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Jolee vs. Kreia, Who Can Kill The Other Faster?


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Jolee would win. Kreia is missing a hand, for one thing. It would reduce the amount of strength she's able to get behind each saber blow, so in a straight up saber fight, she would lose handily. In a force fight, it'd probably be a tie. Kreia is strong with the Force, but she was still defeated by both Sion and Nihilus, making her obviously weaker than both of those, and I'd say Jolee was capable enough to defeat Darth Sion except for his ridiculous "Mind over my chopped up body" ability. In a mixed fight, Jolee would win.

 

Keep in mind that while Kreia is powerful, Jolee is no pushover, the Shadowlands of Kashyyyk is one of the deadliest places in the Galaxy. Kreia's only really potent ability is her lies and deceit, so while in the long run, Kreia might be able to fool Jolee and get him into a trap, in a straight-up brawl, she would most likely be defeated. Especially since Jolee is a lot higher level than her. At the end of KotoR, he's at about Level 20, while Kreia is level one at the start of KotoR 2, and Jolee has five years to hone his skills even further

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Kreia is missing a hand, for one thing. It would reduce the amount of strength she's able to get behind each saber blow, so in a straight up saber fight, she would lose handily

And yet in the game you can fight with a saber in each hand and still kick butt despite not having the strength of 2 hands. Not to mention the fact that Dooku fights one-handed and is one of the best duelists. Plus, Kreia relies mostly on her force powers, which are incredibly powerful.

In a force fight, it'd probably be a tie.

Really??? Kreia drained 3 jedi masters to death at once. Jolee might be at the level of those masters individualy, but he is not as powerful as them combined. These are the few jedi that survived the purge so they are powerful for their time. She can TK 3 sabers to fight an opponent. What has Jolee done to even come close to that? All I can remember is him beating some shadowlands creatures. The evidence points to Jolee not even having a chance.

I like Jolee a lot and would think he would be able to defeat Kreia.

Provide some evidence please so that i will not think you say this simply because you like jolee more.

 

Kreia's only really potent ability is her lies and deceit

So being able to drain 3 jedi masters and TK 3 lightsabers to fight for her are useless abilities? Not to mention force storm, terror, ect.

Especially since Jolee is a lot higher level than her. At the end of KotoR, he's at about Level 20, while Kreia is level one at the start of KotoR 2,

Actually, game stats are not canon, but if you want to compare them you will find that Kreia has incredible stats, about 2 times as much health as the exile, and godlike saves, unless you seriously think Jolee is above the Exile. And Kreia could potentialy get to level 50.

and Jolee has five years to hone his skills even further

Ironically, Dooku had about 40 years more of experience then Anakin, yet Anakin beat him.

Yoda had like 700 years of experience over Sidious, yet Sidious defeated/stalemated Yoda.

Vader had like 20 years more experience than Luke, yet Luke beat him.

Plus a ton of other examples.

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Yes, Dooku lost to Anakin. Primarily because Dooku was old and practiced a style that was ineffective against powerful blows.

 

Jolee Bindo was not as weak as those masters. Are you kidding me? He carved through Sith like a plasma torch through butter. If the average Jedi Master was as strong as Jolee Bindo, the Jedi Civil War wouldn't have been such a Pyrrhic Victory for the Old Republic. Zez-Kai-Ell and Kavar are completely untested Jedi, we have no idea how powerful they were - saber skills and even Force Abilities do not really gauge your progress to Council. Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, yet he never sat on the Council. Obi-Wan Kenobi was nearly passed up as a Padawan. Anakin Skywalker was denied Masterhood. It has a lot more to do with wisdom than it does with raw power.

 

Kreia wasn't very powerful, really. She had a lot of power at the end because she was in the Trayus Core, the seat of her power. You know that the Witch is always stronger in her Fortress. You'll remember that Sion defeated her pretty handily in a duel, Sion and Nihilus beat the crap out of her in the Trayus Core and stripped her power from her.

 

Besides, Yoda wasn't defeated by a lightsaber, he was defeated by Force Lightning. Luke defeated Vader by use of Force Rage, plus he took Vader by surprise. Also, Vader didn't really want to kill Luke, while Luke wanted nothing at that point but to carve Vader into mynock-feed.

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Traya quite easily takes this.

 

As mentioned, she was able to use the force to tool three powerful Jedi Masters at once, including Vrook who was noted as being one of the most powerful Jedi Masters of his age, and Kavar who was considered even more powerful, had seen more war than any Jedi at the time, was the leader of the warriors of the Jedi Order (Jedi guardians), was able to survive an encounter with Malak and possessed the power to put about 12 armed soldiers surrounding him into a stasis field immediately all at once. And Traya, quite effortlessly, walks right on up to both of them [plus Zez-Kai Ell, who I'd imagine is immensely powerful too given how he had been able to survive Sion and Nihilus' Shadow War on the Jedi] and completely dominates them with her force powers, effortlessly. She's also able to do the same to 10 sith assassins, all at once as well.

 

She's displayed healing ability to the point where she can actually bring people back from the dead (Hanharr), which is completely unprecedented, and an ability unique to her (even Cade Skywalker, someone who possessed a talent for healing like no other than even Luke Skywalker had seen, was only able to bring someone back from the edge of death).

 

She's able to quite simply hide her presence to such a great degree that she can stand right in front of Sith Lords and Jedi Masters and remain completely undetected.

 

As Kreia, she was the Keeper of Jedi Archives, and as Darth Traya, spent years studying on Malachor, so her knowledge base would quite clearly be huge, both in the lightside and darkside.

 

Her precognition ability was also so incredible that she could see thousands of years into the future, and pinpoint and recall specific events with extreme detail, something that was beyond even Darth Sidious, who wasn't outright able to see into the future to such a degree, but a bunch of potential futures, and he'd then manipulate events that would bring about the future he most desired.

 

Bindo honestly doesn't even come close.

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Yes, Dooku lost to Anakin. Primarily because Dooku was old and practiced a style that was ineffective against powerful blows.
Besides, Yoda wasn't defeated by a lightsaber, he was defeated by Force Lightning. Luke defeated Vader by use of Force Rage, plus he took Vader by surprise. Also, Vader didn't really want to kill Luke, while Luke wanted nothing at that point but to carve Vader into mynock-feed.

You realize that Kreia was older than Jolee, was a Jedi Master for many years, and a Sith Lord for many years, she has for more experience than Jolee especially since she studied both aspects of the force.

Jolee Bindo was not as weak as those masters

Your opinion.

He carved through Sith like a plasma torch through butter.

Sith troopers, yes. Sith lords, no. Please let me know when he ever beat any sith lords.

Zez-Kai-Ell and Kavar are completely untested Jedi, we have no idea how powerful they were - saber skills and even Force Abilities do not really gauge your progress to Council.

Kavar put a bunch of soldiers into stasis at once, where have we seen Jolee do that? Sure, being one of the few survivors of the purge that killed almost all of the rest of the jedi means nothing. :rolleyes:

Kreia wasn't very powerful, really

Did you read what I said? Kreia can drain 3 of the more powerful masters of her time, TK 3 lightsabers, drain a bunch of sith assasins.

Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most powerful Jedi of his time

:rolleyes:

Obi-Wan Kenobi was nearly passed up as a Padawan

And yet became a Master.

Anakin Skywalker was denied Masterhood.

But probably would have become a master eventually if he had not turned.

It has a lot more to do with wisdom than it does with raw power.

You are saying Jolee is not wise?

She had a lot of power at the end because she was in the Trayus Core, the seat of her power. You know that the Witch is always stronger in her Fortress

Just because she is good on Malacor does not mean she sucks everywhere else. You do recall she drained 3 of the more powerful masters of her day in the jedi enclave on dantooine, the seat of the jedi's power.

 

You'll remember that Sion defeated her pretty handily in a duel

She did not even have her lightsaber and she lost to a near immortal sith lord!!! Wow, that is really bad. :rolleyes:

Sion and Nihilus beat the crap out of her in the Trayus Core and stripped her power from her.

She was double teamed by someone who is immortal on Malacor and someone who killed an entire world by speaking. And she lost. Shocking.:rolleyes:

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Actually, that is pretty bad. {Snip} Please use the 'Report a Post' Button if something is annoying you. Thanks. -RH

 

My point is that Kreia is, despite your impressions, not unstoppable. Also, she didn't just lose, she nearly died. He cut her hand off. It's a wonder she got away. Besides, what the hell does a lightsaber matter when you're using a vibroblade enforced with cortosis? Oh my lord, she had slightly more trouble cutting through stuff like steel. Flesh still parts pretty easily.

 

As for Sith, I'm referring to the massive numbers of Dark Jedi that assailed Revan, especially in the Star Forge Temple. Jolee fought those and defeated them. Also, Jolee had the power of ingenuity, he'd managed to survive in one of the deadliest places in the Galaxy for a couple decades, alone, with nothing but his clothes, a lightsaber, and The Force. Not exactly an arsenal.

 

Your primary arguments are things she did at a place of massive amounts of Dark Force Energy, it's like fighting the Emperor on Byss.

 

Also, we don't know how Kreia drained those Jedi. I believe she used the Exile, as a hole in the Force, and with the Force Bonds he had made with the three Jedi, drew their Force Energy into that hole. Now, I may be wrong about that, but until you know what she did, you can't really use that as an example of her power. It seems pretty unlikely that she was capable of tearing the Force from three Jedi Masters against their will without any significant preparation. If she was that powerful, why didn't she, say, stop Sion from slicing her hand off? Why did she lose power in the first place, when she could have just stripped Nihilus and Sion from the Force? It doesn't fit.

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I'm amazed at the different reactions and the many Kreia and Jolee fans. I bet they both fight at the retirement home and at Bingo night :p

 

As for the Sion thing, she could have just make herself appear weak so the Sith don't take her seriously, she really didn't mind the loss of her hand

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There's pretty much no contest to this. Kreia defeated three Jedi Masters who were on the High Council no less all at once. Since there's no evidence present in either game Jolee is powerful enough to do the same, (heck, all we know for certain about how strong a Force-user he is is that he was able to defeat his wife) any theories that he could can be regarded as fanon.

 

On Kreia's hand, that was necessary loss. She chose to have it get chopped off, because then she could prove to the exile that their bond existed and she couldn't just be spaced once they left Peragus, which would ensure her scheme could proceed as normal. In her mind that was much more important than having an extra hand. It's stated by Sion numerous times on Malachor that she's stronger than he is anyway.

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My point is that Kreia is, despite your impressions, not unstoppable

Yes, but Jolee has done nothing to show he is near the caliber of Kreia.

Besides, what the hell does a lightsaber matter when you're using a vibroblade enforced with cortosis? Oh my lord, she had slightly more trouble cutting through stuff like steel. Flesh still parts pretty easily.

But bones don't. Plus most flesh cannot be completly healed with the force almost instantly (like Sion).

As for Sith, I'm referring to the massive numbers of Dark Jedi that assailed Revan, especially in the Star Forge Temple. Jolee fought those and defeated them. Also, Jolee had the power of ingenuity, he'd managed to survive in one of the deadliest places in the Galaxy for a couple decades, alone, with nothing but his clothes, a lightsaber, and The Force. Not exactly an arsenal.

Jolee was fighting with Revan (extremly powerful fighter) and probably Juhani against dark jedi, nothing compared to a sith lord. The beasts of the shadowlands are nothing compared to sith lords or jedi masters.

Your primary arguments are things she did at a place of massive amounts of Dark Force Energy, it's like fighting the Emperor on Byss.

And yet she drained 3 jedi masters in the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine, the center of Jedi power.

Also, we don't know how Kreia drained those Jedi

It sure looked like it.

I believe she used the Exile, as a hole in the Force, and with the Force Bonds he had made with the three Jedi, drew their Force Energy into that hole.

Exile made force bonds with the jedi masters? Why did the energy from the drain go from the jedi to Kreia if she was drawing there energy into the exile? I'm sorry, I just don't get your arguement.

If she was that powerful, why didn't she, say, stop Sion from slicing her hand off

She probably wanted to show the bond with the exile so that he/she would keep her with him/her.

Why did she lose power in the first place, when she could have just stripped Nihilus and Sion from the Force?

Nihilus and Sion seemed much more powerful than the 3 jedi masters, and there are "some techniques against which there is no defense".

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Provide some evidence please so that i will not think you say this simply because you like jolee more.

 

Alright, Jolee could absolutely kick butt in KOTOR 1. Kreia would have a sort of disadvantage with her hand missing. Jolee has much more experience than Kreia,

for he fought in the war against Exar Kun and survived to tell about it. He seems

to hate people kind of like Kreia so that would drive his forces as well. And with his persuasive powers he could probably prevent the battle from happening anyway. I agree Kreia is powerful, but Jolee is more powerful.

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The draining of the Jedi Masters has no quantifiable evidence. We don't know how she did it, and you cannot refute my suggestion that it had something to do with the Exile. Therefore, it cannot be used to show her power.

 

As for the rest, well, Jolee has the advantage of more experience, he was involved in about a half dozen different wars. Exar Kun, most likely Mandalorian, Jedi Civil War, Dimian...there were more. I mean, aside from her ridiculous abilities as Darth Traya, she's not a very powerful character, and I consider most of those abilities to be from the Trayus Core. It's only logical. So she's, say, level 20 outside of the Core, and level 50 inside the Core, whereas Jolee is Level 20 five years before this, and has probably gained a few levels in the past five years.

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And Kreia is just an old, lying bitch.

 

One which can plot device kill three deluded Jedi Masters instantly, boss (what passes for) a Sith Lord around, and manipulate events to proceed in her favor (e.g. getting Nihilus annihilated). :)

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The draining of the Jedi Masters has no quantifiable evidence. We don't know how she did it, and you cannot refute my suggestion that it had something to do with the Exile. Therefore, it cannot be used to show her power.

 

Not particularly. There happens to be no quantifiable evidence in the game whatsoever to support your idea Kreia drew the Masters into that hole, so it can be dismissed as speculation. :)

 

What does matter? She did it and Jolee didn't.

 

Exar Kun, most likely Mandalorian,

 

No, Jolee crash-landed on Kashyyk sometime after the Great Sith War and stayed there ever since.

 

Jedi Civil War, Dimian...there were more.

 

Really, you could say the same thing for Kreia. There's the inevitable fights every Jedi gets to on their missions, her probable association in the Great Sith War, her experience in the Mandalorian Wars, her travels with the Exile, her tenure as Dark Lord of the Sith... And even if Jolee does have the edge on her experience she obviously outmatches him in skill.

 

I mean, aside from her ridiculous abilities as Darth Traya, she's not a very powerful character, and I consider most of those abilities to be from the Trayus Core. It's only logical.

 

Evidence...?

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She never did any of that anywhere else. She never did the Force Drain or her incredible abilities in the Trayus Core, despite how it would have made things so much easier for her. Furthermore, do you think she LET the Exile kill her rather than just doing the Force Kill thing she did to the Masters?

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She could not drain the Exile like the Jedi Masters because he/she was already hollow in the Force.

 

Furthermore, do you think she LET the Exile kill her rather than just doing the Force Kill thing she did to the Masters?

 

Yeah, as the last test for the Exile.

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Jolee..... he is better than Kreia

How so? I never saw Jolee draining 3 jedi masters. All Jolee has done is fought some minor force users in the Rakatan temple, along with Juhani and Revan, an extremly powerful force user. Kreia alone drained a bunch of sith assasins. There is no proof for that statement.

atleast has still both hands

Dooku fought 1 handed and he was still one of the best duelists

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