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Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win


Anakin Skywalker
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Who would win in a fight?  

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  1. 1. Who would win in a fight?

    • Revan
      149
    • Nihilus
      52


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I think Revan would have no problem in getting Nihilus eliminated, after all Nihilus doesn't seem to be used to thinking. Or planning.

 

However, it is obvious that Revan could not eliminate him in single combat, without some help unknown to us. A Ysalamiri for example.

 

@: Jediphile

Wasn't that power which Kreia used to instantly kill 3 powerful Jedi Masters Force drain too? It definitly seems like it. And it looks like it worked so fast, that there would be no defend against it. Is that the same ability Nihilus has, or is it just another uncounterable instantly-lethal force drain?

 

Oh yeah I forgot about the ways to stop the force.

 

In refrance to above Revan was the dark lord of the sith. Which means he must have done a lot of exploring of the galaxy. There could be no doubt that he would know of a Ysalamiri and use it against Nihilus. We all know what a Ysalamiri does against the force.

 

But anyway it all really depends on what Lucasarts does in the battle. There could be hundreds of outcomes.

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All these "what ifs" are irrelevant. Whether Revan could bring an army of droids or a few Ysalimiri with him doesn't matter. We're talking about a 1 vs. 1 fight between Nihilus and Revan with nothing but the Force and their lightsabers as weapons and/or defense.

 

Anyway' date=' speculation is what we all do here. It is what you do, what I do, what everyone else do. This is fiction, for crying out loud. The more seriously you take it, the more amusing it gets (Nihilus' drain, anyone?).[/quote']

Of course we all speculate, but we also have to base our speculations on facts. The fact remains that there is no "anti-Nihilus" power that we know of. Could there be one? Of course, but until an official source says so, it doesn't currently exist. Simply because Revan is a powerful Jedi certainly does not mean he could somehow find a way around Nihilus' power. Could Yoda do this? Or Mace Windu? Obi-Wan? Luke? Vader? (I realize they don't live in the same time period, but suppose they were) Revan is not mcuh more powerful (if at all) than any of them, so if I followed your logic, they must be able to defeat Nihilus.

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I'm extremely doubtful Ysalimiri would work on Nihilus, to be honest. After all, he is a whole in the Force, an unnatural wound that is to it what dark is to light. Ysalimiri cancel out the effects of people who could be considered "positive" spots in the Force, but I'm doubtful they could do that for "negatives."

 

Nihilus is much more similar to them than to regular Jedi - both of them act as a sort of anti-Force, the only difference being that the Ysalimiri cancel out the Force whereas Nihilus eats it. He's too similar to them to be affected.

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I have no quarrel or doubt about Revan's strategic abilities. If that comes into play, then I'd put my money on Revan. However, I think in this case we're talking about a straight one-on-one fight, and I don't see how Revan could possibly win that. Nihilus could drain him dry long before Revan ever got close enough to do anything to him.

It is not so easy as you make it out to be. Remember that Revan was a master practitioner of Force Lightning. And you should know that a powerful burst of Force Lightning is highly lethal to any living being.

 

It depends upon that how fast Nihilus can react.

 

- If Revan hits first, he wins.

- And if Nihilus hits first, he wins.

 

And do note that Revan is no push-over for any person in combat.

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It is not so easy as you make it out to be. Remember that Revan was a master practitioner of Force Lightning. And we know that strong burst of Force Lightning is highly lethal for any living being.

 

Revan has no particular high skill with force lightning. Sure he could do it, and since he was fairly powerful, he was good at it, but that's about it.

 

It depends that how fast Nihilus can react.

 

- If Revan hits first, he wins.

- And if Nihilus hits first, he wins.

 

Revan is no pushover for any person in combat.

 

Nor was the entire CONCLAVE of Jedi on Katarr. Yet they all bit the dust, no problem. Revan may be powerful, but not more than the entire conclave of jedi. You'd think at least a few of them could react before Nihilus... but then unlike Nihilus, they cannot use their powers from an orbiting distance.

 

It's not a question of Revan being a pushover - it's a question of Nihilus being powerful in a way that most jedi, including Revan, are powerless again.

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A slight problem with that theory, though...

 

Kreia (about Nihilus): "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

 

So no, Revan could have learned it because that is not possible. Besides, Kreia has been in the Trayus Academy longer than Revan, and while we can argue her strength in the force next to Revan's, she is far more of a scholar than Revan will ever be. So I think it's fair to assume that if the power could be learned, or defended against, then Kreia would have learned both. And yet she says, even as we see the cutscene where Nihilus unpowers her:

 

Kreia: "There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense."

Once again! You put too much faith on Kriea, which is not advisable. I will explain how.

 

First of all, Kriea is a Sith Lord in disguise and wise Sith Lords never reveal all the sensitive information they know even to their apprentices or they would be considered as fools. Kriea even kept her true identity hidden for a long period from Exile, because she wanted to further her goals and Exile was the perfect tool.

 

Revan too did not reveal all he knew to Malak.

 

The technique that Nihilus demonstrated can be learned. He actually did not invent it, he learned it from somewhere but the important thing to note is that Nihilus took that power to a new level due to his un-controlled hunger.

 

Kriea believed that that technique cannot be taught but that is her opinion. Or it is possible that she is not telling Exile the whole truth.

 

And when Kriea reached Malalchor V, it was already a destroyed planet with only few places intact and lots of sources of information were lost.

 

But when Revan reached Malalchor V, it was a fully intact planet and and according to a canon source "The Chronicles", Malachor V harboured several cities and tombs that contained immense knowledge about the Sith and not just the Trayas Academy.

 

Here is the exact quote: Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side.

 

Now you see that Kriea could not gain as much knowledge from Malachor V as Revan did because few places of that planet remained intact after the destructive Mandalorian war.

 

So Revan obviously gained more knowledge.

 

And being a great scholar does not means that you surpass all in terms of knowledge. Revan gained tremendous knowledge by traveling to so many regions that we do not know. He not only gained immense knowledge but also discovered those things that remained hidden for thousands of years. Kriea never made such discoveries.

 

I can safely say that Revan’s knowledge base is superior to that of Kriea. Like it or not, Kriea is not an all knowing person.

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Revan has no particular high skill with force lightning. Sure he could do it, and since he was fairly powerful, he was good at it, but that's about it.

You are sadly mistaken if you think like this. Did you noticed that Malak was a master practitioner of Fore Lightning (in the first game)?

 

He could torture and break the will of strong Jedi with his Force Lightning. He could even instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning , if he wanted to and he demonstrated this capability on the Star Forge.

 

Now Revan was more powerful then Malak in many aspects of the Force. And Drew says that Revan was also a master practitioner of Force Lightning. Guess what? an opinion of an expert matters more then that of yours.

 

So your logic holds no water here.

 

Nor was the entire CONCLAVE of Jedi on Katarr. Yet they all bit the dust, no problem. Revan may be powerful, but not more than the entire conclave of jedi. You'd think at least a few of them could react before Nihilus... but then unlike Nihilus, they cannot use their powers from an orbiting distance.

You are making an illogical comparison here. I never said that Revan was more powerful then all those Jedi combined together. Even Yoda was not that powerful.

 

I never doubted the fact that if Revan gets caught in that Super-Drain attack of Nihilus, he will not survive. Of-course! he will not.

 

But destroying an entire planet is a different thing then attacking a single powerful and experienced Jedi or Sith, who is standing near you and ready to kill you.

 

A person can actually dodge an attack but a planet cannot. Nihilus will need to focus on the Revan's position and launch an attack with some degree of precision. But how quickly it will generate and reach the intended target, is questionable. And Revan can quickly "Force-Jump" right in to the position of Nihilus and slice him with his Light Saber. It is not that difficult.

 

It's not a question of Revan being a pushover - it's a question of Nihilus being powerful in a way that most jedi, including Revan, are powerless again.

I agree that most Jedi are powerless against Nihilus' Super drain but the outcome in an actual 1 on 1 fight is determined by several factors and not just by power.

 

Do you remember that how Anakin destroyed Count Dooku on that ship (as shown in ROTS Movie)? Although Dooku was capable enought to defeat Anakin through the Force but Anakin denied him that chance.

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The technique that Nihilus demonstrated can be learned. He actually did not invent it, he learned it from somewhere but the important thing to note is that Nihilus took that power to a new level due to his un-controlled hunger.

 

That is pure speculation. You can doubt Kreia, but she remains the only source of information we have on Nihilus' power, so I'll take her word over, well, no source at all whatsoever.

 

But when Revan reached Malalchor V, it was a fully intact planet and and according to a canon source "The Chronicles", Malachor V harboured several cities and tombs that contained immense knowledge about the Sith and not just the Trayas Academy.

 

Here is the exact quote: Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side.

 

Now you see that Kriea could not gain as much knowledge from Malachor V as Revan did because few places of that planet remained intact after the destructive Mandalorian war.

 

Though you have quoted correctly, your conclusion remains only speculative.

 

Revan gaining more knowledge than Kreia is questionable at best. One very obvious point of doubt is time. Revan was in the middle of fighting a war, while Kreia had years to ponder over the secrets of the Sith.

 

You are sadly mistaken if you think like this. Did you noticed that Malak was a master practitioner of Fore Lightning (in the first game)?

 

And how do we know this of Revan's abilities? From "The One", a very evil person and therefore at least as questionable a source of information as Kreia.

 

He could torture and break the will of strong Jedi with his Force Lightning. He could even instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning , if he wanted to and he demonstrated this capability on the Star Forge.

 

All entirely speculative.

 

You are making an illogical comparison here. I never said that Revan was more powerful then all those Jedi combined together. Even Yoda was not that powerful.

 

I never doubted the fact that if Revan gets caught in that Super-Drain attack of Nihilus, he will not survive. Of-course! he will not.

 

Thank you for conceding that point.

 

But destroying an entire planet is a different thing then attacking a single powerful and experienced Jedi or Sith, who is standing near you and ready to kill you.

 

A person can actually dodge an attack but a planet cannot. Nihilus will need to focus on the Revan's position and launch an attack with some degree of precision. But how quickly it will generate and reach the intended target, is questionable. And Revan can quickly "Force-Jump" right in to the position of Nihilus and slice him with his Light Saber. It is not that difficult.

 

Complete speculation. You cannot state that as fact when we just don't know if that is possible. And the closest source we have would suggest otherwise...

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2_4r6GjgWDI

 

Do you remember that how Anakin destroyed Count Dooku on that ship (as shown in ROTS Movie)? Although Dooku was capable enought to defeat Anakin through the Force but Anakin denied him that chance.

 

That's also subject to speculation, but it's a moot point since we cannot assume that it applies in any way to Nihilus.

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EagerWeasel, the words "fact" and "fiction" don't look quite harmonious from where I'm standing.

 

No doubt it's best to contribute in any kind of discussion with logical and grounded conclusions, but this is exactly what I tried to do in my first post, not the opposite. If you followed my logic, you wouldn't draw such a conclusion, since none of those Jedi you mentioned knew the secrets Malachor V had held. Having studied from many many more sources than most of the Jedi we've heard the names of so far, Revan probably learned more about how the Force works than we could ever speculate here. It's only convenient if he learned how the Force can be used to drain the life essence from anything that is connected to it, and in addition, how one can render themselves immune against this technique.

 

From what I've seen so far, being fully aware of the threat is the biggest step towards countering a technique in the SW universe.

 

Besides, I wouldn't take anything Kreia said at face value; that would be a grave, even ridiculous, error. However, if one's to give her credit... She may have said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense, but she's also the one who said "Nothing is impossible with the Force."

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No doubt it's best to contribute in any kind of discussion with logical and grounded conclusions' date=' but this is exactly what I tried to do in my first post, not the opposite. If you followed my logic, you wouldn't draw such a conclusion, since none of those Jedi you mentioned knew the secrets Malachor V had held. Having studied from many many more sources than most of the Jedi we've heard the names of so far, Revan probably learned more about how the Force works than we could ever speculate here. It's only convenient if he learned how the Force can be used to drain the life essence from anything that is connected to it, and in addition, how one can render themselves immune against this technique.[/quote']

 

Which has just the problem you describe in that it's speculative.

 

Besides' date=' I wouldn't take anything Kreia said at face value; that would be a grave, even ridiculous, error. However, if one's to give her credit... She may have said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense, but she's also the one who said "Nothing is impossible with the Force."[/quote']

 

While you shouldn't take anything Kreia says at face value, her comments are often interesting if taken quite literally. The annoying thing about Kreia is that she never quite lies, but she never quite tells the truth either. Like when she infers to the exile that the masters had something to do with his loss of the force, but without ever saying it. She wants the exile to think it, but she just gives enough half-truths and loaded questions to plant the idea without actually saying it, because she knows that's not the truth. She's a sly, old hag. I rather like her ;)

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That is pure speculation. You can doubt Kreia, but she remains the only source of information we have on Nihilus' power, so I'll take her word over, well, no source at all whatsoever.

It is a logical deduction actually and I have explained about the true nature of a Sith Lord in simple words. Remember that people do lie and do not speak the truth all the time. SW characters are no exceptions to this and it includes Kriea as well.

 

What Kriea says is not always right.

 

Though you have quoted correctly, your conclusion remains only speculative.

Speculative? you seem to have no counter argument then? Not very convincing indeed. My conclusion is based on the observation from that quote.

 

I have told you the reason (backed by a source) that why Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V then Kriea. There should be no doubt about this.

 

Revan gaining more knowledge than Kreia is questionable at best. One very obvious point of doubt is time. Revan was in the middle of fighting a war, while Kreia had years to ponder over the secrets of the Sith.

No it is not.

 

Revan had ample time to explore several worlds to study Sith and it is not necessary that he was always busy in the War. He explored the forbidden world of Malachor V during the Mandalorian Conflict.

 

Apart from this he journeyed to several worlds for discovery of Star Forge. He even explored the world of Korriban and the tombs of the ancients that you see in the KOTOR were all discovered by Revan. He then established that Korriban Sith Academy near those tombs and initiated more excavation programs to discover more secrets of the Sith.

 

And how do we know this of Revan's abilities? From "The One", a very evil person and therefore at least as questionable a source of information as Kreia.

The One is not the only source. You failed to note that Malak was actually trained in the ways of the Sith by Revan. So what Malak demonstrated, Revan already knew those techniques. And not to forget the fact that Revan did not taught Malak all the techniques he knew.

 

All entirely speculative.

Nice argument. Either generate a counter-argument or quit debating.

 

Thank you for conceding that point.

I always agree with facts. You don't need to thank me for this but you are still welcome.

 

Complete speculation. You cannot state that as fact when we just don't know if that is possible. And the closest source we have would suggest otherwise...

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2_4r6GjgWDI

Do you need everything to be spoon-fed to you from some sources to understand? Force Jump is an ability that is taught to most Jedi Knights. Revan is a Jedi Knight and he can perform that kind of attack using this ability.

 

And that video is a cut-content material. Not all consider it to be an authenticated source for argument, so my question still remains.

 

That's also subject to speculation, but it's a moot point since we cannot assume that it applies in any way to Nihilus.

How it is a moot point? I gave an example of a fight in the movies, in which Anakin managed to over-whelm Dooku through his impressive speed and elite saber skills. He never gave Dooku enough chance to use Force attacks on him and Dooku lost.

 

If Revan Force-Jumps right in to the position of Nihilus with his ignited Saber and strikes, Nihilus will be in serious trouble and he will have no option but to counter with his Saber (if he manages to draw it out in time) but even then he will loose.

 

Thus I have stated a single possibility in which Revan can gain advantage over Nihilus.

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...There are but few words to reply to JEdiPhile's thread, as Awsome, or Great fall short of how good that FACT (:p Screw Theory! I think its true!) is. SO I SHALL LET THE SIMILES DANCE INSTEAD!

 

:cowdance:sbdance:guitar2

:lock::elephant:

:band1:rock::mm1

 

:hoops1::clap2:

 

No, but in all seriousness, thats a freaking awsome post, GJ JediPhile. More than enough to change my mind about Nhil.

 

SO I have offically changed my mind about this battle..NHIL WOULD PWN REVAN :D > . <

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Which has just the problem you describe in that it's speculative.
So? Do you propose we should sink ourselves in a pile of TotJ books and the like and gather enough 'evidence' to support our 'claims' if we wanna be worthy enough to put in our two cents? I stated who I think would have a better chance in a hypothetical duel and I gave my reasons. Backed up by novels or not, that's what I find more reasonable and I've wasted enough time "fighting for my cause" already. Nobody's forced to see things my way, and if you think there's anything that sounds illogical in my argument, feel free to bring it forward.

 

While you shouldn't take anything Kreia says at face value, her comments are often interesting if taken quite literally. The annoying thing about Kreia is that she never quite lies, but she never quite tells the truth either. Like when she infers to the exile that the masters had something to do with his loss of the force, but without ever saying it. She wants the exile to think it, but she just gives enough half-truths and loaded questions to plant the idea without actually saying it, because she knows that's not the truth. She's a sly, old hag. I rather like her ;)
Not that simple. She lies on the Exile's face here and there, in times when it seems the most effective course of manipulating her. What you say is true most of the time, but not all the time. However, although she never said that there's no known defense against Nihilus' power, perhaps she's indeed unaware of any such defense, thus directing us towards such a supposition. Sorry... I'm speculating again. I apologize.

 

And why do you like that sly, old hag? Because I like her too and I'd like to find the reason. :)

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It is a logical deduction actually and I have explained about the true nature of a Sith Lord in simple words. Remember that people do lie and do not speak the truth all the time. SW characters are no exceptions to this and it includes Kriea as well.

 

What Kriea says is not always right.

 

Not necessarily, no. Oddly, I find that Kreia never actually tells a complete lie if you examine what she actually does say ever so carefully. That said, I'll freely admit that if Kreia told me water was wet, I would check with at least three other people before I believed her ;)

 

And I take it rather than believe Kreia for lack of better source, you prefer to believe, well, whatever you prefer to believe? Well, I do see your point... Claiming whatever you like and dismissing the only source you have out of hand does make it much easier to make the claim. Don't expect me to be convinced, though.

 

Speculative? you seem to have no counter argument then? Not very convincing indeed. My conclusion is based on the observation from that quote.

 

Yes, but I've read the quote too, and my conclusion is rather different, so where does that leave us?

 

I have told you the reason (backed by a source) that why Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V then Kriea. There should be no doubt about this.

 

And yet there is. What does that tell us?

 

Revan had ample time to explore several worlds to study Sith and it is not necessary that he was always busy in the War. He explored the forbidden world of Malachor V during the Mandalorian Conflict.

 

I don't think he did so as intensively as Kreia did later, because he was fighting a war at the same time. My take on Revan is that he is dedicated to his goals to fault. Almost hellbent, once he is set on a course. He would not be as determined as he is, if that were not so IMHO. It's one of the things that makes him a good strategist. So on that basis I must respectfully disagree with you.

 

The One is not the only source. You failed to note that Malak was actually trained in the ways of the Sith by Revan. So what Malak demonstrated, Revan already knew those techniques. And not to forget the fact that Revan did not taught Malak all the techniques he knew.

 

Which tells us nothing of Revan's abilities.

 

Nice argument. Either generate a counter-argument or quit debating.

 

I try not to make unfounded arguments. I prefer to base mine on what evidence can be gleaned from the sources available.

 

Do you need everything to be spoon-fed to you from some sources to understand? Force Jump is an ability that is taught to most Jedi Knights. Revan is a Jedi Knight and he can perform that kind of attack using this ability.

 

And Nihilus used his power from orbit over Katarr, which would be at least, what, 20000 miles? Revan can force jump that far, I take it?

 

And that video is a cut-content material. Not all consider it to be an authenticated source for argument, so my question still remains.

 

It was cut, but it went far along into production to be written, so I think it's fair to assume that it is at least descriptive of what sort of powers the writers intended for Nihilus to have.

 

How it is a moot point? I gave an example of a fight in the movies, in which Anakin managed to over-whelm Dooku through his impressive speed and elite saber skills. He never gave Dooku enough chance to use Force attacks on him and Dooku lost.

 

It's moot because - as I said before - we have no idea whether the same principle can be applied to Nihilus. So even if I agreed with that what you say here is true, it would still tell us nothing that is relevant to the question of whether Revan could do this to Nihilus or not. And no, I'm not saying whether I agree with you or not, because I don't feel I need to make up my mind on the issue, since it's just redundant to the matter at hand IMHO.

 

If Revan Force-Jumps right in to the position of Nihilus with his ignited Saber and strikes, Nihilus will be in serious trouble and he will have no option but to counter with his Saber (if he manages to draw it out in time) but even then he will loose.

 

Thus I have stated a single possibility in which Revan can gain advantage over Nihilus.

 

Which I humbly disagree with for the reasons stated above.

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I would also like to point out (and I apologize if someone said it already) that Kreia wants Nihilus dead. The Exile is the key to doing that, and it would be in Kreia's best interest to tell the Exile everything she knows about him.

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I would also like to point out (and I apologize if someone said it already) that Kreia wants Nihilus dead. The Exile is the key to doing that, and it would be in Kreia's best interest to tell the Exile everything she knows about him.

 

Exactly. Seriously, it is nonsensical to think that Kreia would lie about such a thing.

 

Even if Revan learned more than Kreia at the Trayus Academy, so what? That doesn’t mean he/she could negate Nihilus force drain.

 

That is nothing but speculation, that Revan would no doubt find a way to counter Nihilus’ draining power. We should only base our arguments on what has been established in the games (and other canon sources outside of the games, but related to the games).

 

Because otherwise you can just make up anything you want. Does an anti-Nihilus power exist? Well yes… the Exile is that power, technically speaking. But does an anti-Nihilus power apart from the Exile exist? Perhaps. Maybe there is; maybe there isn’t. We don’t know do we?

 

I would have to say no however, since in cut content, Darth Sion couldn’t defend himself at all against Darth Nihilus, and Darth Traya knew of no technique that would negate Nihilus’ force draining power.

 

If she did, there’s no question she’d tell the Exile what it is, since she desperately wants Nihilus to be stopped in TSL. And you see, Sion and Traya without doubt had accessed to and studied at the Trayus Academy, and since they didn’t discover any anti-Nihilus power, I doubt Revan did either.

 

Anyhow, if you want to play the supposition game to support Revan, I can assume that an anti-anti Nihilus power exists, can’t I? In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as an anti-Nihilus force power that regular force users like Revan could use in his/her defence.

 

Seriously, that is nothing but speculation. That sounds just like fan-boy nonsense crap to me. Sorry, but it does.

 

Revan would just bond Nihilus to himself/herself? :lol:

 

First off, do you agree that Revan would have to get close to Nihilus in the first place to do this? If so, well, your argument has already been defeated.

 

Because Nihilus drained the entire life of a planet from orbit, meaning that he can detect force users from thousands of miles away and use his power from that distance. So how the hell could Revan get anywhere near Nihilus, without him detecting his/her powerful force sensitivity, and then eating him/her for breakfast?

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Nihilus would kill Revan for sure. No question. I wish the Revan fan-boys would stop letting their huge bias get in the way of their arguments. It truthfully is as irritating as Malak’s laugh.

 

I’d love to see how anyone could bring down this argument.

 

What, can Revan force jump thousands of miles, as Jediphile’s said? Can Revan kill someone approximately 30 000km away from him/her with force storm?

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A lot of you know that I'm the manager of the KOTOR of FileFront. I'm running a poll this week that I started today and won't be changed until next Saturday. Just to give you an idea how people are trigger happy about voting for Revan, even if Revan isn't related to the subject matter. Check this out.

 

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/poll/

 

Read some of the responses and everything. I proved a point that I figured out a long time ago. Putting Revan in a poll at a KOTOR fan based website is pointless.

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Not necessarily, no. Oddly, I find that Kreia never actually tells a complete lie if you examine what she actually does say ever so carefully. That said, I'll freely admit that if Kreia told me water was wet, I would check with at least three other people before I believed her ;)

She is a manipulative Sith Lord, who uses people for her personal interests and holds the title of "Lord of Betrayal" for a good reason. Now how much these kinds of people can be trusted?

 

She even thinks that Ancients are some kind of Force Gods and people of her age are like children playing with toys when compared to them. Seriously, there are many other sources available that point out that Ancients are not so impressive.

 

Do you think that people like Revan, Exile, Sion, Malak and Nihilus are children playing with toys when compared to ancients?

 

You should understand that a huge SW Universe exists outside KOTOR II and how does Kriea percieves it is her own ideology. You should look at other sources as well and then make your conclusions.

 

And I take it rather than believe Kreia for lack of better source, you prefer to believe, well, whatever you prefer to believe? Well, I do see your point... Claiming whatever you like and dismissing the only source you have out of hand does make it much easier to make the claim. Don't expect me to be convinced, though.

Believe me! I consider Kriea to be a very knowledgeable person but that does not means that her point-of-view about all the things are perfect. She does not even understands the importance of machines that Revan used for his purposes. She has a mystical type of personality.

 

And I am not fully dismissing what she says but again I have mentioned a possibility that she cannot be telling the whole truth. Like I said before that Sith Lords tend to keep sensitive information as secrets and Revan also did this. I am not making my own assumptions but using examples of actual happenings that further my point.

 

Yes, but I've read the quote too, and my conclusion is rather different, so where does that leave us?

And what is your conclusion?

 

And yet there is. What does that tell us?

Speak out the doubt then...

 

I don't think he did so as intensively as Kreia did later, because he was fighting a war at the same time. My take on Revan is that he is dedicated to his goals to fault. Almost hellbent, once he is set on a course. He would not be as determined as he is, if that were not so IMHO. It's one of the things that makes him a good strategist. So on that basis I must respectfully disagree with you.

Your thinking does not matters in this case. Actions of Revan speak louder then words.

 

- Revan discovered and explored the forbidden world of Malachor V and established a secret base over there.

- Revan discovered the Star Forge by travelling to various worlds and gathering information about its existance.

- Revan studied Star Forge itself and used it to fuel the power of his Empire.

- Revan explored the world of Korriban and discovered ancient tombs over there and established a Sith Academy over there.

 

So all these events have happened and you cannot deny the truth. Revan was indeed a great strategist but he was actually more then that.

 

I try not to make unfounded arguments. I prefer to base mine on what evidence can be gleaned from the sources available.

And yet you fail to do so in case of Revan. Double standards?

 

And Nihilus used his power from orbit over Katarr, which would be at least, what, 20000 miles? Revan can force jump that far, I take it?

Is this not a 1 on 1 match in a same place?

 

You are again making a baseless and bogus point over here.

 

These comments are getting rather heated. Please avoid calling an opinion 'bogus'. --Jae

 

It was cut, but it went far along into production to be written, so I think it's fair to assume that it is at least descriptive of what sort of powers the writers intended for Nihilus to have.

And still that content was discarded. Why?

 

And also did you noticed that Sion made a terrible mistake by running straight towards Nihilus?

 

It's moot because - as I said before - we have no idea whether the same principle can be applied to Nihilus. So even if I agreed with that what you say here is true, it would still tell us nothing that is relevant to the question of whether Revan could do this to Nihilus or not. And no, I'm not saying whether I agree with you or not, because I don't feel I need to make up my mind on the issue, since it's just redundant to the matter at hand IMHO.

I will take this that you are undecided here. But the possibility that I mentioned remains.

 

Which I humbly disagree with for the reasons stated above.

It is your choice and it does not makes my point false. Sorry!

 

Exactly. Seriously, it is nonsensical to think that Kreia would lie about such a thing.

Why? she is a Sith Lord and Sith Lords do not reveal all the sensitive information that they know even to their apprentices. I have posted an example to back my point.

 

Even if Revan learned more than Kreia at the Trayus Academy, so what? That doesn’t mean he/she could negate Nihilus force drain.

The problem is that Trayus Academy is the only region that we see intact on Malachor V in KOTOR II and many other regions have been destroyed. The Chronciles reveals that there were many other hidden tomb like cities on the surface of an intact Malachor V planet that Revan visited and he explored many of those hidden regions for more knowledge.

 

So things are not just limited to Trayus Academy. And we would never know that Revan might have possibly discovered a secret that could be used to counter Nihilus's Drain technique. After-all what Nihilus exhibited was not his own invention.

 

I’d love to see how anyone could bring down this argument.

 

What, can Revan force jump thousands of miles, as Jediphile’s said? Can Revan kill someone approximately 30 000km away from him/her with force storm?

And yet you fail to realize that we are talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are standing close to each other or in a same place. In this kind of scenario, Revan can surely do what I mentioned.

 

So your point is already moot.

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A lot of you know that I'm the manager of the KOTOR of FileFront. I'm running a poll this week that I started today and won't be changed until next Saturday. Just to give you an idea how people are trigger happy about voting for Revan, even if Revan isn't related to the subject matter. Check this out.

 

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/poll/

 

Read some of the responses and everything. I proved a point that I figured out a long time ago. Putting Revan in a poll at a KOTOR fan based website is pointless.

 

That's just hilarious, yet somehow I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry at this... :(

 

Because more than anything this convinces me that having any sort of meaningful discussion or conversation about Revan is next to pointless once the Revan fanboys get involved... You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...

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You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...

 

**clears throat** Fangirls, too. And no we're not as numerous. Oh, well. :D

 

But even I know the Exile has her limits, just like Revan does, just like Luke, Obi-Wan, and Vader do.

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