the Council and he haven't always been on the best of terms.

 

You misunderstood me, however. My point was that the Council can send Deac on a mission at the same time that NRI sends him on a mission. In a realistic world there is no reason why this can't happen with a little poor communication.

 

6. Maybe you get that impression from reading what you see in the RPGs, but you can't imagine how far off you are. (Although you have tended to guess that I make up everything as I go, which isn't so - the current plotline with the Blades and the Aesir has been planned to its end since, if I recall correctly, Cantina 9. XD)

 

7. See what Admiral and I already said about an interesting fit rather than necessarily a literal one.

 

----------

 

"Those Jedi have waited thousands of years, they can wait a few more days," I can imagine someone saying.

 

The research base is important from the NR's point of view in that if Cracken got there first it could be potentially devastating. The Council might have a different point of view... or they might not, maybe they wouldn't mind the time to form some kind of contingency plan.

 

Also, recently retired Generals? I don't think the Council would necessarily agree with Flax' every move considering his past actions and sometimes conflicting motivations...

[BattleDog]

1. If you can't see how 1,000 Jedi and 3,000 Sith are going to shake things up you must be typing with a blindfold on. In which case your spelling is impressive.

 

2. Meh, not a big point.

 

3. Well, I guess the whole thing with Scar screwing me over with his assassin has left me suspicous but that's Scar, not you. Point retracted.

 

4. I'm not saying anything more about my plotlines, did you get the pm? You've squeezed most of it out of me anyway.

 

5. I'm aware of Deac's character. Question: How do Deac and Flax compare in the eyes of the Jedi. Oh, and yes, Deac is a really nice guy, so are you Red.

 

6. Relative, if it was up to me you wouldn't know anything until you read it in the thread.

 

7. Yes, I know, I get it.

 

8. The Jedi concentrate on Jedi stuff. They let others worry about abandoned bases and super weapons. Remember, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

[Admiral Odin]

1a. Never mentioned 3000 sith before.

 

1b. I fail to see how this has the slightest chance of shaking up the galaxy. Reasons:

 

3000 is a very small number.

 

We have 3000 sith vs. 1000+ Jedi. However is 3000 sith are such a "ground shaking" event then the Aesir would most certainly become involved. Which would then mean the 2000 advantage the Sith have disappear in the blink of an eye.

 

1c. I really hope this is not it to the plot line. A small army of Sith suddenly appear and then a small army of Jedi appear. A little too convient, and a little disappointing when there are so many possibilities.

 

8: Since when? Jedi always interfer in non Jedi issues. And the Jedi may think that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the force, but that is probably all.

 

Most non-force users would probably say the exact reverse...

[Redwing]

1. That doesn't change how the Cantina works, just introduces a new factor, along the lines of Cracken's introduction, the Sleepers, the twin apocalypses, the Shadows' assassins plot, the Vampire attack on Coruscant, the various Imperial/Republic skirmishes (sometimes within their own factions), etc... Plus, just introducing 1000 Jedi and 3000 Sith doesn't guarantee shake-up, no more than introducing a son of Palpatine didn't guarantee shake-up; the shake-up happened when he united the Imperial remnant, pulled a blitkrieg campaign that divided the galaxy, and pulled the Aesir out of hiding by killing Odin, besides inadverdantly setting off a whole new timeline.

 

2. Doing the Cantinaverse wiki thread summaries, I realize we have alot of rules we ditched - no Force powers for example.

 

4. Yes, got the PM.

 

5. I was referring to the character Deac being a really nice guy. All us actual RPGers are horrible awful people for the things we do to our characters, I think.

 

6. Ditto, except for the parts where other people have to come into play.

 

8. The Jedi aren't sending Deac to the abandoned base, and it also seems to me that Jedi interfere in non-Jedi matters constantly...

[BattleDog]

1a. Check the last disscussion thread. No its not the total plot line.

 

1. No it doesn't neccessarily, but it should. Why? It changes the make-up of the orders drastically.

 

Example: The Jedi are currently hugely undermanned and reliant on the Republic to do anything beyond the two or three man level, really. Increasing manpower increases autonomy in their case. With the Sith, well the possibilities are endless.

 

2. Told you so, if you remember Flax started out specifically as a non-Jedi.

 

4. Good.

 

5. I'm a nice guy, I'm so nice women only ever want to be friends with me.

 

6. You don't always trust other to do the same though, in fairness I can see that in the past I have been a little erratic. That has to do with a developing character and my own growing up. Hell I may only have been 15 when we started.

 

8. Sorry, I meant the Jedi give primacy to Jedi matters. Notice how usually when they get involved in something else their explanation starts, "There is a great..."

[Writer]

5. I know the feeling, BD... I know the feeling

[BattleDog]

*Buys WJ a very cold beer.*

[Rogue15]

hey red, check your pm box.

 

*goes to sleep*

[Flamehart]

Hey, I was referred by WildJedi and Admiral to jump in on this cantina thread due to the involvement of her character, Riebe, being I'm a fellow Sith Hunter.

 

------------------------

Name: Strider Flamehart

Gender: Male

Species: Human, But believed to be partially demonic or supernatural due to some abilities.

Origin: Kyron (Original planet, not canon with SW)

Faction: Mercenary

Description: Human with long, messy black hair, blue eyes. Wears a blood red cape/cloak, black shirt, black jeans, boots, and black fingerless cutoff gloves. Carries dual pistols using traditional projectile bullets, rather than blaster bolts, a traditional katana, the blade instilled with cortosis, and a dark-blue bladed lightsaber.

Public Knowledge: None know much about him, other than the fact he's quite an efficient Mercenary, and is known by a very small handful to be one of the few remaining Sith Hunters.

Current Status/Location: Last known sighting was on Coruscant

How to Contact: Through the communciation system of his ship, the Ragnarok, or his temporary office on Coruscant

 

 

Bio:

Strider Flamehart was a Jedi of the Old Republic. He set many a record in blindfold tests, excelling impressively at combat without the need of his sight. While he was in the Order, it was during a mission where he was accidently infused with additional powers, including one that made him immune to aging. Due to reasons not disclosed, he was exiled from the Jedi Order and he turned to the Sith. After many disagreements with the Sith ways, he defeated every Sith in the temple he trained under systematically, then left the Sith. He spent many years wandering, before becoming a Sith Hunter. Shortly after they parted ways and many fell, Strider went into a mercenary lifestyle, trying to hide from his past so as not to attract those who loathed the Sith Hunters.

[Admiral Odin]

The below is made to in reference to my post in Cantina 14 where the Heloki escaped BD's containment in a single post. Post #463

 

First, how exactly is anything in that post Godmodding? I didn't take control of any of your characters or your fleet. Nor did I specifiy the composition of the Republic's fleet, or any damage it sustained from the attempted rammings of the smaller ships. The only thing I did was have the Helkan ships possibly escape.

 

Now lets talk a little more about godmoding, specifically all of the godmodding you have done with the Heloki. 1. You placed them on C-34-T-78 2. You had them easily contained. All of which you never once asked me about, you didn't ask if I wanted them on that planet, or how difficult it would be to keep them contained, what kind of fleet may be needed etc. Then as your post indicated you were going to easily destroy them with planetary bombardment. All of that is godmodding BD, and not once did you ask me if I minded or what my plans for them were. Now you complain because they escaped?

---------------------------------

 

I'm slightly confused, to which capabilites are you referring to? That the Heloki have ships? I thought that would have been understood, otherwise how else would they travel to different planets. The fact that their ships are very fast, and well protected? Have you forgotten that the Heloki broke free of the Aesir's containment? Given how technologically advanced the Aesir are the Heloki would not be able to do that in some little dinky ship. Did I come right out and give all the details about these Helkan ships? No, but I feel there was enough information given to know that the Heloki were not traveling around in bulk frieghters and for you to understand their ships would need to be rather advanced/special in someway. If anything the above post would indicate that Idona was telling Drago the truth about what happened...

 

I didn't inform you? How many times will the Aesir have to give your character disks containing all the information necessary to defeat the Heloki on them before they will actually examine what is on that disk? I know your characters and the Republic haven't looked at the disks because you never asked me what is on them, or have your characters RP inserting the disks and seeing what is on them. To say otherwise when you never asked would be godmodding the Aesir and dictating what information they gave Flax and then Drago.

 

I will say, normally when the Aesir have given messages to others I tend to put that right in the RPG. I do that in order to save time, the messages also tend to be short and don't contain a lot if any real information, and since they are simple messages I really don't feel to bad about essentially forcing another's character to read it. The disks are different, they contain a lot of info. on the Heloki and I didn't want to force your characters to have to make use of that info, that would be godmoding. Instead I left it up to you, and you chose to have them ignore that info. I never informed you? No, you just never bothered to look at the information given. All you had to do was either pm me with a "Hey Admiral whats on the disks", or role play it out. I am game for either *Role playing would be more entertaining IMO.

 

This brings me to Drago and what he said a while ago. He demands the Aesir give him more information. Yet it is clear he hasn't examined the first disk since, 1. He made no reference to that material. 2. His statements concerning the uproar in the Senate would probably be different if the Senate examined/or even knew about that information. You wonder why Idona said no, and basically was rude to Drago's request for more information when he and the republic had yet to make use of the information already given?

 

Lets not forget, that Flax had asked the Aesir to train people to hunt the Heloki. Drago never asked Idona for that, nor did the Republic ask the Aesir to send people over to planet ________ so the Aesir could train some of the Republic soldiers. The Aesir were/are not going to force the Republic to send men to recieve train, that is again at the Republic's discretion.

 

So, the events in my last post basically bear out what Drago has said even though he and the Republic at large have made no use of what the Aesir have already given them? Nor have they followed up on Flax's original request for training...

 

I'm also curious BD, especially given what I have said (IE, your characters and the Republic at large ignoring what aid the Aesir have already provided) what those reprecussions would be? Again, in my opinion that posts backs up Idona's statment that the Heloki broke out of the Aesir's containment (which should be much harder then breaking out of the republic's).

-----------------------------------

 

Now I will spend a little time about the escape itself. I had a couple of options.

 

1. Helkan ships being very fast, able to leave a system shortly after reaching orbit, and being well armored.

 

2. Opening up a portal of somekind and have them leave secretly. Said portal could be skirting Helheim etc.

 

First option: The Heloki escape, the Republic is aware of it. Maybe then they will consult the information the Aesir provided the Republic. Maybe return to Gladsheim station then and ask the Aesir to clarify a few things if necessary or help in training soldiers in how to handle the Heloki. At the very least you know/Republic knows the Heloki are again at large.

 

Second Option: The Heloki slip off planet and head to who knows where. This option is ultimatly more entertaining for me since I can have fun creating havoc. Although the immediate outcome: Republic doesn't realize they didn't kill the Heloki. And probably you really get upset that they escaped this way. Your characters continue to ignore

 

Now, I'm willing to have my post merely be the distraction the white Heloki mentioned and have them escape via the second option. However, they will escape. The fact they did it in one post simply saves time, the Heloki were not going to engage in space combat, their ships could take a hit or two and then they would be gone. Your forces were unprepared for what the Heloki were going to do. I know this because of what I have said above and I'll repeat. You never asked me what it would take to keep them contained, your characters never consulted the information provided and they didn't seek the training that would have been helpful.

 

Also please keep in mind I never specified the damage/if any done to the Republic's fleet or even the composition of that fleet. Since if I did that it would have been godmodding since that fleet is yours.

 

So BD, you can be upset that the Heloki escaped and threaten me/ via these repercussions against the Aesir. Or you can have Drago look at the information given to him, and possible go back to the Aesir to have them clarify anything and even ask them for trainers, so the next time the Republic encounters the Heloki, things can play out differently.

 

You may also want to ask me next time/if there is a next time what the Republic should do to contain the Heloki...

[Kuuki]

Quoth the Raven: "Oh, Snap son!"

[BattleDog]

No, I didn't ask you what was on the disk, mainly because this plot had been on the backboiler, as has the whole thread recently.

 

So I'm culpable there, howver, let me quote your characters from the last thread.

 

"Since in the past couple of weeks or so they just attacked and took a colony of 10,000 there is time for you to prepare. They won't be looking for new prey for some time and then it won't be major population centers."

 

So I picked a planet in an unspecified location and placed a fleet of unspecified size and composition around it. You said that they had all the information they needed so I assumed that unspecified tactics would be used to contain them.

 

As a matter of fact I wasn't going to bombard the planet, in my next post the Admiral was going to tell Drago that the Senate had vetoed that decision and he was going to have to go planet side, cue Alien/Starship Trooper type gory discoveries and marines being picked off one by one. Never mind, as you pointed out I didn't comunicate that to you.

 

As to the Aesir sending anyone to help, Odin make it quite clear in the last thread that the Heloki were entirely the Republic's problem and he batted aside the request for trainers.

 

While we're here in the discussion thread there's something else I'd like to deal with.

 

Don't put any Valkiries in an Agamair households. Due to the clan and tribal structure of the society its very difficult to invent a background for yourself, unless you murder someone and take their place in their family.

 

So any agent in the service of a high ranking noble would be guilty of murder, impersonation and false oath-swearing. The punishement for which is truely horrific.

 

Not that I expect you have anyone spying on Flax but just incase you were ever planning on using it as a way to contact him.

[Admiral Odin]

The problem BD is you made too many assumptions.

 

For instances that quote, doesn't mean that the Heloki were planet side, especially on the planet that they attacked *which btw they left, if you remember the Aesir went to that planet searching for the Heloki already.

 

That quote really meant that the Heloki were basically wandering in space, planning their next move, not that they were on a planet. I never said anything then because in the big picture there is really no difference between being in deep space or on a planet from which they can escape.

 

Bombardment wise, yay telling me that would have been nice...

 

Odin did bat the request for training aside, he didn't say no though. He wasn't going to say yes until after your characters examined that disk. Remember the Aesir love to test the galaxy.

 

Odin didn't agree to trainers not because he wasn't going to provide any but because Flax didn't have time to look over the material given. If after looking over the material, Flax/The republic felt that they needed trainers then they would have been provided. He didn't want the Republic to immediatly come to the Aesir when faced with a unknown problem. Instead he wanted them to be informed and come only if they still felt they needed it.

 

[hint]The disks basically say that at the end. something along the lines of: If after due consideration of the problem facing you, you feel you will need further help in handling The Heloki select a planet with X number of men. Valkyries will then train them. While your men attend this school, they will be under the Valkyrie's command and will obey them like any other superior officer.[/hint]

[BattleDog]

Lack of communication, if we were doing this sat around a table with pen and paper or something I'm sure one of us would have said something by now.

 

Never mind, its done now.

 

(Check pm's)

[Kuuki]

with regard to my last post inthread, that I take it that as a sleeper Irvine can sense kioet's powers, but due to kioet not having a force presence, he cant locate him directly (ie location nor direction, just inproximate)

and with that kioet cant sense irvine becuase kioet does not have the force nor any thing natural that can 'sense' someone elses presence through a bunch of bulkheads, so koiet shouldnt be able to use his abilities as a sleeper to sense irvine

 

 

am i correct on this, red

 

 

 

p.s. aug 25 til ?? true honest no idea how much i can post. Im out of the barracks room that i am in some time before that

[Redwing]

(For some reason I cannot view the second page of this thread until I click Reply.)

 

Both of those are incorrect, Scar.

 

1. Kioet does indeed have a presence in the Force, as does every single living thing in the universe that is connected to the Force. However he is not Force-sensitive.

 

2. Kioet can sense Irvine's presence because of the Sleeper powers both have. Kioet may or may not understand this as he's never had the power to 'sense' anything before. He's not so much using his Sleeper powers to do it as his Sleeper powers should be doing it without him knowing what they're doing. Just like you see things across a room with your eyes without having to activate some special power. At least, that's my theory.

 

Also, duly noted

 

ADDENDUM: I do not think Irvine knows what a "Sleeper" is or that he is one. Neither does Kioet for that matter. Although I COULD be wrong about Irvine, don't have time to check on that now. (Cracken may have told him, but I don't think anyone told Cracken what F. Irvine was, and F. Irvine certainly didn't know.)

[Kuuki]

(heck i couldnt tell if i posted that post or not )

 

addendum () f. irvine could have known or at least put 2 & 2 together when he fought cracken for the fact the f. irvine got stronger as he progressed.

[Rogue15]

Hey, is this the same Irvine that Kioet witnessed do that merge thing? (a few cantinas back when he first entered)

[Redwing]

Scar: Yeah, but if Irvine has never heard of something called a Sleeper then he wouldn't magically think of the word when he realizes he is similar to Cracken.

 

R15: Yes, yes it is. I believe Kioet still has the holorecording, too.

[Kuuki]

r15/red: No its not, remember that was cracern from cantinaverse and cracern from pth-verse (whom was older) that fused.

[Redwing]

Actually, it is. Technically whatever is left of F. Irvine is in Irvine now. He is the new Fused Irvine. Same powers. And they look basically identical. Remember Kioet saw both Irvines AND the after-result (all at different ages). Only difference now? Hair color. I don't mind telling you that my hair color changes every month or two. Plus Kioet is a Trandoshan. He likely isn't using hair as a physical identifier anyway. It's just so much more clothing accessories.

 

By the way, they're still all named the same name, since besides the fact that "Cracern" was never been used in PtH by anyone except Irvine Cracern himself, he no longer has the memories of choosing that name.

 

'Tis what you get for using the same character so many times.

[Rogue15]

holy 17k redwing!!

[Kuuki]

I know!! *bashes head into table*

[Redwing]

((Hold on a second. Two things: The Vanguard suit doesn't work like ordinary SW technology, since it ISN'T, except for the nonmagic weapons and teleporter [the teleporter is Imp tech]. Second, why does tech not work in the shadow realm... and why can Irvine suddenly transport entire beings/areas there? because it's convenient for Irvine? At the very least you need to explain why tech doesn't work. Preferably in the discussion thread. And in case you don't remember how the Vanguard suit works, though I've done so in multiple places in the RPGs, I'll explain that in there too.

 

BD: I assume all these characters have been briefed on the Heloki.))

 

Defiance II, Wardroom

 

Han Namrod: Sir, isn't it true that these cats can shear right through any gear we carry?