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Do you like the new faction, the Zann Consortium?  

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  1. 1. Do you like the new faction, the Zann Consortium?

    • LOVE EM!!
      10
    • yes
      19
    • bit average
      7
    • they're garbage
      12


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Well, actually Jabba's Rancor is a big rancor already, even by common mature bull rancor standards. But Dathomir Rancors are both alot bigger, and smarter. There are tales of one old female rancor who is capable of language.

 

And yes rancors can be deadly even against "mechas" This is especially true if they are enhanced, by tech/alchemy/force/machines/etc A sithed out Rancor can rip up tanks many times more powerful than an ATAT with ease. Well, at least in Dark Empire they do.

 

You're talking about chrysalis beasts - of which Cuddles is certainly not one. It took palpatine a lot of time and resources to make those things...

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Well, actually Jabba's Rancor is a big rancor already, even by common mature bull rancor standards. But Dathomir Rancors are both alot bigger, and smarter. There are tales of one old female rancor who is capable of language.

 

And yes rancors can be deadly even against "mechas" This is especially true if they are enhanced, by tech/alchemy/force/machines/etc A sithed out Rancor can rip up tanks many times more powerful than an ATAT with ease. Well, at least in Dark Empire they do.

 

How much taller than Jabbas rancor? Jabbas rancor is stated to be "possibly 10 meters". As someone said before 4 or 5 times that would be 40-50......and I kind of doubt that is the norm on Dathomir unless some weird EU is cited from nowhere. That leads me to ask, why are they so much taller?

 

How can a rancor take two blaster cannons, and two laser cannons anyway? Rancors are great, yay we all love'em! But call me crazy if I think in the sense of Star Wars that an AT-AT could decimate a rancor.

 

An AT-AT is 22.5, I read the average Rancor is 5-10. What am I missing in the sense that a rancor could take out an AT-AT?

 

Regardless, it was a poor unit of FoC to be the equivalent of an AT-AT, and it doesn't help any that they are overpowered on top of that. :rolleyes:

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Being a purist who only accepts the movies (classic trilogy mostly since I think the new movies are ridiculously over-the-top with their CGI and droids and acrobatics in the saber duels), had a hard time accepting admiral Thrawn, had a hard time accepting Kyle Katarn, and will never ever accept ysalamiri (what a weak and unimaginative way to combat force powers in a novel!), I have a hard time accepting the Zann Consortium alongside these classic trilogy characters and ships.

 

There's also the fact that they're quite overpowered. Those canderous tanks are ridiculous, and their fighters are too powerful with those buzz droids. It's gotten to a point now where when the ZC invades one of my planets with lots of canderous tanks, I just auto-resolve to get to the inevitable loss quicker and not waste my time.

 

I much prefer the classic rebels vs empire. That's one thing I love about this expansion. Vader's SSD kicks ass and is so atmospheric (you really feel like a powerful empire with that in your fleet!), and the rebels get my boyhood hero Luke and some fun new space units.

 

Fun expansion all around, but the ZC need to be toned down especially for space skirmish which is pretty much the only multiplayer option I play, or used to; I don't play FOC online anymore since ZC was practically guaranteed to win every single space skirmish, and everyone always wanted to be them for that reason.

 

EDIT: And I've wondered why in this expansion they didn't make the AT-AT a transport? Isn't that the whole purpose of the AT-AT? Doesn't AT-AT stand for all terrain attack transport? (I've always thought it did, maybe I'm wrong?)I know it can produce stormtroopers but it should also act as a transport.

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How much taller than Jabbas rancor? Jabbas rancor is stated to be "possibly 10 meters". As someone said before 4 or 5 times that would be 40-50......and I kind of doubt that is the norm on Dathomir unless some weird EU is cited from nowhere. That leads me to ask, why are they so much taller?

<SNAP!>

 

First off, Dathomir Rancors are amongst the largest types. THough remember that when you say they are 4-5 times larger than regular rancors it means sidewise, and since its a 3D world they are actually only around 60%-70% larger, making them 16-17 meters tall at max. Big creature? yes, but no where as big as an AT-AT.

 

Plus, AT-AT can carry troops, have long range attacks, and does not eat a mountain of meat everyday even if you are not using it. Also ATAT won't go crazy suddenly and eat half your army for dinner.

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I'd think some heavy blaster cannons could make seared rancor meat pretty quickly--no matter how big the rancor is. After all, size matters not!

 

I don't know, mrsparkle, I think the ysalamiri are pretty imaginitive--after all, in the presence of the Force, evolution ought to produce some creatures capable of Force manipulations. Excellent point about the AT-AT, though--instead of adding the Juggernaut transport, they ought to have given the AT-AT a number of transport slots. Now that's a unit I would have feared: a walking turbolaser tower that could disgorge Dark Troopers right into my base!

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Well when I read that first book by Timothy Zahn and it mentioned these ysalamiri that Thrawn surrounded himself with to negate the force, I thought to myself:

 

"Wow, this author had no idea how to make Thrawn compete with a jedi who can use the force so he just created a creature that negates the force. How cheap! That's like if Tolkien created a creature for the main characters to travel with that can stop Sauron's eye or keep the ringwraiths away." At what point does a creation like ysalamir stop being imaginative and start being a quick and cheap way to deal with a glaring problem in a plot?

 

I was very disappointed. Then again, I'm very disappointed with midichlorians or whatever they're called too. The force was always mystical/paranormal to me not biological.

 

(I'm disappointed with almost everything about the prequels)

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Well when I read that first book by Timothy Zahn and it mentioned these ysalamiri that Thrawn surrounded himself with to negate the force, I thought to myself:

 

"Wow, this author had no idea how to make Thrawn compete with a jedi who can use the force so he just created a creature that negates the force. How cheap!"

 

Actually I thought it was quite clever, especially with the existence of Vornskrs who hunt using the force. It's only logical to have a defense mechanism that cancels it out.

And plus, he could have simply put thrawn in a cortosis/energy shielded mecha.... would that have been better? Or why not go for the oh-so-original idea of simply making him *yet another* Dark Jedi?

 

That's like if Tolkien created a creature for the main characters to travel with that can stop Sauron's eye or keep the ringwraiths away." At what point does a creation like ysalamir stop being imaginative and start being a quick and cheap way to deal with a glaring problem in a plot?

 

He didn't do any of that, but he did make something that simply didn't get affected by the Ring, twice. Those somethings were called Tom Bombidil and Faramir. So the precedent was set. In your opinion, has even Tolkien gone down the route of making cheap ways to deal with plot holes?

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Actually I thought it was quite clever, especially with the existence of Vornskrs who hunt using the force. It's only logical to have a defense mechanism that cancels it out.

And plus, he could have simply put thrawn in a cortosis/energy shielded mecha.... would that have been better? Or why not go for the oh-so-original idea of simply making him *yet another* Dark Jedi?

Well, falcons hunt mice using gravity - it's only logical that mice develop a mechanism that cancels gravity, isn't it?

Well, on the other hand we could also put mice into an amror that deflects bullets, would that be better? Or we could make the mice falcons as well - I don't see another possibility though...

 

He didn't do any of that, but he did make something that simply didn't get affected by the Ring, twice. Those somethings were called Tom Bombidil and Faramir. So the precedent was set. In your opinion, has even Tolkien gone down the route of making cheap ways to deal with plot holes?

Partially true, however:

1. Faramir did get affected by the ring like everyone else, however he was able to resist it (like e.g. Aragorn and Gandalf)

2.Bobadil did not get affected by the ring, however he wasn't a substantial plot element but more an illustration that there are other powers in middle earth than Sauron, the Elves and the Wizards.

Analogous to the breeding of clones using Ysalamiri and the cloning of Luke would perhaps be the following: Bobadil follows Frodo, joins the Fellowship and easily casts the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom, since he is unaffected by it.

Before he can do so however he must duel Sauron in an epic fight, since it is revealed that Sauron is in reality Bombadil's evil step-brother.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

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Vornskrs using the force to hunt is pretty cool. Umm wait, do you mean they use the force to hunt? I don't see why a non-humanoid wouldn't be able to use it. I mean, look at real life cats and dogs. Cats have been known to travel thousands of miles to reunite with a family who moved away and gave it up for adoption. That's almost paranormal an ability, almost as if cats can use the force :), so I can believe another creature can have a rudimentary use of the force in the Star Wars universe.

 

(Unless I'm mistaken and vornskrs don't use it, but only hunt those who do. Then it's kinda silly like ysalamiri.)

 

As far as Tolkien, yeah he didn't actually use those people resistant to the ring as a major plot device. I would much rather have preferred Thrawn to be a dark jedi than someone with a silly way to prevent force powers. It makes a lot more sense and doesn't reek of a cheap way to deal with a problem left over from ROTJ...that being that Luke is now one of the most powerful people in existence who nobody can stand against unless they can also use the force. I guess as an author that's not an easy problem to overcome since it's already been established, but ysalamiri that negate the force? Come on.

 

Back on topic: I just won a GC as rebels. The empire was easy to defeat; the ZC was incredibly difficult. I had an extremely hard time dealing with those canderous tanks. I now use MC-30 frigates (or is it a cruiser?) and their bombs to good effect vs starvipers, but canderous tanks require orbital bombardment and a whole lot of concentrated firepower to destroy. They're quite overpowered even though they're expensive.

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yertyl star wars AINT REAL. the force doesnt exist so you cant compare it to reality like you did with the mouse. for starters sentients that can yse the force HAVE a mechanism against gravity. you see it more then once and read it etc etc. seriously man, you just seem to hate anythink that isnt from the original trilogy.

 

and the vornskrs use the force like a sence, like smell or hearing. i think it works as follows:

 

they detect things in the force, such as jedi and sith do, they feel all the living things, but they prefer to eat things stronger in the force.

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Mr sparkle you are a cool dood...i agree with pretty much everything you and your idea about the ATAT is so obvious that no one has yet suggested it or implemented it :p Good idea.

 

I love LOTR big time but really, they could have destroyed the ring in 5 minutes....Gandalf calls upon Graywir or whatever the giant eagles name is (my memory is shot and I have had 3 hours sleep after a wild deicide concert last night) and get the eagle to bring as many buddies he has and then fly the ring to Mount Doom and drop it in. Unless Sauron made some medieval AA Artillery he is rooted.

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seriously man, you just seem to hate anythink that isnt from the original trilogy.

 

I also dislike many things that aren't from the original trilogy. Some things just don't fit well. And the expanded universe is out of hand. Like lightsaber whips. Lightsaber whips?? Even though lightsabers are fantasy you can almost understand how they work. But an energy beam that acts like a whip? This isn't D&D.

 

And Tolkien too knew about the problem with using the eagles to destroy the ring. He addressed it at some point, but I forgot his reason for that not being possible. I do remember part of the reason being that it just wouldn't make for a good story (just like how evil people have to leave ways for the good guys to defeat them, like the tunnels in the death star II that lead straight to the core). That's also the reason he didn't use Bombadil; that and the fact that the Bombadil portion of the story was written before he finalized the rest of the story. That's why the first half of Fellowship of the Ring feels so much different.

 

Back on topic: You guys think they will make the AT-AT a transport with a patch? I would love to see it. Who says the empire can't have 2 transports? One with lots of firepower but fairly limited as to where it can step and vulnerable to speeder cables, and one without the firepower but more reliable movement?

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Nah i dont think they will. Its something that if they were going to do they would have done by now. When i get motivated again and update my mod I will be adding that feature though. Its not like its going to imbalance the game or anything...sure infantry are protected but how much slower are ATATs compared to Stormtroopers...

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yertyl star wars AINT REAL. the force doesnt exist so you cant compare it to reality like you did with the mouse. for starters sentients that can yse the force HAVE a mechanism against gravity. you see it more then once and read it etc etc. seriously man, you just seem to hate anythink that isnt from the original trilogy.

 

and the vornskrs use the force like a sence, like smell or hearing. i think it works as follows:

 

they detect things in the force, such as jedi and sith do, they feel all the living things, but they prefer to eat things stronger in the force.

I simply regard the Force as something as natural as gravity (in SW that is): "An energy field created by all living things" - and I find it stupid that an animal should have the ability to cancel something like that (especially since it basically is "a living thing" itself).

I'm relatively OK with animals hunting using the Force (well, I am against the concept of Force-sensivity being directly biologically caused though, since it raises a lot of problems)

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Well, falcons hunt mice using gravity - it's only logical that mice develop a mechanism that cancels gravity, isn't it?

Well, on the other hand we could also put mice into an amror that deflects bullets, would that be better? Or we could make the mice falcons as well - I don't see another possibility though...

 

YertyL, your example is so bad that it's borderline retarded. Falcons don't hunt 'using gravity' in the same the Vornskrs use the force. That's just as ridiculous as saying that there animals that hunt using their wings, so that means it's only logical there are creatures that can cancel out wings. Which is obviously complete bull s**t.

 

Falcons sense their prey using sight. Hence mice have a colouration and natural instinct to remain hidden. Sight is one of the major senses in the animal kingdom, and hence it's only logical that there are creatures that can rmeian hidden, either through the ability to mimic, hide, change colour or are camoflaged.

 

In the same way, a creature that uses the force to sense its prey is weak to a creature that can hide it's presence in the force..... in exactly the same way that a creature can hide it's presence in sight.

 

 

Partially true, however:

1. Faramir did get affected by the ring like everyone else, however he was able to resist it (like e.g. Aragorn and Gandalf)

2.Bobadil did not get affected by the ring, however he wasn't a substantial plot element but more an illustration that there are other powers in middle earth than Sauron, the Elves and the Wizards.

Analogous to the breeding of clones using Ysalamiri and the cloning of Luke would perhaps be the following: Bobadil follows Frodo, joins the Fellowship and easily casts the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom, since he is unaffected by it.

Before he can do so however he must duel Sauron in an epic fight, since it is revealed that Sauron is in reality Bombadil's evil step-brother.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

 

I'm not even going to bother to decipher what on earth you're going on about here.

 

I also dislike many things that aren't from the original trilogy. Some things just don't fit well. And the expanded universe is out of hand. Like lightsaber whips. Lightsaber whips?? Even though lightsabers are fantasy you can almost understand how they work. But an energy beam that acts like a whip? This isn't D&D.

 

Who said anything about energy beams? Do you not understand the concept behind a Lightwhip? It's got more in common with Bowcaster quarrels than Lightsabres. It wraps a whip in an energy sheath.

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ok now thats all sorted lol. i think the consortium is a kool idea but yes i agree they shouldnt have such great things, sorta like c&c general zero hour, if you played GLA then you didnt have great tech etc but you could use underhanded meathods, IMO i thinks that zanns forces just need to be toned down :)

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Do you not understand the concept behind a Lightwhip? It's got more in common with Bowcaster quarrels than Lightsabres. It wraps a whip in an energy sheath.

 

No I don't understand the concept behind a lightwhip, and I don't know what a bowcaster quarrel is. All I know is in FOC there's a female who uses a lightsaber whip. Is the whip wrapped in an energy sheath? It's not made entirely of energy like a lightsaber? I can accept that if that's the case. If it's not and the whip is pure energy, then I just can't accept it...some things are so fantasy they're actually too much fantasy, you know?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I find it funny how people are still able to say a certain faction "pwns" when in actuality they should be balanced. I used the Rebels in the first game, but now the Empire falls prey to the mighty Zann Consortium.......so yeah, I think they're quite good. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
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