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Darth Avlectus
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But that is the point of this mental excersize. Think of it this way. The Jedi comitted GENOCIDE!!! The very thing we despise Hitler for. They went on a CRUSADE to destroy an entire religious sect that they disagreed with. I mean it would be like the Christians going out of their way to destroy Muslims, even if it was in response to Muslims invading Europe... er... wait... That did happen...

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Keep in mind that I'm only offering up my explanation as to why you cannot simply state that they are evil because you hear about the most evil acts. A good example is claiming that all Muslims are evil because of the actions of a few extremists. Evil is only evil if you believe it to be evil. You started it with the they are evil because they perform certain acts. I'm explaining that the acts are only evil from a perspective. I was showing how taken from a different perspective the actions of the suposed "good" jedi are just as evil.

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Ahem, whatever beef with religion aside, why do you think the Jedi sought to wipe out the Sith? The same reason that Revan led the Republic against the Mandalorians?
They Jedi sought to destroy the Sith because the Jedi were dedicated to keeping the Force balanced, i.e. in it's natural state. The Sith unbalance the Force by corrupting it by using the dark side (which is evil in the SW universe) and so are in direct conflict with the Jedi. The Sith also have another unfortunate characteristic of trying to gain more power at the expense of others, which is in direct conflict with the Jedi's oath to defend the Republic. The Jedi supported the Republic because they viewed it as the best way to ensure the survival of galactic civilization.
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I thought I already said this, there is an ABSOLUTE STANDARD OF MORALITY WHEREBY EVERY ACTION IS MEASURED. Tommycat, I don't suggest that one should nessescarily assume that just because someone holds a certain veiw of the world that others profess that they are evil just because of denomination. I don't agree with some of the doctrines of Catholism, but I do not consider Cathlics evil. Cathlics, so long as they retain the essential doctrines concirning GOD, the Holy Bible, the Trinity, the imputed sin of Adam, and the imputed rightiousness of Jesus the King, they should still be Christians.

 

Indeed, every man and woman should be regarded (and ultimatly punished or rewarded) according to their deeds, not those of the groups they claim to espouse. The Sith on the whole, have been megolmaniacs of the tenth degree. As I said, all have tried (with vairrying, and futile attempts) to become a god, to impose their rule over everything and to meet their desires above and beyond those of every other being.

 

I beleive in ultimate (meaning both 'to the final limits' and 'the absolute end') truth, Jesus. The case I try to make is that Star Wars operates under no absolute laws since it is somehow supposed to be an existance where no true gods exist to define any standards of right and wrong. As I mentioned before, people in such an existance ought to live as headonists since, save for Jedi or other Force weilders, there's nothing after death, life is jejune and senseless. In light of this, the Sith would actually be opperating under apropriate "morality", that is, survival of the fittest. :blast5:

 

 

 

Speaking of genocide and the Jedi and Sith, let me point out a few things for the heck of it.

 

Exar Kun, reigning Sith Lord: Anihilated the entire Massassi species to preserve his own life.

 

Darth Nihlius, besides Katarr (by the way the Miraluka homeworld remained intact and populated, Katarr was a colony) killed at least one more world and intended to kill Telos 4.

 

Palpatine, (probably the most anti-alien in SW history) anihilated the Caamasi for the most part, put a large number of Wookies into slavery, destroyed the Ferreo species via biological warfare, and, more likly than not, approved Tarkin's choice to destroy Alderan.

You ask me, the Sith have a better track record of genocide than the Jedi, all I can think of the Jedi doing, genocide wise is the destruction of most Mandalorians in the days of Dooku of Serenno.

 

-Bearer of the Krijinia.

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You ask me, the Sith have a better track record of genocide than the Jedi, all I can think of the Jedi doing, genocide wise is the destruction of most Mandalorians in the days of Dooku of Serenno.

 

-Bearer of the Krijinia.

 

to be technically correct, the Jedi have also committed the repeated genocide of the Sith. Who, while a self-destructive belief system in and of themselves, stand a pretty good chance of survival when the Jedi aren't involved.

 

Yoda sums it up best when he says "Destroy the Sith, we must."

 

It doesn't really matter to the Jedi if all the Sith are bad, or the fact that most Sith are simply jerks who operate under an evil leader. The Jedi believe, pure and simple, in the absolute annihilation of the Sith. That's not to say the Sith don't think the same thing. But you get my point.

 

EDIT: On a personal note, I don't see the Sith or their belief system as inherently evil. Their actions however, generally tend to be so because that is the general outcome of people with great power and little self-control. While a variety of their extenuating beliefs do promote a long list of generally-regarded-as-evil deeds, but their core beliefs that passion is a greater driving force in using and becoming powerful in the Force I don't see as evil or bad.

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With great power comes great responsibility- Ben Parker

 

I don't know if it could be summed up any better than that. The problem I see with the Jedi trying to eliminate the Sith is that imbalance would occur. Going on the principles of yin and yang, you need both. Sun and rain, so different yet only by working together they create harmony and life. It goes to the belief that there is a direct opposite of everything in nature. You have good but you need evil to balance it out. Yeah evil is a bad thing but without it there is nothing to fight for if you catch my drift. The whole thing on the Jedi being just as bad as the Sith is right in that both sides create the genocide or whatever yet both sides justify it based upon their own worldview. It was the same with the English settlers. They thought ther Indians were savages and vice versa. Point of view I would say is a main driving force in this. Both sides have the same set of facts but they make different interpretations and it is usually based upon the belief that they were taught.

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The Sith are evil. No doubt about that. I think it's sort of a copout - Oh, I fall to the Dark Side, now I've got to slaughter children, eat babies, rape dogs, and go on rampages. However, every Sith Lord depicted has been about as mentally stable as the average Middle-Eastern country, only with really big ships to back him up.

 

The real question isn't "Are the Sith Evil" it's "Are the Jedi all that good?" The Jedi are fools. If the Council had gone to war, Revan and Malak would never have fallen, the Mandalorians would have still been crushed, and the Jedi Civil War never would have taken place. Their reliance on visions instead of doing what is right is their undoing. Then they blow up the Ubese, butcher the Mandalorians, so on and so forth, until they finally are so idiotic that they get slaughtered by their own armies.

 

Jedi = Bad Idea. Too much power resting in the hands of one individual. The Sith are even worse, of course, but the galaxy would be a lot better off if all Force-Sensitives had Ysalamiri implanted.

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The problem with the Jedi, or more the Jedi Master's, is that they believe that by being given this high rank, they've achieved a greater sense of closeness to the Force, and so then they eventually get ensnared and lose themselves to the Force. Which then rely on nothing but the Force and nothing else, saying that, "If the Force wills it, that is how it shall be." And that's where the Sith get the three-pointer, because they don't rely on the Force to decide, they make things happen. It's like two guys at a bar who are infatuated with a girl they see. One hopes that she'll see him and come over and talk, but the other goes in and doesn't wait for her. Who's most likely to get something, a word, anything, out of her? The guy who hopes, or the guy who doesn't.

 

Now where the Sith falter is relying on pure power isn't always the case, and they go in sometimes die, where the Jedi wait, then act.

 

But this debate on who's better could go on as long as the Sunni and Shiite war.

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Trying to steer away from real world conflicts, given their nature would you rather live under Sith rule?

 

Well, the Jedi don't exactly "rule"...so, that's a bit of a lopsided comparison. If I would perfer to be under the clunky, artistocratic, constantly troubled republic, vs the effecient, power hungry war-hawk fascist Sith....well, I suppose I'd have to go for the Republic.

 

But in all honesty the Republic could learn some from the Sith in terms of actually getting things done....like NOT listening to the Jedi council for a start.

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I don't deny that there are evil deeds done by Sith. In reality I would tend to agree that the Sith are evil(according to MY beliefs of what good and evil are), but I also believe that you should question your beliefs of good and evil. You cannot deny that the Sith know how to get things done and in some cases do so in a very appropriate manner. Jedi would let it get caught up in endless debate, while the planets get slaughtered by Mandalorians. Revan in turning away from the council and the jedi, and forming an army of those who turned away from the council prevented the deaths of countless worlds. The Jedi would have let it go to committee... Under Sith rule you were pretty safe so long as you weren't a jedi(and did your job right). Granted they had a lot of collateral damage, but... they got the job done.

 

Do you consider it evil to drink alchohol? Some cultures do. Do you believe it is evil to kill only female babies? Some cultures find it acceptable. Is it evil to kill a mass murderer? Some say it is. Is it evil to kill animals, even for food? Some people find that is even evil. Evil is VERY much a subjective thing. Some of you might even consider accepted and legal business practices evil.

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  • 1 month later...

One of the things about the morality issue here, the one dealing with the fact that there is no god in the SW universe, therefore no absolute morality, could be thought of as false.

 

If one reads the Neanderthal Paralax by Robert J. Sawyer (3 books, Hominids, Humans, and Hybrids), The neanderthals have a different morality system, based on the fact that they do not believe in god or religeon. There is no afterlife for them, thus, no fear of burning in h-e-double hockeystick. Rather, they believe you are judged in life, and there is no way to repent after you die. Thus, you live the best way you can with others, doing good to others as you would have them do to you. If everyone works together and is being "exelent to each other", to quote a movie we all know and love, everyone benefits and the quality of life is better for all.

 

I think that is the morality base for the SW universe, and what the jedi subscribe to in the extreme. The sith, on the other hand, believe that through one individual controling absolutely, society will be stable and the average citizen of the chosen class or race has nothing to worry about.

 

Really, that is true. In the Empire, if you were human, joe-schmoe, you would live a long, productive life, and maybe even be happy. You had a home, food to eat, and a job to provide income, thus all the little consumer products you wanted. If you were a non-human sentient, though, boy did it suck to be you.

 

The sith are evil, by the commonly accepted, current, real-world moralities of earth. They murder, enslave, butcher populations, force their absolute will on everyone, and oppress anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest. They are also considdered evil in the star wars universe by the majority of sentients because of those very reasons.

 

But that's just how I see it.

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The Sith are not naturally inclined towards evil. The Sith way is the way of peace.

 

Consider Darth Vectivus (I believe that was his name). Ever heard of him? No? That's because he wasn't a power-hungry egomaniac out for power over the galaxy or trying to wipe out the Jedi. He did no evil. He just existed, learned. Died of old age, surrounded by family and friends.

 

(That is all very well explained in the book "Betrayal", book #1 in the Legacy of the Force series)

 

That is why the Sith should rule. Palpatine was simply power-hunrgy, and that was his entire problem. Anakin Skywalker was afraid of losing his one true love, Padme, and that is what brought him down. The Sith view love as something to embrace - and be able to sacrifice. Anakin completely and utterly failed to learn this lesson, and he paid the price for it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Jedi, but the Sith seem to have the right idea.

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The Sith are not naturally inclined towards evil. The Sith way is the way of peace.

Code of The Sith

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

 

>_< Sorry, had to call you on that one.

Before I go off into my rant, I will say that Sith do have their good points...

They encourage others to be self reliant, in a way, and to aspire to be stronger individuals. A common flaw in todays world is that people have this idea that..."The person who I am is fine, and I should be accepted by everyone for it." Because of that, people don't aspire to become MORE than what they are. Not to mention, that way of thinking leads to everyone WANTING acceptence, and no one GIVING any out.

Sith are always aspiring to become stronger, and more powerful. Which, to an extent, is good. The Sith also encourage taking action. Again, to an extent, this is a positive trait.

 

But thats where it ends. Those 2 points don't even really apply for reasons that follow.

 

Going back to the Sith wanting to become stronger individuals, they pass the threshold. They seek strength and power at ANY cost, sacrificing everything. Loss of friends, family, possesions, loyalty, trust, body parts, etc.

 

Taking action, again, they pass the threshold. Constantly chosing action, never considering consequences. Making huge mistakes, overlooking manny problems, missing other possibilities.

 

They live by "survival of the fittest." and sure, its not THAT bad if your on top, but your never on top for long. Their apprentices constantly betray them. And so they constantly live in paranoia of everyone around them.

 

You break it down and it amounts to living your life betraying, killing anyone in your way, sacrificing anything you have, never considering consequence, afraid of trusting anyone, deceiving everyone you know, all for the SMALL POSSIBILITY you MIGHT ONE DAY become the top dog. And even IF you get there, it dosen't end. Because now your head is the trophy all other Sith are wasting their life trying to acquire.

No true happiness comes from that life. Its a hollowed life, with mabye a few hollow thrills.

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The Sith are not naturally inclined towards evil. The Sith way is the way of peace.

 

Tell that to Mr. Johnson who just got sabered in half by Darth Viddy.

 

Consider Darth Vectivus (I believe that was his name). Ever heard of him? No? That's because he wasn't a power-hungry egomaniac out for power over the galaxy or trying to wipe out the Jedi. He did no evil. He just existed, learned. Died of old age, surrounded by family and friends.

 

(That is all very well explained in the book "Betrayal", book #1 in the Legacy of the Force series)

 

What a loser. :)

 

As I recall, I don't think Lumiya ever really revealed if "Vectivus" was real, or just an illusion, did she?..... She could have very easily made him up, just like everything else.

 

That is why the Sith should rule.

 

Even if what you say is true, it has never been done. So are the Sith really better? No Sith has ever managed to be this kind of person, because it doesn't seem to work out.

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