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where are the lightsaber duels?


kobem
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Where are the lightsabers duels? They're in other games (Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Episode III game). A lot of games have done melee combat better than this one.

 

Honestly you'd have to do a lot of programming to make the lightsaber combat in this game "a duel." Right now it's just arcade hack 'n' slash with no real skill involved (beyond button mashing).

 

The game isn't really intended for dueling... it's based on team based modes. Hero Assault (Celebrity Deathmatch) was tossed in as a bonus "Fun" mode. It's the only non-goal oriented game mode, and honestly, to me, not that fun (I only use it to practice a certain Hero or just mess around).

 

Modders could create a duel mode, but I for one won't be in line to play it, unless like I said, they somehow do a lot of programming to make it actually fun and somewhat skill-based.

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proper lightsabre duels in battlefront 2 would pwn. Having a duel with a sith lord in the middle of a large scale battle would be cool. The other guys are right... you have to play jedi outcast/ academy for excellent jedi duels... it's shame the other parts of the games (graphics/cutscenes/guns/puzzles/storyline) are really ****

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proper lightsabre duels in battlefront 2 would pwn. Having a duel with a sith lord in the middle of a large scale battle would be cool. The other guys are right... you have to play jedi outcast/ academy for excellent jedi duels... it's shame the other parts of the games (graphics/cutscenes/guns/puzzles/storyline) are really ****

 

Yeah, they would rock, but like said earlier, It's Battlefront, not JA.

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Well, sure you can mod BF2 and "try" to play duels.... BUT!:

 

Hit detection in BF2 is not as accurate as JK/JA series, so detail saber actions would be hard.

 

A Hero Assault game in a dueling field with players only and guys going 1 on 1 one pair at a time may be an idea though.

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Here's my theory: truly well done lightsabre duels will never be possible in PC games. I've played all the iterations of the Jedi Knight/Dark Forces games and they never ever satisfy me. They always feel like basic button mashing.

 

Even if we were playing Teras Kasi or whatever, the lightsabre fighting would still be rather unsatisfying. Why? Because PC input cannot handle good melee combat generally. Melee combat, unlick the "point and click" aspect of firearms, is INCREDIBLY nuanced. A computer just can't represent that without actually giving you a lightsabre controller and having you swing that around to move the blade (which would be incredibly cool, actually). But short of that, I personally don't think you'll ever see a melee combat game that does real justice to melee fighting.

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"SOULCALIBUR!!!"

 

...

 

"THREE!"

 

Okay, so it's unrealistic, but I'm a real fan the series. But I think it'd overcomplicate BF2 to do realistic duelling. I mean, you'd have to dedicate too much effort on the Jedi, which would kind of destroy the whole point of the game. But as Kurgan says, if modders want to try...

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Woah, theres a soul calibur THREE? Sweet, I really need to start paying more attention to those annoying advertisements.

 

Anyway, I would love a cool realistic saber system thingy- It'd be nice. But for me the game ain't all about jedi fights, so I'm not really foaming at the mouth with fury or anything. I just gotta say "Cliched phrase for indifference starting with 'M' ending with 'eh'"

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Frankly, I'm tired of all the focus of Star Wars being on Jedi. I'd like to see some FPS and space combat games like the original Dark Forces -- without all the fancy schmancy force powers and such -- that focus on grunts. I've heard Republic Commando tried to do this, but again, because of the cross-platform development crap, they dumbed it down for consoles.

 

And Soul Calibre games aren't even as detailed as you could get in melee combat terms. They're just a set of pre-programmed moves like what you have in Jedi Academy and such. And the sabre combat in the JK/JA games basically sucked.

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Yeah Solo, the moves are pre-programmed, but it's difficult to do "realistic" movement and duelling, you have to understand. Although I recall Samuri Showdown on PS2 (I think that's the title) that conveyed the sensation of real sword fencing. Heck, fail to block and you could do a one-hit kill!

 

---------------

Woah, there's British people on the Internet besides me? :p

Republic Commando owns despite the flaws, but I do like the imagination and style. No more quadruple jumping over buildings, just punching Super Battle Droids to death (and failing!)

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I'm british.....

 

ah well.

 

anyway, in the cut scene in historical campaign on utapau, it shows obi-wan, blocking all of grevious's atacks. i tried this. he just cut straight through me. 5 times. dawn it. maybe the idea of the lightsaber controller could be worked on by someone with too much spare time.... anyone? or some major corporation. maybe ask them or send 'em a letter? maybe i should not take this so seriously?...

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Ain't you seen the Nintendo Revolution controller? I can't for the love of "something" understand why people shun it. It literally is a BLOODY LIGHTSABRE CONTROLLER!

 

I think Nintendo and Lucasarts need to get talking, I have 'forseen' some brilliant ideas.

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Redtech, that's kind of my point. You can't get good sword combat in a game. The closest you get is fighting games like Soul Caliber or Bushido Blade, which still just devolve into button mashing, basically. That's my real problem with these games. They don't actually have anything to do with sword fighting or the nuances that come into play.

 

And british lad, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. The JK/JA sabre combat was utter crap. It was unbalanced, the moves were ridiculously animated (Seriously, the red stance swings make it look like you're weilding a sledgehammer, while the blue stance makes it look like you've got a whifflebat), and with all the force powers, it just devolved into rote gaming of who can execute the same combination first.

 

Hell, don't you remember the JK issues with the backstab? The most powerful move in the game was to TURN YOUR BACK TO YOUR ENEMY for a good long while. The whole fighting scheme also felt REALLY random to me and just basically like mashing buttons. Sure it looked cool, but it wasn't like you had serious control over your character.

 

 

Like I said, until Nintendo's lightsabre controller or whatever becomes the standard for how sword games are played (IE: where you swing it is where it goes), you won't find good sword fighting in games. It'll just be the same old arcadey, bash-em-with-your-glowstick action.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, if they managed to make a game where how you swing the controller is how the sword swings on the screen, that would be a seriously cool step in the right direction (it still wouldn't give you the feel of real sword fighting, though, since the blade wouldn't weigh anything, your foot positioning and balance wouldn't matter, your strength wouldn't be an issue in terms of blocking and speed, etc., but it'd be a start).

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yes. i agree. but you cant ask for everything at once people. 5 years ago solid snake was a couple of coloured squares on MGS1. 5 years ago, a game with good graphics was one that you could looka t for at least 10 mins before getting a migrane. think how much they've improved since then. anyone ever played rebel assault on PC? it hurts. literally. but look what we have now! i think its amazing how quick the technology has advanced. any one seen some of the cut scenes in prince of persia two thrones? almost real.

 

And, as solo said about how your strength etc wouldnt matter, thats kind of the point of computer games. A portal into VIRTUAL REALITY. Strenght etc isnt supposed to matter.

 

ah well. time to be off. i leave you now.

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Yeah, MGS subsidence rules far too much!

And strength doesn't really matter in Nintendo revolution, but heck, would most gamers cope with games where muscle strength matters? Heck, for Star Wars, they'd have to set the strength gauge for "5-year old weakling" for the above average fan!

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ON THE OTHER HAND, if they managed to make a game where how you swing the controller is how the sword swings on the screen, that would be a seriously cool step in the right direction (it still wouldn't give you the feel of real sword fighting, though, since the blade wouldn't weigh anything, your foot positioning and balance wouldn't matter, your strength wouldn't be an issue in terms of blocking and speed, etc., but it'd be a start).

 

Unfortunately, there are at least 2 other major problems/issues I can already see with that also - first off, it would be incredibly awkward to move your character around the screen (on foot) whilst also focusing on swinging your saber around simultaneously, never mind the issues when it comes to acrobatics, esp. star wars/jedi movement/abilities: like force jumping etc, and then of course, there is the other force powers - it would be incredibly disorientating/confusing/unnatural and would take away the "flow" of battle (sponataneous/reactionary/instincts) as everything would require too much forethought to what you want to do next.

Secondly, how would you detect contact for example? You would not stop when you made contact whilst weilding the controller in real life, so then the alignment of saber on screen and your controller would be out of sink, and would cause a mess with the physics engine. For example, if your opponent blocked your swing away from your body, you wouldn't swing your arm away would you? Neither if they just successfully blocked a hit far from their actual bodily prescence also - you personally wouldn't stop swinging your arm would you? (unavoidably anyway, as the momentum would carry you)

 

You wouldn't be able to "feel" the fight/contact, which is the paradox of virtual fighting - no physical contact.

 

Basically, I don't believe that type of control is possible until (if we ever do, or can) invent total immersion virtual reality.

 

oh well :fist:

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