Immortality

[Sabretooth]

That's where the drugs come in. If an immortal person is depressed, just give him some Happy Pills. If there are side-effects, the immortal person can handle them, but as long as the immortal person is eternally drug, he would be eternally happy.

 

Giving Happy Pills to miserable immortals would be equivalent to eradicating world poverty, or providing a laptop to every Afican schoolchild, or heck, eradicating drug abuse. Besides, there is the perfect possibility of the rich exploiting the Happy Pills, the black market business and so on. In the end, the miserable bums don't get their Happy Pills and so they are even more unhappy.

 

IMO, Immortality is connected to misery, either direct or romantic. There is no way around it.

[HerbieZ]

I view suicide as a terrible crime, as you are desecrating the cicle of life by endin yours. But if you use suicide just because you are bored of living, then by all means you should burn in hell or be reincarnated as an ant.

 

Depression usually causes this state. If you are saying all the depressed people in the world who killed themselves should rot in hell, then you are narrow minded indeed. Try to incorporate a larger view of things that happen and not just tap them down to this 'One excuse, one sentence' track of thinking.

 

If Immortality existed, I think we would be creating an army of psychopaths thats for sure. Crimes would need harsher punishments. That means everyone one of the thieves, robbers, rapists that serve time in prison would eventually get out. Repeated incarcerations and a public living in fear.

 

That's where the drugs come in. If an immortal person is depressed, just give him some Happy Pills. If there are side-effects, the immortal person can handle them, but as long as the immortal person is eternally drug, he would be eternally happy.

 

Oh and 'Happy pills' don't work that way.

[i_shot_the_jedi]

I neither know nor care whether my existence terminates at the end of my life (once it's ended, how will I know that it has?) or whether I go to live with a greater power. But I do know this: to extend our lives unto immortality is selfish and greedy; it perverts the course of nature and stagnates society. Why must we follow such a path when we have a great space of time (hey, what can you not do in about 80 years!?) to live in already? Why must we say that the glass is half empty?

 

We have each been given our allotted time on this Earth and it is up to us to spend it the right way. Which would you rather have - a bright spark of a truly wonderful life; or a long dull eternity of senility and then madness?

[Windu Chi]

But I do know this: to extend our lives unto immortality is selfish and greedy; it perverts the course of nature and stagnates society.

 

Stagnate what society, Earth; there is a whole infinite society out there beyond Earth.

I will enjoy the choice of living forever and ever...to explore that endless society

of existence, a chance to see civilizations rise and fall; see galaxies the universe evolve over the eons and experience other things that I can't even imagine yet.

 

If immortality is selfish and greedy, then so be it.

 

We have each been given our allotted time on this Earth and it is up to us to spend it the right way. Which would you rather have - a bright spark of a truly wonderful life; or a long dull eternity of senility and then madness?

 

If the existence is infinite and complex, as I suspect it is, then I highly doubt it will be dull, i_shot_the_jedi.

I don't know what happens after death, but I will find the idea of living in a utopia such as heaven or other paradise realms as dull; if you are living in a utopia for eternity, everything will go right for every individual there, there will be no challenges to take part in, I enjoy adventure and challenges.

 

It will be a endless existence that will be very boring and unexciting forever, in my opinion.

[i_shot_the_jedi]

Stagnate what society, Earth; there is a whole infinite society out there beyond Earth. I will enjoy the choice of living forever and ever...to explore that endless society. of existence, a chance to see civilizations rise and fall; see galaxies the universe evolve over the eons and experience other things that I can't even imagine yet.

 

If immortality is selfish and greedy, then so be it.

 

Say what now? An 'infinite society out there beyound Earth'? I'm not sure that your usage of the word 'society' is correct.

 

Don't think that because your life has been extended that the universe suddenly becomes your oyster... we've barely even lifted ourselves off this little rock. Heck, we don't even know whether we'll survive the next few centuries. With immortality, one does not instantly attain wisdom; and one can only reach certain limits. By lowering the birth rate as well as the death rate we will keep the human race stuck at one point in evolution and thus preventing any change; especially if people stay in the same roles in society for thousands of years. So yes, society will stagnate.

 

I'm afraid that your vague dreamy statements are wishful, not realistic.

 

If the existence is infinite and complex, as I suspect it is, then I highly doubt it will be dull, i_shot_the_jedi.

 

Until we manage to reach other habitable planets then yes, it will be dull - much as a prison cell gets dull a short whule after having stepped into it. You can decorate the walls somehow or find some way to spend your time, but this will only make things better for a little while.

 

Living as it is now is not a prison cell, because our current life spans are so short that we are unable to discover everything before we die. But with immortality, the world becomes much smaller and things that will have been new and wonderful to you as a child become as insignificant as the marks on a prison wall.

 

I don't know what happens after death, but I will find the idea of living in a utopia such as heaven or other paradise realms as dull; if you are living in a utopia for eternity, everything will go right for every individual there, there will be no challenges to take part in, I enjoy adventure and challenges. It will be a endless existence that will be very boring and unexciting forever, in my opinion.

 

I'm afraid we have no idea what Heaven would be like, if it exists. However, I do not think you should judge Heaven until you've experienced it or seen what it is made of. My mother always said the same thing about trying new foods, bless her soul.

[Corinthian]

I'm sure there are methods to increase the human lifespan beyond what it already is. But immortality, no. Eventually, the deficiencies in cellular mitosis will catch up. It won't happen, not this time. Next time, for all of us. Although many won't enjoy it.

[tk102]

I thought J.R.R. Tolkien did a good job comparing the immortal Elves with the mortal Men and showing the advantages and disadvantages of both. The Elves had deeper wisdom than Men and were more closely attuned to nature. Men were more passionate and quicker to action. The fact that they died was considered to be a gift that would eventually be envied by both the Elves and the Powers.

 

The Elves did not die natural deaths, but eventually grew weary of the world traveled to the Undying Lands with the Powers. This was Tolkien's solution to suicide (which really doesn't help us, I know.) But I think in an immortal society, suicide would not carry the stigma that it does in a mortal one. It would probably become something sacred with a form of ceremony.

 

The Elves became skilled in all forms art over their lifetime, having eternal patience to perfect their crafts. Emperor Devon mentioned this in regards to scientific progress. In conjunction with this, I would expect immortality to impart wisdom that would help steer scientific endeavors towards more constructive ends. The military would not be the driving force for new technologies as it is so often today. I would also expect there to be less greed and more cooperation since we would all be living with each other for a long, long time. No point in just "living for today" in an immortal society.

[Windu Chi]

Say what now? An 'infinite society out there beyound Earth'? I'm not sure that your usage of the word 'society' is correct.

 

Many of us can call what maybe be out there what we want to call it.

But I will call it a society; it also can be called a infinite reality of infinite complexity.

 

Don't think that because your life has been extended that the universe suddenly becomes your oyster... we've barely even lifted ourselves off this little rock.

Of course, we've barely lifted off this rock, because this society, most of our species is lazy, uninterested and non passionate about interstellar travel.

If some in our societal species stop becoming sceptical of the ideas of interstellar travel; stop finding the idea of interstellar travel amusing thought, this rock will finally become insignificant as we start to explore the great expanse of this galaxy and universe.

Skeptism is a decease of the imagination a shackle to inspiration and a danger to wisdom.

The skeptical path is a blind one.

Another thing people in our society should know, there is no science fiction, there is science faction, nothing is impossible, there is no never happen and there is no, it can't be done ever.

 

When people start realizing that, then maybe we will make the universe our oyster.

 

 

Heck, we don't even know whether we'll survive the next few centuries. With immortality, one does not instantly attain wisdom; and one can only reach certain limits.

If you are immortal the only limits is the unknowns of reality.

Of course, one don't instantly attain wisdom, if you live forever enlightenment will be a forever goal to obtain if our society idea of wisdom is right.

 

By lowering the birth rate as well as the death rate we will keep the human race stuck at one point in evolution and thus preventing any change; especially if people stay in the same roles in society for thousands of years. So yes, society will stagnate.

If we leave Earth society will prosper, if we play our card right.

Of course, we will stagnate if we still remain here for a thousand more years.

 

I'm afraid that your vague dreamy statements are wishful, not realistic.

Skeptism !

That's why you fail.

 

You must know, a lot of the things that define our society now, was once dreamy statements and wishful thinking.

 

 

 

Until we manage to reach other habitable planets then yes, it will be dull - much as a prison cell gets dull a short whule after having stepped into it. You can decorate the walls somehow or find some way to spend your time, but this will only make things better for a little while.

There is no dull, if the expanse is a infinite complexity.

 

Living as it is now is not a prison cell, because our current life spans are so short that we are unable to discover everything before we die. But with immortality, the world becomes much smaller and things that will have been new and wonderful to you as a child become as insignificant as the marks on a prison wall.

 

You still fail to see, if one obtain immortality, this world will become insignificant.

 

 

 

I'm afraid we have no idea what Heaven would be like, if it exists. However, I do not think you should judge Heaven until you've experienced it or seen what it is made of. My mother always said the same thing about trying new foods, bless her soul.

 

Well, it's time to inform you, I hate God, so the idea of Heaven is unappealing to me.

Even if my hate wasn't the influence; if it's a utopia then I'm not interested, i_shot_the_jedi.

[tk102]

Of course, we've barely lifted off this rock, because this society, most of our species is lazy, uninterested and non passionate about interstellar travel.

We're not a lazy species windu6. Interstellar travel isn't something we've just been too lazy to do. C'mon, get real.

 

(paraphrase) Imagination > skepticism

Wisdom involves knowing which to employ.

 

Another thing people in our society should know, there is no science fiction, there is science faction, nothing is impossible... When people start realizing that, then maybe we will make the universe our oyster.

And in the meantime, scientists will actually perform science in the real world and try to improve the quality of life. "Realizing" something is more than just imagination. You actually have to make it real.

 

I think the main point you're trying to make is here:

If you are immortal the only limits is the unknowns of reality.

Of course, one don't instantly attain wisdom, if you live forever then enlightenment will be a forever goal to obtain if our society idea of wisdom is right. If we leave Earth society will prosper, if we play our card right.

Of course, we will stagnate if we still remain here for a thousand more years.

I believe you're saying that if we had immortality, we could eventually travel to other planets and prosper which would be preferable to living on Earth only. I think that's actually a good point. In all likelihood, there would be a good number of immortals who would want to continue seeking the unknown after the Earth becomes too familiar and boring.

[Darth InSidious]

Immortality sounds dreadful to me.

 

For one thing, I'd have to spend the rest of eternity arguing with Achilles >.<

[Totenkopf]

Immortality sounds dreadful to me.

 

For one thing, I'd have to spend the rest of eternity arguing with Achilles >.<

 

 

[i_shot_the_jedi]

Many of us can call what maybe be out there what we want to call it.But I will call it a society; it also can be called a infinite reality of infinite complexity.

 

A society is a grouping of individuals, which is characterized by common interests and may have distinctive culture and institutions. This is not exactly linked to the word I think you're looking for: 'Universe'.

 

Of course, we've barely lifted off this rock, because this society, most of our species is lazy, uninterested and non passionate about interstellar travel. If some in our societal species stop becoming sceptical of the ideas of interstellar travel; stop finding the idea of interstellar travel amusing thought, this rock will finally become insignificant as we start to explore the great expanse of this galaxy and universe.

 

Attaining a 'path to the stars' requires much more than just the defeat of scepticism. It requires billions of dollars, incredible technological advances... and a lot of patience. Star Wars does not happen overnight.

 

Skeptism is a decease of the imagination a shackle to inspiration and a danger to wisdom. The skeptical path is a blind one.

 

Please stop dressing up false statements as wisdom. What you've just said is quite frankly ridiculous. I hope you'll realise this when you study the relationship between the two words I've highlighted. I also hope you realise that you've contradicted your own philosophy quite a few times.

 

Skepticism: questioning the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual; a doubting attitude

 

Another thing people in our society should know, there is no science fiction, there is science faction, nothing is impossible, there is no never happen and there is no, it can't be done ever.

 

When people start realizing that, then maybe we will make the universe our oyster.

 

In some ways, yes I agree. But as this is a discussion on immortality I think the question should be 'when?'

 

If you are immortal the only limits is the unknowns of reality. Of course, one don't instantly attain wisdom, if you live forever enlightenment will be a forever goal to obtain if our society idea of wisdom is right.

 

To be 'immortal', as presented by this thread, does not mean 'godly' or 'omniscient'. Age will not bring you infinite wisdom.

 

If we leave Earth society will prosper, if we play our card right. Of course, we will stagnate if we still remain here for a thousand more years.

 

So where exactly are we supposed to move to and what will it take to get us there?

 

Skeptism !

That's why you fail.

 

I thought we were discussing philosophy and immortality, not issuing ad hominem attacks.

 

You must know, a lot of the things that define our society now, was once dreamy statements and wishful thinking.

 

No, philosophy is an attempt at trying to pin down reality using the human mind; something entirely different from 'dreamy statements', which may have no bearing on reality at all.

 

There is no dull, if the expanse is a infinite complexity.

 

I wonder, then, why the word 'dull' was coined.

 

You still fail to see, if one obtain immortality, this world will become insignificant.

 

Not whilst we're still stuck on it, thinking from an egocentric point of view.

 

Well, it's time to inform you, I hate God, so the idea of Heaven is unappealing to me.

 

Ad hominem, again! I could argue for years, but I will instead ask this:

 

Why?

 

Why has God, a being whom you have never met and may or may not exist and who has an incredible number of entirely contradictory teachings attributed to his (its/hers? - who knows?) name thus making his true nature entirely ambiguous, become the subject of your hate? Feel free to dislike a belief system attributed to God, but do not be so pretentious as to think you can be the judge of something you know nothing about.

 

Even if my hate wasn't the influence; if it's a utopia then I'm not interested, i_shot_the_jedi.

 

I don't think you've even read or attempted to understand my argument, instead making reactionary (and one downright rude!) comments to try and 'beat' me. You should consider adjusting your attitude towards other people.

 

I do not want this to descend into a fight, so I will withdraw from the discussion. I recommend you do the same.

 

 

Comment by Darth333: Agreed! Leave the personal attacks behind. Windu6, you should know better...Also, this is a thread on immortality, not a thread to err..."promote interstellar travel"...

[Mike Windu]

Will we achieve immortality? Probably not. At any rate, I'd much rather obtain invulnerability to life's constant threats and live a full, happy, short life than live for an extended period of time.

 

However, if we were willing to make some compromises in terms of immortality, in that I was invulnerable to bullets and car crashes, I'd be willing to have the assurance that I will live longer.

 

All I'm asking for is that I do great things before I die. Sounds crazy for a 17 year old kid right? Well, kind of a side story, but I had a dream recently that creeped the hell out of me. I've always felt that the way I die is going to be in a car crash (and it's not that long of a shot, considering how many people die in accidents every year). Anyway, I had a dream where I had died and was sort of in a limbo stage, Patrick Swayze/Ghost-esque and I was trying to signal some random person, to contact the living world by grabbing a marker or sharpie of some sort and writing phrases like "Help" and my name, but the stranger never notices. I hear God laughing at me and saying "It' won't help Michael, you're already dead." Then I write 1989-2007 and then I woke up.

 

Now, that might seem like a digression from this discussion but ultimately leads me back to my point in that the only reason (other than being an observer to the world's changes, but hopefully that's what being dead is for) I would want immortality is to make sure that I do what I want to do. I don't want to go before it is my time and I sure as hell hope I don't.

[spark91]

Immortality is probably out of our reach (for now maybe), but if a person actually want it depend on the life that they have lived, it all depend on if a person is able to accept death or be fearfull of dying.