The experience system & skills and abilities thread

[Maxstate]

It's definitely an idea. But I think that might be getting too complicated. I'm already getting questions about "Why is there only Force Seeing?".

 

Hahaha! no keyboard found, press f1 to continue.

 

(idea 1)

 

I'm hoping to solve the complexity issue by using the "alt" text or whatever you guys call it that appears at the bottom of the profile screen when you hover over a force power. We could add more useful data and descriptions to that and maybe even give it it's own window inside the profile screen like the saber hilt selection windows?

 

The information for 9/10ths of the things we have is already located in the main menu under a pseudo-encyclopedia, you can find it by clicking solo play and then "Rules".

 

(idea 2 to solve complexity)

 

Maybe even an easier idea is to make that function available from ingame so people can quickly read up on it? To make more sense we could modify what it says to suit OJP's functions more, which I would be happy to do if it's just a copy/paste job?

 

Fake edit;

 

Can you tell me if you can add information to that rulesset thing? Because we might've struck gold with it already, most of what it says is still more or less true to OJP

 

 

But we don't have to make it as complicated as that, you could also just add an extra set of force powers that have one bubble and cost 15 points a pop that give the Jedi some OJP features like auto-dodge or auto-push

[madcatmach2]

well after seeing that stuff last night Razorace i really like what your doing with the gunning with the whole range affecting how well your able to be blocked. O and you guys said i needed something so that i could see the miss hap increasing for the guns. lastly i agree with the whole disrupter bbeing un-blockabull just make it a really slow rate of fire to keep it from being spamed.

[razorace]

The mishap display will be fixed with the next beta.

[JRHockney*]

If anyone's interested in helping out with the UI, I could teach you how to do it. Quite simple really

 

But hocks, the classes are done through coding and not UI scripting. You'll need coding savvy uhh...coders to do it, not UI savvy coders

 

I actually meant ui coding. The ui code is a bit confusing sometimes

 

I like the idea of both remote controlled droids and NPC support.

Remote droids could work somehow like:

Level 1: Battle droid, 3 points. Single and weak droid with level 2 blaster, slight force resistance, 30 hp.

Level 2: Super battle droid, 8 points. Single droid with built-in wrist blaster (level 3 blaster) in right hand, built-in rocket launcher (2 rockets, delay between shots) in left hand, moderate force resistance, 75hp.

Level 3: Droideka, 8 points. Single destroyer droid, Twin cannons (2x level 2 blaster), deflector shield (absorbs large amount of firepower), wheel movement mode (allows quick movement, takes some time to get in and out of mode), good force resistance, 35hp (much shield though)

 

I was kinda thinking the same thing originally about the super battle droid except for the rocket launcher part. This might be too hard of a feature to add this way though. We need some more competent coders who are willing to do really hard stuff.

 

good ideas I think, Max.

 

But we don't have to make it as complicated as that, you could also just add an extra set of force powers that have one bubble and cost 15 points a pop that give the Jedi some OJP features like auto-dodge or auto-push

 

Like I said before, we need new picture graphics for bubbles over 8 points. Again, anybody want to make some higher point bubbles?

[UDM]

I can whip up some in minutes. If you're online and you want it, just let me know

[JRHockney*]

I can whip up some in minutes. If you're online and you want it, just let me know

 

I myself might want some eventually, but if you do make some, send them to Razor or Darthdie since they can both compile the code without any problems and make changes repository worthy. I can't compile the direct repository code because of some issues that even Razor hasnt been able to figure out yet Either way, it would be great to have some new bubbles available.

[Maxstate]

I made the ones with the Roman numerals and after that I never really bothered anymore.. But making something >9 is fairly easy.

 

You could also make it two bubbles of 7 and 8

[JRHockney*]

First of all, great job on the new features of 0.0.9t. the parries look much better and the ground shots and item usuage go along ways towards balance. After playing with this new build and the older one for a while, there are a few things I think need to be changed, added or thought about more. I've already talk a little bit to razor on some of these, but I thought I'd post about it to get more opinions and keep it going:

 

1. we really need to go back to the old way of attack parrying with the button tap and using the start animation. Before too many attack parries were happening with normal swings, now, people are actually spamming powerattacks/attack fakes because they can just as easily attack parry when while they are trying to do them. I'm not the only one to point this out. And now, pretty much all the veteran OJP saberists I've talked to agree that we need to go back. We should just do something to override the preblocks and also make it so you can't be holding attack when you do the attack parry (so we dont have the same problem as we did before).

 

2. some kind of break out of the saberlocks or parry for them. I would suggested one of the following: 1. make only higher mishap or lower dp saberlocks not escapeable. 2. make getting hit by a third person while in the lock break the lock if you parry that hit (and maybe slowbounce the guy who did it for good measure and more competant two on one combat).

 

3.Someone who's a good coder should try to make the thermal detonator an item or make a auto throw button for it so you can throw it between shots. It could potentailly get alot of halo fans interested I've talked to darth die about tryng to cod eit but he wasnt sure if he could do it. If he can't I think Razor or Ensi would be best for doing that. This could even be a skill!

 

4. Just for realism sake, is it possible to make the saber itself a little more solid? I've heard comments about the blocks too "just animation looking" and the fact that you can touch another person with your idle saber without making them block it or move. If they could block it without losing DP, I think the impression of the sabers solidity would be better put across.

 

5. The jedi vs gunners balance is almost complete, but there is a few things we could and maybe should do: 1. make using force cost a bit more FP so they can't be spamed too much against pure gunner. 2. make the items unusable (even though bind) for gunner who get forcepowers until maybe a certain number of points are earned. The giving them less kill points for having force powers might sort of work, but it just seems a bit too easy.

 

6. One think I noticed when fighting before, is that the collision stop code that I orignially made wasnt quite the same as it is now. While it does stall when you have lower than 1/2 DP It doesnt stall when you take a hit without parrying it. I purposely left the unparried hit stall in there so players couldnt get that far away from each other to dodge things. the running stall was especailly important because I found that to be a bit of a problem in the duels because you could run freely around the person and get better position and whacking them in the back a few time sacrificing a hit. In sort, Ithink those stalls for unparried hits need to return, or at least the running ones if thats too much.

 

7. Disruptor damage on jedis needs to be more significant, especially the charged shot. need I say more ?

 

8. more actual skills that aren't weapons or items, but I think we all new that

 

I have some more, but its late and I can't think of them now....zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz

 

...Huh! What! oh yeah. btw, did the meatgrinder go down again?

[HamstrYODA]

I think something should be done to lightning. Seems to be very powerful atm. Drains much DP and also knocks you down pretty easily. Maybe raise lightning cost little bit.

Or maybe we have too high forceregen atm.

[Maxstate]

I only really think that right now, what we need is more ruptor damage and the more solid sabers.

 

But most of these things are (I hate to say it) still trivial. They are things you only start thinking about when you know you've worked out the remaining bugs and you feel confident enough that adding or improving one of these features will not totally wreck the balance you spent weeks on making.

 

I praise our coders for being so active lately and I really really am enjoying the new changes. OJP is taking another turn for the better and we have it all to thank to Razor Ace, JRHockney and ofcourse DarthDie.

 

However, we must not forget the community that is the reason for OJP looking like it does currently. Thank you guys, keep up the good work.

 

The things you mentioned are very much things that could use improving, but they are minor and trivial and can always be last minute changes when we decide to release a nice big'un release, Hocks. Untill we feel certain that balance or gameplay won't be compromised as much, I suggest we stick to really working out the stuff we have now before we continue.

 

I do however agree that those skills that aren't items or weapons should have a high priority. Some guidelines should be:

-Dodge should be buyable

-Push animation ignoration should be buyable

-Auto-pushing projectiles should be buyable

-Pushing projectiles should be buyable

 

That's just some of the stuff that we ALREADY HAVE that we could more valuable and useful for Jedi.

 

Gunners on the other hand could buy upgrades for speed, jump height, melee strength and gun accuracy.

 

Lightning is a very powerful force power and costs 24 points to get to the level where it is most useful. I would not want to see it lowered in damage more than I would want to see it heightened in cost.

[razorace]

1. we really need to go back to the old way of attack parrying with the button tap and using the start animation.

I guess we could try, but it will prevent players from being able to pre-block while in saber windups. That might look a little funny. Go ahead and bug ticket it.

2. make getting hit by a third person while in the lock break the lock if you parry that hit (and maybe slowbounce the guy who did it for good measure and more competant two on one combat).

We can probably try that. Bug ticket it.

4. Just for realism sake, is it possible to make the saber itself a little more solid? I've heard comments about the blocks too "just animation looking" and the fact that you can touch another person with your idle saber without making them block it or move. If they could block it without losing DP, I think the impression of the sabers solidity would be better put across.

"just animation looking" ? I don't get what you mean? We could make idle sabers cause bounces and blocks but it's going to feel weird. Maybe we could just add animation so that the player holds their saber off to the side or closer to the body if they're standing too close to something with an idle saber.

1. make using force cost a bit more FP so they can't be spamed too much against pure gunner.

Which powers and by how much?

2. make the items unusable (even though bind) for gunner who get forcepowers until maybe a certain number of points are earned.

I don't think we should do that. It is counter intuitive.

6. One think I noticed when fighting before, is that the collision stop code that I orignially made wasnt quite the same as it is now. While it does stall when you have lower than 1/2 DP It doesnt stall when you take a hit without parrying it.

Unfortunately, your code didn't really work based on what it did. I can add them back in with proper code if you make a bug ticket explaining what they were supposed to do.

7. Disruptor damage on jedis needs to be more significant, especially the charged shot. need I say more ?

Bug ticket. Remind me to check to see if bolt blocks cost more when attacked from the rear.

...Huh! What! oh yeah. btw, did the meatgrinder go down again?

It's probably just crashing periodically. I haven't found the cause yet. Send me the qconsole.log and game.log, delete them, and then just reset the server by starting Custom Script 1.

[JRHockney*]

Which powers and by how much?

 

We might have to debate that a bit. Push and pull definitely. I forget how much they cost , but you should only be about to push or pull 2 or 3 times before getting too low to use them. Lightning, mindtrick and grip are open especailly to debate.

 

I don't think we should do that. It is counter intuitive.

 

Yeah but we really should do something thats not a cheap way of solving it. Maybe darken All items on the skill menu if you get both force powers and guns until a higher point level?

 

Also, how does the low DP force vulnerability work now? it didn't seem to work when I fought jack the other night.

 

I do however agree that those skills that aren't items or weapons should have a high priority. Some guidelines should be:

-Dodge should be buyable

-Push animation ignoration should be buyable

-Auto-pushing projectiles should be buyable

-Pushing projectiles should be buyable

 

That's just some of the stuff that we ALREADY HAVE that we could more valuable and useful for Jedi.

 

Gunners on the other hand could buy upgrades for speed, jump height, melee strength and gun accuracy.

 

Lightning is a very powerful force power and costs 24 points to get to the level where it is most useful. I would not want to see it lowered in damage more than I would want to see it heightened in cost.

 

Probably good ideas.

[razorace]

I don't remember about the low DP->Force vulnerability. Check the changelog.

[madcatmach2]

well the disruptor should be un dodge a bull unless they have since on cus right now it just gives away your position and after last night i tried not to spam the "Blobs" but for the players who would why not add a cool down for them like the missile launcher

[Maxstate]

A suggestion: Force jump should be disabled whenever carrying anything other than a saber or melee.

[JRHockney*]

I just had an interesting idea that I shared with Razor and he said to post here:

 

Make a true RPG server feature that works like the kill tracker....except for with skill points!! If this feature is turned on, every 100 skill points players earn, they get 1 point added to their skill point game starting minimum when they start at a a server with it on. It will only count the points earned while playing on this mode.

 

The players them selves will also have a cvar option to turn it on or off at for when they start a level. In that case, it will start the player at the default starting level. maybe there should also be an cvar option for keeping track of the points as well.

 

This would truly make our mod a have an RPG feature and get RPGers hooked and we'll have more people to play with (yes even if they are RPGers. LOL ). What do you guys think?

[madcatmach2]

i like it

[Maxstate]

It's a fine idea but it doesn't fix the Juyo animations, nor does it fix the makashi animations or even tone down the hybrid classes.

[UDM]

I like it but as Max said, let's focus on balancing the current problems first. That'll be a great idea in future though

 

Anyway, the best way to fix the power of hybrid classes is still to make it so that they cannot purchase force powers higher than level 1 without reaching a certain skill level first. It's to nerf them, but not so badly that it turns people away. I mean at the end of the day, hybrids still can force jump, force lightning, have some sort of protection against force, but they're not invincible

[JRHockney*]

I like it but as Max said, let's focus on balancing the current problems first. That'll be a great idea in future though

 

Anyway, the best way to fix the power of hybrid classes is still to make it so that they cannot purchase force powers higher than level 1 without reaching a certain skill level first. It's to nerf them, but not so badly that it turns people away. I mean at the end of the day, hybrids still can force jump, force lightning, have some sort of protection against force, but they're not invincible

 

I agree, except I still like my other idea thats based on that better (the one were hybrids only get level 1 or level 2 gunner skills too until they reach 100 or 200 skill points) because going pure gunner won't have any advantages that hybrid gunners will (except for easier access to items).

 

I agree that this balance should take priority, but that idea I have above wouldnt take very long at all to put in. Heck, Darth Die could do it easily too most likely.

[Maxstate]

Ensi, is the new Force Speed coming into the next 009?

[Lathain Valtiel]

Ugh.

 

People, I'm gonna say this once.

 

Limiting hybrid skills by forcing side choices will not do what you want, take my word for it. The exact same thing happened in Promod 3: Hybrids who could only acquire weaker-than-normal guns and Lv. 2 Force STILL could beat the ever-loving **** out of pures one-on-one, simply because of the fact you never knew when they would pull a rocket on you and ram it down your throat. The power of versatility is simply too absolute in Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy: they have long range guns PLUS respectable melee prowess and you don't. And since there is nothing realy stopping you from pulling a gun out at close range...

[Maxstate]

Ugh.

 

People, I'm gonna say this once.

 

Limiting hybrid skills by forcing side choices will not do what you want, take my word for it. The exact same thing happened in Promod 3: Hybrids who could only acquire weaker-than-normal guns and Lv. 2 Force STILL could beat the ever-loving **** out of pures one-on-one, simply because of the fact you never knew when they would pull a rocket on you and ram it down your throat. The power of versatility is simply too absolute in Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy: they have long range guns and you don't. There's a reason no one seriously melees in war anymore if they can help it.

 

Rockets have a cooldown, maximum of 3 rockets and are (auto)pushable.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Wait out the rocket cool with flamer or lightning. Really I've never found it very difficult... but most of the time I find that pure Jedi, after burning their FP or whatever the meter is on trying to hit you with their cumbersome melee weapon and blocking, don't have the (FP?) to autopush when they need to.

 

The key is judgment, and frankly I find that I am quite good at making that judgment... and shooting people in the back.

[Maxstate]

How long ago was it that you've played any OJP? How long ago did you play against humans?

 

Your judgement is outbalanced by the fact that you use no Absorb in your pure gunner build, which makes your opinion void since the discussion was about hybrids.

 

We've discussed the many things that people find annoying and overpowered about hybrids.. the biggest however seems the fact that they can use Jump to dodge saber attacks and this will be (hopefully, I've got Ace to back me up) dealt with in 009u.

For now I think this'll be more than enough balancing for the hybrid 'class' and other than the aforementioned deflecting problem there'll be little to none 'real' problems with the hybrid's balance.