How Powerful was Revan

[Sephira]

But the thing is, how is that a direct proof of him being stronger than Vader. Both were four thousand years apart, in completely different situations and completely different environments. Perhaps Vader would have been able to do everything Revan did, and better - or vice versa.

Force wise, it was stated in path of destruction that revan had more knowledge of the force than an entire jedi archives, that speaks greatly for his power.

 

Im not argueing revan is superior to vader by miles, i am led to believe in terms of strength in the force, both are equals but when it comes to knowledge i believe revan has more

 

In reality, anyone who features in EP I-VI are faster, stronger, better, more Powerful etc than any EU character or EU version of a movie Character, Regardless of what they do or achieve, or appear to do or achieve... Thats the nature of G-canon vs C canon.

 

Not a good way to put it, how is ROTJ luke a weakling at that time be stronger than his NJO incarnation who could pull star destroyer engines apart like nothing?

Doesn't make sense, The EU is also where we see vaders and sidious tremendous powers

 

Side note:

As for dueling speeds leland chee stated EU speeds do not contradict movie speeds at all

[Jvstice]

But the thing is, how is that a direct proof of him being stronger than Vader. Both were four thousand years apart, in completely different situations and completely different environments. Perhaps Vader would have been able to do everything Revan did, and better - or vice versa.

Exactly! That's why I never claimed that what Revan excelled in was power alone, but also the power of his mind. I believe everyone from his time's claims that he was powerful in teh force, but I think the thing to put more weight on is his charisma, forethought, and willingness to make sacrifices to achieve a goal.

[adamqd]

Not a good way to put it, how is ROTJ luke a weakling at that time be stronger than his NJO incarnation who could pull star destroyer engines apart like nothing?

Doesn't make sense, The EU is also where we see vaders and sidious tremendous powers

 

Side note:

As for dueling speeds leland chee stated EU speeds do not contradict movie speeds at all

 

Maybe it was a bad way to put it, but what I mean still stands, EU is Fantasy within the fantasy, the Films come first...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

[Jvstice]

Lucas himself revised the films, so which version do you claim is inerrant?

[adamqd]

Lucas himself revised the films, so which version do you claim is inerrant?

 

No, your not getting my point, I'm not talking about added film content or altered storyline's, I'm talking about how, in the comics, books and games, characters George Lucas has stated are not as powerful as Anakin, can far out do him in strength, speed, force use etc, and how we need to separate these characters and stories as secondary.

Don't get me wrong, I watch, read and play as much EU as I can get my hands on, but when Lucas says "Palpatine is the most powerful force user ever" and "Anakin would of been twice as powerful as the Emperor". you can't argue with that... Even though the books and what not seem to contradict this.

[Jvstice]

I always believe the story over the story teller when the story teller says something that is not actually part of the story they are telling when they contradict. Lucas made these things canon therefore events speak for themselves and things that do not occur as events are mere opinion.

[adamqd]

I think I get what your saying, and, you can believe what you want, and discount what you want, but your opinion doesn't change anything... there is more than just canon and non canon, George gives the writers and artist's license to deviate to a certain extent.... but how much deviation denotes what level of canon it is,

eg: The Force unleashed, the secret apprentice uses force powers far beyond anything seen in the films, and surely you agree that an apprentice can't be more powerful than Sidious? so we take that with a pinch of salt..

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

[Sephira]

Maybe it was a bad way to put it, but what I mean still stands, EU is Fantasy within the fantasy, the Films come first...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Not really, EU has their own grade of canon, and its canon status isnt renounced if it doesnt contradict the movies.

 

Its in the EU where we see characters at full power(njo luke being a god, sidious being the strongest sith, vader choking beings light years awar)

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I watch, read and play as much EU as I can get my hands on, but when Lucas says "Palpatine is the most powerful force user ever" and "Anakin would of been twice as powerful as the Emperor". you can't argue with that... Even though the books and what not seem to contradict this.

Nothing contradicts that, anakin as of ROTS has yet to reach his full potential so yes, there are others stronger than him as of ROTS

[Sephira]

I think I get what your saying, and, you can believe what you want, and discount what you want, but your opinion doesn't change anything... there is more than just canon and non canon, George gives the writers and artist's license to deviate to a certain extent.... but how much deviation denotes what level of canon it is,

eg: The Force unleashed, the secret apprentice uses force powers far beyond anything seen in the films, and surely you agree that an apprentice can't be more powerful than Sidious? so we take that with a pinch of salt..

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

 

Lol that was gameplay mechanics, so it isnt canon, In gameplay EAW sidious and vader can destroy buildings like nothing, crush military tanks the size of ATAT and effortlessly kill 100 rebel troopers

[adamqd]

Your completely missing my point, let me try something else... I think EU characters that are more powerful than the movie version contradict Lucas' vision of them, and because of these many discrepancies, books and comics etc are a lower canon level... You don't agree (about the contradiction)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

we'll agree to disagree

[Sephira]

Your completely missing my point, let me try something else... I think EU characters that are more powerful than the movie version contradict Lucas' vision of them, and because of these many discrepancies, books and comics etc are a lower canon level... You don't agree (about the contradiction)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

we'll agree to disagree

 

Leland chee states that the EU does not contradict the movies at all, hes a lucasarts employee and he is the one who reviews the EU and approve canon status

 

And theres nothing contradicting the movies at all, luke is not even a jedi in ROTJ and 40 years later he becomes the strongest jedi ever, theres no contradiction there

[adamqd]

I don't think you get what I mean, I know all about Leland chee, and the Holocron and Canon... of course Luke njo doesn't contradict ROTJ because it's after, and he could of improved his skill, the same way I haven't got a problem with DE Sidious, because its after the films his power could of improved. Leland chee states that the EU is Legitimate "Unless" it contradicts G-canon, the EU is NOT as canon as the films, read the statments Leland Chee, Sue Rostoni and the rest of Lucas licensing has put out about canon on starwars.com and you'll see this to be true.

This has spun into a moot point now, as I was trying to discuss a point about Revan's power versus GL's stated "Most powerful" Force users. this is not the argument I was trying to make, our opinion on canon is irrelevant... so How Powerfull was Revan?

[Sephira]

I don't think you get what I mean, I know all about Leland chee, and the Holocron and Canon... of course Luke njo doesn't contradict ROTJ because it's after, and he could of improved his skill, the same way I haven't got a problem with DE Sidious, because its after the films his power could of improved. Leland chee states that the EU is Legitimate "Unless" it contradicts G-canon, the EU is NOT as canon as the films, read the statments Leland Chee, Sue Rostoni and the rest of Lucas licensing has put out about canon on starwars.com and you'll see this to be true.

This has spun into a moot point now, as I was trying to discuss a point about Revan's power versus GL's stated "Most powerful" Force users. this is not the argument I was trying to make, our opinion on canon is irrelevant... so How Powerfull was Revan?

 

I get what you mean by G- canon triumphs over C-canon(The EU), i just misunderstood what you were trying to interpret earlier.

 

On a side note which i would like to add, many people get the idea that vader is weak and a slow ass fighter in the movie, but what people don't get is that vader was not trying his best, for the ANH duel vader and kenobi preferred to fight that way, as for TESB vader was merely toying with luke and as for ROTJ, luke stated in one of the novels that vader was holding back and could have easily annihilated him had he try.

 

As for dueling abilities vader is far from being sloppy because we have seen him display remarkable agility in his current state and being able to fight 7 jedi masters at once and wtf own 4 of them, im sure its clear that EU speeds do not contradict the speeds in the movie as chee stated so.

 

^ thats just to add a little note, hope you get what i mean

 

Anyways back to topic, just how powerful was revan? In my opinion, very powerful, in terms of knowledge he is second to yoda and sidious seeing that path of destruction states he knew more than an entire archive, in terms of strength in the force, he is under yoda and sidious according to several sources while he is roughly on the same level as vader for raw power.

 

For dueling capabilities i have no idea seeing that most of his dueling saber takes in gameplay which are not canon so in my opinion windu, vader/anakin, yoda and sidious beat him by far in that category.

 

 

If you would like ill list down revans feats which shows his trememdous powers

[Jvstice]

Sephira: I'd agree with that assessment. Kreia would have mentioned Revan's dueling if it were that spectacular. What she harps on is his insight into the force and human nature, his charisma, and his strength in the force.

 

In K2, you discover that the tablet Revan retrieved ok Korriban in K1 was by the best lightsaber duelist to have ever lived, but there's really no reason to think that Revan himself used it.

[Sephira]

It is unknown what happened to the tablet, kreia only speculated he could have taken it. And kreias a fallible character because she has never seen the ancient sith fight at all nor met tulak.

 

The only time we see the ancient sith actually fighting is between naga and ludo, the only thing we have seen the ancient sith lord to is throw a brick with the force and knock his opponent out.

 

@ A lil side note

Vader was very powerful to a point that the ancient sith saluted him due to his powers and not greatness and built him a throne alongside them on korriban, this can be seen in empires end when palpatine communicated with the ancient sith spirits. Ajunta pall also saluted revan and im sure he admired revans power.

 

This is another thing which indicates to me that in terms of pure power and strength, revan and vader are prehaps on par with one another

 

 

Oh yes to any moderators who are reading this, may i request we go off topic a lil while staying on topic? It makes this discussion much more intresting

[MaStErRevan55]

Revan is my favorite star wars character. You never knew if he was light side or dark side. Kreia said herself that Revan became dark lord to prevent another evil. He was a genius on the battle feild, he was probably way above your average jedi. he is the best.

[Sephira]

According to the new essential chronology revan is a lightsider

[PoiuyWired]

Well, with all the things he pulled off, it seems like he is almost Chuck Norris Powerful... Almost.

[JediMasterJambi]

Now, a long time ago, in a distant galaxy far, far away...I attempted to prove Revan was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The outcome you ask?

The forum was closed by the moderator

What I learened from that event was this.

You can't compare Movie Class Characters to Expanded Universe Class Characters.

There isn't any way to win. The fight can continue for ages.

Unless the big GL comes out and says "Revan was the strongest Sith Lord ever." then you could basically battle back and forth till the end of time without any answer.

Its my personal belief that the EU Jedi/Sith get more powerful as you travel back in time. The ancient teachings are less ancient as you travel backwards. The "Ture" Sith are supose to be even more powerful than any current version of Sith that we've seen, to support my point.

So I would think Revan would be a considerably powerful individual to have been THE Dark Lord of The Sith in the ancient times of so much power struggle and strife. Not to mention that he was complimented multiple times on how powerful he was by manny very powerful individuals you meet throughout the game. IMHO I would think hes a little more than only "Above Average." But actually quite powerful.

Well, with all the things he pulled off, it seems like he is almost Chuck Norris Powerful... Almost.

Lol.

[Sephira]

Now, a long time ago, in a distant galaxy far, far away...I attempted to prove Revan was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The outcome you ask?

The forum was closed by the moderator

What I learened from that event was this.

You can't compare Movie Class Characters to Expanded Universe Class Characters.

There isn't any way to win. The fight can continue for ages.

Unless the big GL comes out and says "Revan was the strongest Sith Lord ever." then you could basically battle back and forth till the end of time without any answer.

Its my personal belief that the EU Jedi/Sith get more powerful as you travel back in time. The ancient teachings are less ancient as you travel backwards. The "Ture" Sith are supose to be even more powerful than any current version of Sith that we've seen, to support my point.

So I would think Revan would be a considerably powerful individual to have been THE Dark Lord of The Sith in the ancient times of so much power struggle and strife. Not to mention that he was complimented multiple times on how powerful he was by manny very powerful individuals you meet throughout the game. IMHO I would think hes a little more than only "Above Average." But actually quite powerful.

 

Lol.

 

Firstly we don't need GL to state weather whos the most powerful or not, it's obvious whos the most powerful by the feats he has accomplished and in this case, its emperor palpatine. Hell and the ROTS novel stated yoda > any dark sider before sidious, meaning that he is more powerful than revan and already lucas said to compete with palpatine you have to be as powerful as yoda or have vaapad and shatterpoint as mace does.

 

And before you say the old jedi and sith > the new ones because you think so, your wrong clearly as lucas refers the PT jedi "Prime of the jedi".

 

Oh and as for the ancient sith being more powerful? You got to be kidding, many of their feats had to be aided by technology.

 

Naga sadow, the most infamous ancient sith did nothing with the force other than throw a brick at his opponent.

 

Marka ragnos, dubbed the most powerful ancient sith lord had to use a scepter so he could drain force energy from only certain areas. Emperor palpatine on the other hand as of return of the jedi was able to replicate this technique without the use of tools and he was able to do it to drain the entire planet of byss.

 

It was even said that palpatines mere presence in the force caused an unbalance due to his incredible power.

 

Now during the construction of the lusankya on coruscant, people would have obviously seen the ship getting built and palpatine wanted this a secret, guess what he did? He was stated to mind trick the inhabitants of coruscant making them forget what they saw permanently, and the inhabitants of coruscants are in the billions .

 

And when i post canon statements backed by sources, its approved by lucas arts thus receiving the canon status, GL doesn't have to give a statement UNLESS it contradicts the movies, as for dark empire. the canon status still remains because

1) Lucas actually admired the book

2) Its data has been inputed in the new essential chronology

3) Its data has been inputed in the ultimate visual guide

4) Leland chee, keeper of the holocrons of star wars .com still stated it was canon.

 

Now, the quotes as follows.

 

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.

 

Empire's End, one of the ancient Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

 

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

 

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

 

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.

 

 

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.

-- Death Star, page 76.

 

Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84

 

 

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72

 

^ All these are approved by lucasarts and have received the canon status meaning its fact .

 

And for your information, according to the essential guide of the force . Palpatine was narrating the events of the jedi civil war and the events on malachor meaning he was aware of revans existence, and also according to various sources, he has countless ancient sith holocrons which gave him access the incredibly powerful techniues, such as destroying a force bond between his victims and the force which kills them instantly, this is the same identical technique nihilus has.

 

He is also the gatekeeper of the telos holocron which has been passed down from these people listed

* Darth Sidious

* Ajunta Pall

* Qordis

* Seviss Vaa

* Kla

* Darth Bane

* Naga Sadow

* Komok-Da

* Count Dooku

[PoiuyWired]

Only problem... Palpy is the "Greatest KNOWN Sith ever lived...UP TIL HIS TIME"

 

Put it simply, there can be stronger sith in the future, and there can be "previously unknown sith" Its like calling Luke "Last of the Jedi" while there are actually aproximately 876.53 of them hiding somewhere under a carpet or something.

 

So yeah Sharad Hett maybe more powerful than him, Rebel Skywalker boy may be stronger, and the "unknown parts of Revan" is just unknown.

 

Plus, all holocrons Palpy have in his hands record information up to its last recording, and Revan's ultimate fate is unknown still.

[Sephira]

Only problem... Palpy is the "Greatest KNOWN Sith ever lived...UP TIL HIS TIME"

And which sith is greater than palpatine after he died? Right, NONE

 

Put it simply, there can be stronger sith in the future, and there can be "previously unknown sith" Its like calling Luke "Last of the Jedi" while there are actually aproximately 876.53 of them hiding somewhere under a carpet or something.

Right and darth bane called krayt a weakling and a pretender sith, sorry, canon states palpatine > all

So yeah Sharad Hett maybe more powerful than him, Rebel Skywalker boy may be stronger, and the "unknown parts of Revan" is just unknown.

May be more powerful? You got to be kidding, Obi wan whom would easily get crushed by the emperor destroyed darth krayt on tatooine with little effort.

Plus, all holocrons Palpy have in his hands record information up to its last recording, and Revan's ultimate fate is unknown still.

And palpatine has revans knowledge and that of the entire galaxy from 25 000 bby, Face it, its canon, its fact. Palpatine > revan. Even lucas says so.

 

If you actually read what i just posted you wouldn't have even came out with an absurd claim which has nothing to back you up.

[JediMasterJambi]

And before you say the old jedi and sith > the new ones because you think so, your wrong clearly as lucas refers the PT jedi "Prime of the jedi".[/Quote]

Prime of The Jedihttp://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html

That is the video title from a clip portarying stunts off of The Phantom Menace, in which Lucas was featured. If your going to call The Phantom Menace The Prime of The Jedi, then you need to stick with the Movie's, which Revan wasn't portrayed in. By the way...

"While historians believe that this would prove to be the height of the Jedi Order, this era was also witness to its decline. After two millennia of relative peace, the Jedi Order grew complacent in its influence and stagnant as a result of its many rules and regulations"

It was said in the movies multiple times that the Jedi of that age were "arrogant, even the wiser more expereniced one." Sure, you can call that age PT. But the Jedi that Palpa overthrew were the weakest they had ever been at.

 

Oh and as for the ancient sith being more powerful? You got to be kidding, many of their feats had to be aided by technology.

Are you saying being technologically advanced dosen't make one powerful?

 

Marka ragnos, dubbed the most powerful ancient sith lord had to use a scepter so he could drain force energy from only certain areas. Emperor palpatine on the other hand as of return of the jedi was able to replicate this technique without the use of tools and he was able to do it to drain the entire planet of byss.

Your simplistic and overly bias views on all other Sith Lord except Palpa proves how mind-set you are. It's apprent nothing I tell you will sway your loyalty to your Sith Lord.

 

And when i post canon statements backed by sources, its approved by lucas arts thus receiving the canon status, GL doesn't have to give a statement UNLESS it contradicts the movies, as for dark empire. the canon status still remains because

1) Lucas actually admired the book

2) Its data has been inputed in the new essential chronology

3) Its data has been inputed in the ultimate visual guide

4) Leland chee, keeper of the holocrons of star wars .com still stated it was canon.[/Quote]

 

What are you saying here? That KotOR isn't a Canon source? Dark Empire is not above KoTor in Canon. Not even close. And i'd like to point out that Dark Empire contradicts the movies. KoToR, however, does not. So I could discredit DE canon by saying "It brings Palpatine back to life, thus denying Anakin the fulfillment of his prophecy(To bring balance to the force.), which the movies are heavily based upon." NEC, UCG, and Leland have nothing on the movies. The movies are the Golden Rule Makers. Unless Lucas said Dark Empire is G-Canon, not that he just "admired" it, then your DE quotes aren't going to presaude me.

 

"In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, which takes place about 4,000 years before the Battle of Naboo, the Jedi Exile could learn Form VII Juyo from Master Kavar if the Exile was a Guardian, Weapon Master, or Marauder. This shows that a Form VII was created millennia before Mace Windu created Vaapad. In Knights of the Old Republic II, Juyo is portrayed as a powerful but precarious form that sacrifices defense against both weapons and the Force in return for greater dexterity and strength of attack. Every blow from a master of Form VII Juyo threatened to be a life-ending critical strike. Alternatively, Mace Windu's Form VII appears to protect the user from these attacks while still being a highly effective offensive form. This is illustrated clearly during the duel between Mace Windu and Supreme Chancellor Palpatine."

Now, its apprent that Vaapad is powerful. Juyo, though it lacks Vaapad's defense, has a higher chance of killing an enemy however.

Kavar knew Juyo. And I would think he wasn't the only one. It's a very safe bet that Revan would also know this form.

I would think that if Revan had Juyo on his side, Palpatine wouldn't be as invincible as you say.

 

I'm just making my point here. Revan could easily be as strong as Palpatine. If not stronger.

Unfortunatley, you seem to just discard any other Sith Lord except for Palpatine, so I don't except your response to be reasonable. I would ask that you try to consider that Palpatine ISN'T the strongest, however.

Peace.

[Sephira]

Prime of The Jedihttp://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html

That is the video title from a clip portarying stunts off of The Phantom Menace, in which Lucas was featured. If your going to call The Phantom Menace The Prime of The Jedi, then you need to stick with the Movie's, which Revan wasn't portrayed in. By the way...

"While historians believe that this would prove to be the height of the Jedi Order, this era was also witness to its decline. After two millennia of relative peace, the Jedi Order grew complacent in its influence and stagnant as a result of its many rules and regulations"

It was said in the movies multiple times that the Jedi of that age were "arrogant, even the wiser more expereniced one." Sure, you can call that age PT. But the Jedi that Palpa overthrew were the weakest they had ever been at.

Lol? Do you know G-canon > all? That G-canon = what george lucas said? If you can't even know the fact that what george lucas says is supreme g-canon. Nobody is going to take you seriously at all which has been the case.

 

 

Theres also the ROTS commentary where it was stated PT jedi > Kotor jedi

 

Oh and the jedis the palpatine annihilated were described to be the entire orders(From the first jedi to the current era) greatest swordsman.

 

Are you saying being technologically advanced dosen't make one powerful?

No it does not, Oh wait if it does it means palpatine is even more powerful seeing he replicated a feat which the great marka ragnos needed technology to do, draining force energy.

 

 

Your simplistic and overly bias views on all other Sith Lord except Palpa proves how mind-set you are. It's apprent nothing I tell you will sway your loyalty to your Sith Lord.

Im not bias, im stating the facts, you on the other hand admitted your a revan fanboy and cannot accept the fact that it has been official that sidious > revan.

 

 

What are you saying here? That KotOR isn't a Canon source?

Did i say that?

 

Dark Empire is not above KoTor in Canon. Not even close.

Oh but it has the same level of canon, the new essential chronology states this. Leland chee, the one who establish canon states this in his blog on star wars.com. The ultimate visual guide states its canon.

And i'd like to point out that Dark Empire contradicts the movies.

For your information, dark empire came out before the concept of the chosen one seeing it came out of 1992. However its still canon, accept it and move on with life.

KoToR, however, does not. So I could discredit DE canon by saying "It brings Palpatine back to life, thus denying Anakin the fulfillment of his prophecy(To bring balance to the force.),

You sir are not a lucasarts employee, you DO NOT define canon nor do you discredit, because recent books like the new essential chronology dictated the events of dark empire and has received canon status.

which the movies are heavily based upon." NEC, UCG, and Leland have nothing on the movies. The movies are the Golden Rule Makers. Unless Lucas said Dark Empire is G-Canon, not that he just "admired" it, then your DE quotes aren't going to presaude me.

Firstly leland chee has the authority to remove canon status and at the same time give it, and secondly DE is C-canon, Not g-canon. Even if lucas didn't give it G-canon simply because it wasnt a movie, it still classified as c-canon and thus it means palpatine > your precious revan. Hell i can even name you feats that make revan look weak that palpatine has demonstrated.

 

Oh wait got nothing on the movies? Then i guess kotor too got nothing on the movies seeing that it is classified in the same category as the NEC under C-canon.

 

 

"In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, which takes place about 4,000 years before the Battle of Naboo, the Jedi Exile could learn Form VII Juyo from Master Kavar if the Exile was a Guardian, Weapon Master, or Marauder. This shows that a Form VII was created millennia before Mace Windu created Vaapad. In Knights of the Old Republic II, Juyo is portrayed as a powerful but precarious form that sacrifices defense against both weapons and the Force in return for greater dexterity and strength of attack. Every blow from a master of Form VII Juyo threatened to be a life-ending critical strike. Alternatively, Mace Windu's Form VII appears to protect the user from these attacks while still being a highly effective offensive form. This is illustrated clearly during the duel between Mace Windu and Supreme Chancellor Palpatine."

You got it from wookiepedia, so whats your point? That it means kotor jedi > Mace windu because they use the same form?

Now, its apprent that Vaapad is powerful. Juyo, though it lacks Vaapad's defense, has a higher chance of killing an enemy however.

So? That wouldn't do any good against a stronger dueler. Oh and darth maul uses juyo according to star wars insider and according to various sources, palpatine > maul.

 

If your trying to say "Because kavar knows juyo, it means he is more powerful than mace windu". Then your simply wrong, lets take a look at djem so and makashi, If the lightsaber form you use is the only factor then i don't see why a weakling such as AOTC anakin have no problems taking dooku down, simply because of his lightsaber form as you just implied. However as to why he tooled dooku in ROTS, its because he got more skills than before, he succefully mastered the form to its highest degree.

 

My point? Skill is what it takes to defeat your opponent, regardless of what form as it is only a mere advantage. Evident by count dooku defeatng mace windu in the clone wars when supposidly vaapad/juyo > makashi.

Kavar knew Juyo. And I would think he wasn't the only one. It's a very safe bet that Revan would also know this form.

Very safe to bet? Can you prove it? Can you prove kavar taught him? Hell and according to the kotor 2 flashback in the sith tomb, revan was shown to be a jar kai practitionar where people like count dooku have an easy time against.

I would think that if Revan had Juyo on his side, Palpatine wouldn't be as invincible as you say.

Oh and palpatine is a frequent user of juyo friend, seeing that it was stated by your precious wookiepedia. And palpatine was described to be moving so fast that the eye couldn't see him.

 

Oh and have you heard of the fallanasi technique which sidious has mastered? It hides your force bond which hides your force sensitivity. Your precious revan wouldn't be able to detect him or sense him through the force. So sidious is virtually invisible to revan via the force.

 

 

I'm just making my point here. Revan could easily be as strong as Palpatine. If not stronger.

Nothing indicates he is even close given the feats palpatine has done through the force.

-Destroying an entire star fleet with a force storm technique being described to be the most powerful technique

-His force storm was stated to be able to rip out and destroy a planets surface according to the essential guide to the force

-He effortlessly killed 100 storm troopers with one blast on lightning while diverting the blast of lightning from killing his own men.

-The same lightning which reduced 3 force users powerful enough to ressurect maul from the dead to charred ashes.

-Being able to mind trick the entire planet of coruscant making them forgot they saw the lusankya.

 

Oh and incase you didn't see what i typed or the fact that you ignored them:

 

page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

Palpatine has risen from the dead. [/b]The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.[/b]

 

Empire's End, one of the ancient Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

 

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

 

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

 

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.

 

-- Death Star, page 76.(This recently came out)

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.

 

 

-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84

Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

 

 

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."

 

 

Unfortunatley, you seem to just discard any other Sith Lord except for Palpatine, so I don't except your response to be reasonable. I would ask that you try to consider that Palpatine ISN'T the strongest, however.

Peace.

Fortunately, id argue that revan is in the top 5 and exar kun possibly being number two.

 

But according to fact . Palpatine IS the number 1. YOUR the one being unreasonble. And i would consider asking you to actually read the comments posted and canon facts that palpatine > revan.

[adamqd]

they need to do an updated version of DE art wise, it's looks so dated and crap, but as you say Sephira it shows Palp as a real Badass