Americans are NOT stupid

[John Galt]

First of all, there are certain functions of security that the government must carry out, because they would be impractical for private corporations to carry out. These include defending the nation from outside attack(on the national level), and protecting citizens from violence and natural disasters(including fires), in a more federalized manner at the national, state, and(mostly) local levels. Most other functions currently carried out by the government could be performed by private corporations or individual citizens.

[TK-8252]

What will keep the strongest/best-armed people from being thugs? At least there is some control over police officers.

 

Well the strongest/best-armed people would be private security, and if they are thugs, then they get fired and probably would get sued, imprisoned, etc.

 

There is very little control over police officers - considering that it's the cop's word over the citizen's in most cases, unless there's video or lots of credible witnesses.

 

I believe there would be a lot more deaths if the “strongest/best-armed” were protecting us.

 

As of now, no one is protecting us. If you think that police really can do anything to protect you, you've fallen victim of our government's propaganda. All they can do is show up after an incident and collect evidence. If they catch the criminal, the person may or may not be punished, and you, as a victim, will recieve nothing to compensate you for injuries or property losses. If your car is stolen for example, and the cops find it, they might keep it as evidence instead of giving it back to you.

 

Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.

[SilentScope001]

mimartin: Uh, while I love to have many people serve in the great US (only 33% of people living in the USA actually voted, the 66% number are the ones that bothered to register, but some people don't even register to vote), let face the facts here.

 

100,000,000 people voted in the last Presidental election.

 

You vote.

 

You get to control 0.000000001% of the popular vote! Weeee! And you wonder why we think that people complain they have no say in the government? Democracy is a great idea, but when you realize that everyone else get to vote as well, you start to feel that you are useless, and the mob is the only thing that matter. (If it turns out your vote happens to be the deciding vote, then an automatic recount is in order, because it is quite obivous that there is a high chance of error...so even then, your vote does not count).

 

Truth is, voting is NOT how you change the government. Getting other people to vote the same way is how you do so. Trying to form PACs, buying out politicans, writing opinon pieces, creating TV ads, THAT'S how we gain influence and power. If you want to reform America to your idea of "perfectness", you cannot rely on democracy, because not only you can vote, but so can your enemies as well, and if your enemies outnumber you, you lose. Simple.

 

(Maybe the reason America does not see our grand ideas as perfect is...because...they may not actually believe in them. Hey, look at the title of the thread: Americans are NOT stupid.)

 

Have to serve my patoritic duty to criticize.

 

TK-8252: I do think the police officers are doing quite a fine job in defending the USA from criminals. I feel safe...at least. But cops can't stop everything, either in Free Market or outside of Free Market.

 

However, thanks to Private Military Contractors, the military is about to be controlled by the Free Market. The bad news is that senators may be less worried about cost-benieft anyalsis of the competiting corporations and more of kickbacks and bribes. Still, worth a shot. And if it does well here, it could be used in the cities as well.

[TK-8252]

TK-8252: I do think the police officers are doing quite a fine job in defending the USA from criminals. I feel safe...at least. But cops can't stop everything, either in Free Market or outside of Free Market.

 

I'm glad you feel safe. A lot of people feel safe, that is, until they get robbed or raped. Then they demand justice, which they might not get.

[Allronix]

I plan on staying put and being a pain in the choobies. I'm mad as hell and sick of my home being run by the religious nuts and corporate thieves. Why give the #$!@#$ the satisfaction of leaving?

 

The Constitution is a fine work of art. That is at least one reason to stay.

[Nancy Allen``]

Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.

 

Why do you think that is? So they can find out who supplied them the drugs, ****ing ****s that push the addiction onto eight year old children, make them take up a life of crime so they are able to feed that habit that destroys them. Not so harmless is it?

 

I'm glad you feel safe. A lot of people feel safe, that is, until they get robbed or raped. Then they demand justice, which they might not get.

 

Don't blame the police, they cannot be everywhere to solve every crime. Blame the courts who are leniant on criminals. You might like to have a look at yourself as well. What part do you play in active crime prevention?

 

I plan on staying put and being a pain in the choobies. I'm mad as hell and sick of my home being run by the religious nuts and corporate thieves. Why give the #$!@#$ the satisfaction of leaving?

 

Maybe because you hate it with every fibre in your body? If you hate it so much why stay and force yourself to witness the things you hate about America?

[Totenkopf]

We can put that fire out for $199.99. Call Fires R Us anytime day or night.

Sorry closed all state and national holidays

 

I just wonder what would happen if there was a slow fire season, would these private companies resort to arson to drum up business.

 

Versus the fire department resorting to arson to ensure it's budget doesn't decrease?

 

OT, I think that JL's point about the grass being greener is spot on. This country may not be great (we're human too, afterall), but you need to figure out what you want vs what you can get no matter where you end up living. If you can't shake you're bad feelings about America, I'd say that perhaps Canada or Scandanavia may be in your future. Just one question: What will you do if wherever you go doesn't pan out? There are only something like 200 countries in the world, and most of them are much worse than here for a whole host of reasons (oppression/violence/bigotry/unsanitary/etc..).

[Jae Onasi]

Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.

 

I'm glad the crime issues are boring by you, then. Around here, the cops are not looking for 'harmless drug users and prostitutes', though they will handle that because of the ties with organized crime. Here in my part of the world which is not too far from Chicago and Milwaukee, they deal primarily with very serious crimes--rape, severe child abuse (the life-threatening version--DCFS handles it otherwise), bank robberies, violent assaults, shootings, murders, organized crime rings, gang issues, and so forth. Milwaukee just had a serious incident where a guy got beaten severely by a gang for trying to defend a woman from getting attacked and likely raped, and they have multiple gang problems right now. In fact in some parts of the city right now, the gangs have more control than the police or citizens do, and they are destroying the ability of regular people to go to work, school, or other places with any kind of safety.

 

About 500 people get murdered in Chicago every year, and Milwaukee's murder rate is around 100 the last few years. I don't think the police around here are just sitting around eating donuts while waiting to bust the next hooker who walks by.

[The Source]

I feel safer in the United States than anywhere else in the world. Even though we have our bad moments, we do have certain freedoms that other countries do not practice. Some countries kill you for drunk driving, or they chop off a hand for stealing. The United States is probally the best country to live in. Since we are fighting an unpopular war in Iraq, I think the world just looks at us awkwardly. There are countries out there that say, "Americans stay out of our way." Once an outsider country gets attacked, "Americans we need your help." If we act upon something that is humanly wrong, we are condemned by every other country in the world. If we take an inactive action towards another country, we are condemned for not doing enough. Yeah, we have our issues. Yeah, we have problems with our gorvernment. However, where on Earth are you going to find the most self-sacrificing bunch of as* ho*es to step in front of a bullet for a stranger? We do it for liberty, peace, freedom, and prosperity for all of mankind.

 

US, Canada, Russia, Europe, and some of Asia are sacrificing their people, so the common good will preveal.

 

Yeah, our government has issues, but our push for freedom for all is unmatched (next to Canada and Europe that is).

[Prime]

I think she meant where the cars and televisions were invented. And who owns the factories that create the clothes, the cars, and the televisions.

Well, of these things I own are made by non-American companies. There are lots of clothing, car, and electronic manufacturers that are not US companies...

 

Like I said, if you don't like America then no one's forcing you to stay. If you hate it that much then why do you live there?

I would say that for many people it is because they do not have the means to go anywhere else. They may be too poor to afford to emmigrate, or are not able to get the required visas and permits in order to take up residence in another country. Most countries have immigration policies that favor certain kinds of individuals (certain professions and the like). It usually isn't very easy to just live in another country.

 

Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.

So you are saying that such activites have no affect on others in society, and that law enforcement on such things should discontinued?

[SilentScope001]

I would say that for many people it is because they do not have the means to go anywhere else. They may be too poor to afford to emmigrate, or are not able to get the required visas and permits in order to take up residence in another country. Most countries have immigration policies that favor certain kinds of individuals (certain professions and the like). It usually isn't very easy to just live in another country.

 

Not to mention that if you get a good job here, it is harder to relocate to another country and try to get a similar paying job.

[TK-8252]

Why do you think that is? So they can find out who supplied them the drugs, ****ing ****s that push the addiction onto eight year old children, make them take up a life of crime so they are able to feed that habit that destroys them. Not so harmless is it?

 

Actually, no one ever really comes up to eight year olds and puts a crack pipe in their mouth and forces them to inhale. That's quite silly to suggest such a thing.

 

Blame the courts who are leniant on criminals.

 

They are leniant on criminals because the jails and prisons are overcrowded with people with victimless crime convictions, like drug possession and such. Let these harmless people live their lives in a free society and the real criminals would be behind bars instead of on the streets.

 

@Jae: I'm glad that police where you live are making an effort towards keeping the streets safe. However, a lot of crime is created by the need for drug money. The reason why drugs are expensive is because they are illegal. If they were legal, they would be much more affordable, because there would be a greater supply available to satisfy the demand. So by the actions of police against drug dealers, they in turn create a legion of criminals.

 

So you are saying that such activites have no affect on others in society, and that law enforcement on such things should discontinued?

 

They do have an affect... but the reason why they do is because they are illegal. If they were legal, then there would be no affect. Drug dealers, prostitutes, and other people involved in "vice" are providing a service that is wanted by people. People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!

[Emperor Devon]

People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!

 

Wow. A world where 12-year olds who don't know any better can sell themselves and then have the cash to buy some of the cheap, affordable drugs that mommy and daddy snort so much of. Then they can get STDs, pregnant, screwed for life and then pass that behavior down to the kids they'll have next year, go free market!!!

 

Like I said, if you don't like America then no one's forcing you to stay. If you hate it that much then why do you live there?

 

If it weren't for the language barrier, financial difficulties and fact I wouldn't know anyone there I'd love to move to Norway.

[Jae Onasi]

Actually, no one ever really comes up to eight year olds and puts a crack pipe in their mouth and forces them to inhale. That's quite silly to suggest such a thing.

My sister-in-law does foster care and has abused kids come through her home, and I see kids in my office who are foster kids because we take Medicaid. Some parents, who should never have had kid because they themselves are addicted to drugs and alcohol, have actually given their very young children hits off their joints to mellow the kids out, and given them alcohol to make them sleep. It happens far more often than anyone of us want to see. If someone told me that a 'parent' had put a crack pipe in the mouth of an 8 year old and forced them to inhale, I would not be surprised in the least after what I've seen and what I've heard from my sister-in-law.

 

A thief in my town had been hitting a gas station every night and the cops finally found out from an informant what gas station he would hit that night, so they set up a sting and caught him. In the back seat of his car was his 9 month old daughter, asleep because he'd put alcohol in her bottle to make sure she slept. She had to be taken to the hospital for observation because her blood alcohol level was that high.

 

It is terrible that this happens, but it's _happening_, and I'm honestly sorry that I'm the one who has to introduce you to just how horrible people can be to their own children.

 

They do have an affect... but the reason why they do is because they are illegal. If they were legal, then there would be no affect. Drug dealers, prostitutes, and other people involved in "vice" are providing a service that is wanted by people. People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!

Let's use alcohol as an example, then, since it's a legal 'drug'. Crime will not go away because you legalize prostitution or drug use.

 

In the case of alcohol use and abuse, you have vehicular homicide and assault from drunk driving. When I worked at Children's hospital I saw the results first hand in the ICU--2 Amish girls had survived a car-vs.-buggy accident. The guy was drunk and was driving 65 in a 35 zone that was in a well-known Amish community. The girls' 2 other siblings, father, and 5-month-pregnant mother died at the scene from the impact. Both girls had massive injuries, one we thought would make it, and the other we weren't sure, but if she did she had such massive head trauma she was never going to be 'normal' again. Since alcohol is legal, is this what you mean by 'it's legal so there's no effect'? I beg to differ. One man drinking and driving completely destroyed a family. Drug abusers, legal or not, won't quit driving, and we will see higher amounts of vehicular assault and homicide due to drug abuse if it's legalized.

 

There are alcohol-related rapes, domestic abuse, and child abuse. When people are under the influence, they don't act rationally or do rational things. It's even worse with certain drugs--someone on ice or PCP can become extremely violent, and because they don't feel pain normally, they are extremely difficult to bring under control. They'll break bones while fighting and will continue fighting because they don't feel the fractures.

 

There are people committing theft to buy alcohol because they've lost their jobs due to their alcoholism and now can't afford it. People with end-stage liver disease from alcohol abuse are on disability and need extremely expensive medical care on top of it, which is a big drain on gov't resources. Those who abuse drugs don't have the mental capacity when they're stoned to take care of themselves or avoid risky behaviors, so we'll see more drug addicts in bad health, which will put further strain on gov't resources. In Holland (or Denmark--can't remember which), they've had to create 'nursing homes for drug addicts' because these people can't take care of themselves anymore due to the brain damage from drug abuse, which is legal over there. Not only are these people not contributing positively to society, they're now a drain, and they're fairly young and are going to live a long time on that country's social system. There's no positive to legalizing drugs, and plenty of negatives.

 

One reason prostitution is illegal (aside from the ethical issues of treatment of women and some men) is because prostitutes are great disease vectors, especially STDs. Since most don't use condoms (because their clients don't like the feel ), that's still the case even in our 'modern age'. Many prostitutes are doing that job because they are addicted to drugs and it's the only 'job' they can hold down due to their addiction. Since they're drug abusers, they do not take care of themselves, and many are HIV+ and carry other STDs. People are contagious before they ever have disease symptoms, be that syphilis, chlamydia, herpes, HIV, or others. One prostitute can infect a number of people a night depending on client numbers/activities, and those people go on to infect others, and before you know it you have an epidemic on your hands. If you legalize this, you're contributing to a public health problem, because there's no way to regulate the sex industry to prevent disease spread except for stopping it completely.

[Corinthian]

I never thought I'd agree with Emperor Devon. Well, except for the Norway part. TK, what do you really want? A Free Market, or total anarchy? Because it sounds to me like you're more advocating the latter.

[Nancy Allen``]

Actually, no one ever really comes up to eight year olds and puts a crack pipe in their mouth and forces them to inhale. That's quite silly to suggest such a thing.

 

Actually they do pressure them to try and buy drugs. I can provide evidence if I must.

 

If it weren't for the language barrier, financial difficulties and fact I wouldn't know anyone there I'd love to move to Norway.

 

Well if that's the only thing stopping you save up, learn the language and go for it. I wouldn't mind moving myself actually.

[Emperor Devon]

Well if that's the only thing stopping you save up, learn the language and go for it. I wouldn't mind moving myself actually.

 

Um, for the reasons I just listed it's not something that can simply be saved up and gone for. Moving just a few states can cost thousands of dollars, (moving across an ocean - even more) there's the cost involved in being taught the language, the time it would take to learn it, the time to get settled down in Norway, the fact it would completely isolate one from friends and family, and let's not even get into the business of getting a visa and actually being allowed to move... (That and the fact I am nowhere nearly wealthy enough to do all that)

 

My point: People can't simply leave America if they don't like the way it's being run as you've been implying they can.

[Pho3nix]

I think you would do quite well in Norway just by speaking English. At least if you're planning to move to Oslo or Bergen.

[Prime]

They do have an affect... but the reason why they do is because they are illegal. If they were legal, then there would be no affect. Drug dealers, prostitutes, and other people involved in "vice" are providing a service that is wanted by people. People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!

So dealers should be free to try and sell crack and meth to my little girl? What if she gets addicted and OD's? Or what of those people who get robbed by a crackhead looking to get money for their next fix? How can you say there is no effect?

[TK-8252]

Actually they do pressure them to try and buy drugs. I can provide evidence if I must.

 

I'm sure that there have been instances of such an event, but does every crack dealer on the corner see eight-year-olds as potential customers? Of course not. Just because someone has chosen to sell crack to make money doesn't turn them into monsters. Demonizing drug dealers as child abusers basically isn't fair. Drug dealers aren't on the corner sticking crack pipes into kids' mouths. If they are, then I'd like to know where the kid's parent is if they let their kid run wild in the streets.

 

So dealers should be free to try and sell crack and meth to my little girl? What if she gets addicted and OD's? Or what of those people who get robbed by a crackhead looking to get money for their next fix? How can you say there is no effect?

 

No they shouldn't be free to sell to kids. Just like how a kid can't go into a store and buy cigarettes or alcohol. The reason why crackheads have to rob to get money is because the drugs are expensive - and it's expensive because it's illegal. Legalize and the price drops, reducing crime rates dramatically.

[Nancy Allen``]

Try outside the school, even in the school where older kids have drugs. The local park. The shops. To say just wrap people up in cotton wool is to ignore the issue over pieces of **** who push drugs.

[Jae Onasi]

I'm sure that there have been instances of such an event, but does every crack dealer on the corner see eight-year-olds as potential customers?

In a free market, everyone's a potential customer.

 

The reason why crackheads have to rob to get money is because the drugs are expensive - and it's expensive because it's illegal. Legalize and the price drops, reducing crime rates dramatically.

 

Alcohol is legal. It hasn't made crime rates go down at all since Prohibition ended. People rob to get money for their alcohol, too. People will still rob to get their drugs, no matter what the price is, because they're so stoned they can't keep a job to make _any_ money to buy them.

[Emperor Devon]

No they shouldn't be free to sell to kids. Just like how a kid can't go into a store and buy cigarettes or alcohol.

 

A law, which, I might add, is poorly enforced. Honestly, how rare is it to see teens who've gotten their hands on cigarettes/alcohol? They use both all the time and in half the parties they throw, even though it's totally illegal...

[Allronix]

Maybe because you hate it with every fibre in your body? If you hate it so much why stay and force yourself to witness the things you hate about America?

 

Because it's my home, damn it. If your only definition of "loving America" is to blindly salute a flag, then I'd call it missing the point. I'm a firm believer in Sinclair Lewis's warning that "when facisim comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." I'm also no optimist, especially when it comes to following the money.

 

I'm sick of the Enron and the 700 Club crowd calling the shots. I'm tired of seeing people die from lack of health care, tired of seeing 5% of the population with 95% of the wealth, and REALLY sick of war profitering, abuses of power, and religion-based laws. In my book, they insult and violate the "Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" outlined as fundamental rights. I'm furious because I care about the people here and the things we're supposed to stand for.

 

I'm angry with the things Source describes...but the reason I don't tend to be around Kavar's Corner much is because I'd rather do something. I've put Congress's "public comments" number on speed dial. I go to the rallies and marches. I spent July 4th with a voter reform group reading the Constitution and Declaration in front of the Federal Building. I call the radio stations, the TV stations, and write the newspaper. And I've only missed one election since signing up to vote on my 18th birthday. (Was 60 miles from the polling place). It may do as much good as spitting into the ocean, but I won't sit on my butt, either.

 

We've come a long way. When this nation was founded, women were chattel, black folks were property, the natives were "savages," and the poor couldn't vote, either. We have remedied these, but we're dealing with a LOT of fallout and fallacies. Just because we aren't forced to wear burquas and operate under sharia law doesn't mean that we don't have undue influence of religion in the public square. Just because Jim Crow's gone doesn't mean we have destroyed institutiuonal racism. As good as we are, we can always do better. We can always learn...and the more we self-congratulate, the further behind we get in every area from infant mortality to schooling, to standard of living, to elder care.

 

I still believe there's something here worth fighting for here, and while I believe we have a hell of a long road to travel before we live up to our ideals, I still like the ideals. I may not "love America" the way the current definition of patriotism wants it, but it does not mean my home's not worth it.

 

I love my country, therefore I use my First Amendment right to bitch loudly and proudly.

[John Galt]

Think of the drug situation this way: since drugs aren't forced underground, they could be distributed from a brick and mortar establishment, and drugs could be mixed and purified to scientific standards, therefore less dangerous to the users due to reductions of impurities. If domestic production was legal, it would reduce drug smuggling from latin america significantly, if not eliminating it entirely. Under a system like that instead of pushers and dealers we'd have advertisments and store owners, much like the shift from speakeasies and bootleggers back to breweries and bars/liquor stores after the repeal of prohibition.

 

Basically legalizing drugs would "civilize" them, and possibly return them to a status somwhat reminiscent of that they held in the late 19th/early 20th century. Legalizing drugs would simply give the government an opportunity to tax and regulate an activity that occurs despite a disastrous 30-year "war on drugs."

 

I'm not pushing for anarchy in any way, shape, form, or fashion here. I advocate laissez-faire capitalism.