Miltiades Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Lets agree that both LucasArts and Obsidian were at fault, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Lets agree that both LucasArts and Obsidian were at fault, then. Yes, I think that the blame should be spread around. I've seen people pointing fingers at one or another alone. Looking at it though, I don't think either are blameless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediphile Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 At the risk of repeating what others are saying, they (Obsidian) have no control. Lucasarts owns the license and intellectual property, and leased it to Obsidian for the Sith Lords game. Regardless if Obsidian is happy or not, they have no recourse if Lucasarts hands the license back to Bioware for a sequel or MMORPG This is sadly quite true. If LA decides to hand KotOR3 to a developer that wants to reveal that Nihilus was just a droid, that Kreia is alive and is actually Revan in disguise, or that the true Sith have since been killed by gizka, then they are free to do so, regardless of what Obsidian, Bioware, or anyone else thinks about it. That being said, I'm excited that Bioware is the one with the ball in their hands, as opposed to Obsidian. To each his own. I feel the exact opposite way. I assumed it would be Bioware who would be doing TSL when it was announced, but it wasn't, theres no reason to believe that Obsidian would do another sequel, if the "trilogy" followed suit, another company all together would do KotOR III. At the risk of repeating what others have said, Bioware declined to do KotOR2 and even recommended Obsidian to LA. Obsidian then wrote TSL with another sequel in the planning stages until LA killed that project. http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html Since Obsidian has expressed repeated interest in doing KotOR3 while Bioware declined KotOR2, the logical assumption would seem to me to be that Obsidian would be more likely to write KotOR3 than Bioware, since they wrote TSL with the intent of a sequel. They should of worried about the game they were making, maybe it would of been finished?! (I know LA cut there schedule) Nonsense. If you cut two months of a development schedule for a game that was written at the alarming rate that TSL was written in, which was a little over a year, then it stand to reason that there is no way that it will not affect the end product. Period. Whether a sequel was being planned or not is simply not a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 At the risk of repeating what others have said, Bioware declined to do KotOR2 and even recommended Obsidian to LA. That would be me.... 11 post's ago, Bioware didn't do TSL because they wanted to concentrate on Jade Empire, LA wanted a sequel, so Bioware suggested Obsidian to LA. Nonsense. If you cut two months of a development schedule for a game that was written at the alarming rate that TSL was written in, which was a little over a year, then it stand to reason that there is no way that it will not affect the end product. Period. Whether a sequel was being planned or not is simply not a factor. It was more of a nudge in jest at the TSL fanboys, than an opinion or argument, TSL's schedule or lack of content means nothing to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henz Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Why do I have a feeling that in the end this wont have anything to do with KOTOR (I'd rather Obsidian take on KOTOR III personally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 1- I love this reasoning. As if an MMORPG was such a good cash cow, it was automatic profit. Of course, there is demand for a good Star Wars MMO, but it doesn't mean LA is a bunch of morons: they know such a game can fail and turn in deficits. Considering how Star Wars Galaxies went, the people would be skeptical if another game was made and quality would need to be there. It is no guaranteed success. They have to choose the right people to make such a game and wait for Galaxies to properly die.... I have to slightly disagree with your thoughts. LA rushed KOTOR 2 (And Obsidian said they could take the load.) Which is why it turned out the disaster it is. Not to mention the mere existence of Galaxies (Which we can all agree has failed.) proves LA is after said Cash Cow from MMORPG land. Another thing is how nobody is going to "kill" WoW and not even Star Wars can do that. The market cannot be over-saturated with MMORPGs and they know that. Trying to hit them would just result in the market splitting and nobody winning anything. The reason for this is how people are mostly not willing to pay two subscriptions for two games. I think you misunderstood my point. I know quite well that nothing can kill WoW. And i'm quite certain I never refered to starwars doing so. 2- Bull crap. It is well established that previous heroes are dead and miraculous comebacks are not something common with Star Wars. It would never work and I doubt people would request dead heroes. The problematic would be that these heroes are mostly villains. No one could face such characters as Canderous or HK-47. Hell, just make them NPCs and useful in the background story. ^.^ DE comics anyone? My friend, we're not talking about a Star Wars film here, we're talking about a game. You can't deny that it IS POSSIBLE. Don't put to much faith in LA to make a game that with correspond to what you think is acceptable in the Star Wars Universe. I mean, in the case of WoW, past heroes like Thrall and Tyrande are NPCs and practically unkillable. Practically is key. Both NPCs have been killed numerous times by over-zealous PvP guilds. Just search the videos on YouTube. Ok...Illidan was not dead after his confrontation with Arthas at the end of Frozen Throne. The developers noted that due to time constraint a proper cinematic was not made. If that had been the case, no assumption about Illidan's survival would have been made as it would have shown him witnessing Arthas' transformation.. > . < Heh, I remeber reading that. As soon as I watched the Cinematic at the end TFT I raced online to see if they actually killed him. You got me there. Khadgar, Turalyon, Alleria, Danath Trollbane and Kurdran were only presumed dead due to them being stuck in Outland. Considering the world survived (in WoW:FT), it isn't unlikely they did too. The point I was trying ot make is that BEFORE WoW they we're presumed dead. And AFTER WoW they were brought back to life. Deathwing never died. The novel, Day of the Dragon, mentions him manipulating King Terenas. This was published in 2001, before WoW, so he was never "revived for WoW". Alright, ill concede on that hero. They revived him BEFORE WoW. Cenarius is dead and so is Archimonde. Don't know how you can say they brought them back... Emerald Dream brought them back my friend. So I can definatley argue that. They can also been seen in The Caverns of Time now aswell. And you can actually KILL Archimonde yourself. (Along with 39 other level 70 heros ) Blood Elves- Yep, it seems quite weird and I agree to a certain extent. First off, the case of the Troll is quite different. Trolls in the Horder were not Forest Trolls but came from Islands Thrall stumbled upon them when crossing to Kalimdor. The mission was not included in the full game but was present in the demo. The Darkspear Trolls are now lead by Vol'jin, seen in Frozen Thrown during Rexxar's "campaign" and they never had any problems with the Blood Elves. I'm glad you agree partially. The elves of Quel'Thalas battled with trolls since they setteled in that area with Dath'Remar. Up until the BC WoW Expansion Pack, it was rare for any elf to treat any troll with even contempt. Merley because one tribe never made contact shouldn't mean the VERY proud race of elves would have accepted an alliance with a race that they harbored evident hatred for thousands upon thousands of years. Zul'jin- I don't really see what the problem is. The video they made for Zul'Aman, it is made clear what happened to Zul'jin. Now, he doesn't unite the Troll tribes but that isn't a problem either. He united the tribes of Zul'Aman, not every tribe in Azeroth. Darkspear Trolls for example, are a different tribe and under the Horde, as shown in WarCraft. I undertsand quite clearly that there are diffrent tribes of trolls. My point was that they are merley begining to turn every hero in Warcraft into a killable dungeon boss. Which takes away from them being Heroes. They could have brought Zul'jin back without turning him into a raidable boss qutie easily. That was my intended point. Time traveling is not impossible in the Warcraft universe and it was the best compromise to be able to play through those missions. Rhonin was thrown back in time in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy which was released in April 2004, before any plans for the Caverns of Time. It is clear that it is possible. I would think each of Blizzards departments are aware of designs for other departments plans. You might think that they were already working on Caverns of Time when War of the Ancients was released. That point asside, Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001. Once again, my point is up until WoW Time Traveling was quite impossible in the Warcraft universe. Such a thing would not be possible with a Star Wars game as it isn't in conformity with the universe. Isn't in conformity with the universe?! They can already see into the past and future! Thats quite an unfair statment to make. And I've been saying for quite a while that the only way it could work and make as many people as possible happy would be to make it during the Mandalorian Wars, pre-KotOR...read the whole thread before posting... Glad we agree on that. But with that, my entire argument is kinda over. (Yay for being to lazy to read 8 pages worth of posts ) Atleast the Starwars related part. (And I don't want to stray TOO far off topic ) I think a Pre-KotOR MMO would definatley aviod the large majority of problems WoW encountered. The whole thing is that I don't even want a KotOR MMO. I just want a KotOR 3. I couldn't really care less if Obsidian or BioWare would make it at this point. Though...I, personally, would perfer BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Why do I have a feeling that in the end this wont have anything to do with KOTOR (I'd rather Obsidian take on KOTOR III personally) While everything is still speculative at this point, I'm fairly confident that Bioware and Lucasarts have teamed up for a KOTOR related game. I could always be wrong. Yet, the hints - despite the ambiguity of the situation - are too strong for me to ignore. The chances of the game being even just 'Star Wars related' are high, given that the reason for Lucasarts involvement in this project must stem from its ownership of an exceedingly lucrative license. I don't see what else Lucasarts has to offer Bioware. Bioware has its own intellectual properties (and also capacities to develop new ones), and if it desired (and it usually does), it could focus exclusively on those. Bioware would only make a partnership if it saw creative and financial potential - potential that lured it into partnering with Lucasarts the first time around. Whatever the project is, its big. Large enough for EA to mention it in passing as one of the primary reasons for its acquisition of Bioware. This project is probably not a direct sequel, as Bioware has flatly said that they are not involved in any such project. Its an 'interactive entertainment product', a vague word that I am taking to be a MMORPG. Bioware has open intentions to break into the MMO market, and this 'labeling' of its Lucasarts game, as well as the formation of a clearly MMO-oriented Austin Studio - makes a pattern to me. The roll call of that new studio reads off as a list of former Ultima Online and Galaxies developers. More importantly, it has James Ohlen - former lead designer of KOTOR - as its lead designer. The game is said to have really have been conceived around December of 2005, which places it at about the right time for me. Combine the pattern with all of the various game-website hearsay about sources 'close to Bioware', mentioning a KOTOR related MMO, and the puzzle is pretty easy to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negative Sun Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Maybe WoW finally fears some competition from the LA/BioWare side which is why they've got Mr T and William Shatner advertising for them now lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-O Kreesh Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 It's been a while since I've posted, but here goes. The renewed partnership between Lucasarts and Bioware is a step in the right direction. It's brings a little glimmer of hope for me for Kotor 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Bioware would only make a partnership if it saw creative and financial potential - potential that lured it into partnering with Lucasarts the first time around. Whatever the project is, its big. Large enough for EA to mention it in passing as one of the primary reasons for its acquisition of Bioware. First, I wish to say that I too think the LucasArts/BioWare partnership will produce a Star Wars MMORPG. But to clarify one point, EA mentioned BioWare's MMORPG as one of the primary reasons for acquiring BioWare, not the LucasArts/BioWare project. The LucasArts/BioWare project hadn't been officially announced at that time. And BioWare has taken pains to identify their MMORPG and the LucasArts/BioWare collaboration as two separate projects on their website. Whether or not this is turns out to be an effort to smokescreen these two projects being one and the same remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 First, I wish to say that I too think the LucasArts/BioWare partnership will produce a Star Wars MMORPG. But to clarify one point, EA mentioned BioWare's MMORPG as one of the primary reasons for acquiring BioWare, not the LucasArts/BioWare project. The LucasArts/BioWare project hadn't been officially announced at that time. And BioWare has taken pains to identify their MMORPG and the LucasArts/BioWare collaboration as two separate projects on their website. Whether or not this is turns out to be an effort to smokescreen these two projects being one and the same remains to be seen. I wouldn't call it great pains to add a separate drop down option... If they are not allowed to announce that the MMO is a collaboration between LA and Bioware, it stands to reason that the incidental finding of the lucasartsbioware website could have prompted at least some form of announcement. The announcement remained general enough so as not to really announce anything. Basically it just announced that the website wasn't a hoax, and LA/Bioware really are working on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 First, I wish to say that I too think the LucasArts/BioWare partnership will produce a Star Wars MMORPG. But to clarify one point, EA mentioned BioWare's MMORPG as one of the primary reasons for acquiring BioWare, not the LucasArts/BioWare project. The LucasArts/BioWare project hadn't been officially announced at that time. And BioWare has taken pains to identify their MMORPG and the LucasArts/BioWare collaboration as two separate projects on their website. Whether or not this is turns out to be an effort to smokescreen these two projects being one and the same remains to be seen. Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say 'great pains'. I can't really explain why that Bioware lists a MMORPG and its Lucasarts partnership under different icons. Its a mystery to me. It could be explained as simply being a link to the new Lucasarts-Bioware joint website, soon to have actual content, with the Bioware icon for the MMO being Bioware's own website for the same game. As strange as it sounds, that would not be too far of a stretch, considering that both Lucasarts and Bioware owned and maintained separate websites for Knights of the Old Republic that had connections to each other. Of course, I'm assuming that. Still, the pattern does not add up to me any other way. I can't imagine that Bioware would bother to handle the load of developing two MMOs at once - inevitably not doing a good job on either game. Bioware has been clear that they are not designing a sequel, so that probability can be ruled out as the 'product'. I can't see a Lucasarts-Bioware partnership being centered around anything other than Star Wars. We can safely rule out the 'Monkey Island' or 'Thrillville' MMO. With the impossible outcomes removed, there is not much speculation room left for me. It all probably has some simple explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Maybe WoW finally fears some competition from the LA/BioWare side which is why they've got Mr T and William Shatner advertising for them now lolz Oh, you mean Activision Blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 'Maybe a bit of a guess...but why couldn't this collaboration mean the revival of Monkey Island or Full Throttle? Bioware could revive any of these games into a perfect new game. They're famous for telling stories after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 'Maybe a bit of a guess...but why couldn't this collaboration mean the revival of Monkey Island or Full Throttle? Bioware could revive any of these games into a perfect new game. They're famous for telling stories after all lol, true, but I think if they disregard the MASSIVE fan need for another KotOR, they'll be infamous for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darca Lar Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Nah, I'm sure whatever Bioware and LA are working on is gonna be both great and groundbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 'Maybe a bit of a guess...but why couldn't this collaboration mean the revival of Monkey Island or Full Throttle? Yeah... I can imagine an angry mob with pitchforks and torches burning down Bioware's Edmonton headquarters if this turned out to be the case. Then again, given Bioware's extraordinary talent, the end result would probably be pretty good - despite my total lack of interest. Whatever it is (and I'm confident that I know), I think that the game will at absolute minimum at least equal the original Knights game, if not far exceed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterJambi Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yeah... I can imagine an angry mob with pitchforks and torches burning down Bioware's Edmonton headquarters if this turned out to be the case. Then again, given Bioware's extraordinary talent, the end result would probably be pretty good - despite my total lack of interest. Whatever it is (and I'm confident that I know), I think that the game will at absolute minimum at least equal the original Knights game, if not far exceed it. *Pets his copy of Mass Effect and makes a purring noise.* "Now...all I need is an Xbox 360...Thank god for Chritmas...^-^" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I wouldn't call it great pains to add a separate drop down option... Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say 'great pains'. Hey all. Please read unedited post #310 again. I typed "pains," not "great pains." My intent was to say that BioWare has put forth the effort to note their MMORPG and their collaboration with LucasArts as separate projects on their website. That is all. BioWare definitely hasn't taken "great pains" which I would characterize as someone from BioWare actually coming out and saying that the two projects are separate and not one and the same. I can't really explain why that Bioware lists a MMORPG and its Lucasarts partnership under different icons. Its a mystery to me. Indeed. I'm anxious to discover the truth in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 'Maybe a bit of a guess...but why couldn't this collaboration mean the revival of Monkey Island or Full Throttle? Bioware could revive any of these games into a perfect new game. They're famous for telling stories after all True, but BioWare makes RPGs and RPG stories (you know what I mean). Don't think that giving them Monkey Island and Full Throttle will be the best choice. I don't think MI should be tried without Tim Schafer. It's a guaranteed failure otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 ^.^ DE comics anyone? My friend, we're not talking about a Star Wars film here, we're talking about a game. You can't deny that it IS POSSIBLE. Don't put to much faith in LA to make a game that with correspond to what you think is acceptable in the Star Wars Universe. Actually, they've done pretty well on that front up to now...They have avoided the Yuuzhan Vong debacle. Practically is key. Both NPCs have been killed numerous times by over-zealous PvP guilds. Just search the videos on YouTube. I know. It's still an incredible task and frankly, nothing in the story indicates the characters would die from something like that. It's no stupider then Thrall resurrecting at the Alter of Storms in some missions. The point I was trying ot make is that BEFORE WoW they we're presumed dead. And AFTER WoW they were brought back to life. I don't know what the problem is. Medivh was brought back even though he was clearly killed. Comic books do this all the time. I don't see why a game should not be subject to the same oddities. Emerald Dream brought them back my friend. So I can definatley argue that. They can also been seen in The Caverns of Time now aswell. And you can actually KILL Archimonde yourself. (Along with 39 other level 70 heros ) I still can't find where you can get that Cenarius is alive. Emerald Dream just means that he exists as a spirit of some sort. Considering he's a demigod...I don't see how that poses much of a problem. And Archimonde remains dead. Whether raidable by 25 players or not in the Caverns of Time is not a matter. The story is not ruined. I'm glad you agree partially. The elves of Quel'Thalas battled with trolls since they setteled in that area with Dath'Remar. Up until the BC WoW Expansion Pack, it was rare for any elf to treat any troll with even contempt. Merley because one tribe never made contact shouldn't mean the VERY proud race of elves would have accepted an alliance with a race that they harbored evident hatred for thousands upon thousands of years. Well, as much as I hate (or secretly enjoy) making examples based on real life politics, I can only say that Nazi Germany entered an alliance with Japan and the Soviet Union allied itself with the western capitalist countries. It's not the best of comparison, but my point it that when it's out of necessity, they'll bite themselves and do it. Still, the trolls of the Darkspear tribe are fundamentally different from the Forest trolls of Zul'Aman and frankly, they're part of the deal of joining with the forces of the Horde. I would think each of Blizzards departments are aware of designs for other departments plans. You might think that they were already working on Caverns of Time when War of the Ancients was released. That point asside, Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001. Once again, my point is up until WoW Time Traveling was quite impossible in the Warcraft universe. Well, that is quite true. Caverns of Time was an area from the start. At any rate, they've added time traveling to the universe. Doesn't really bother me that much, since it doesn't change anything in the current history. I undertsand quite clearly that there are diffrent tribes of trolls. My point was that they are merley begining to turn every hero in Warcraft into a killable dungeon boss. Which takes away from them being Heroes. They could have brought Zul'jin back without turning him into a raidable boss qutie easily. That was my intended point. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I still don't consider it ruining the storyline. After all, an RTS could have done the same general "damage" that you feel affect the story, bar the hero part. I think that the heroes of the WarCraft universe still have a huge role to play. It will not be the same as in an RTS, but I think WoW can pull it off and it has done so with positive and negative results here and there, but the good side outweighs the bad side. It all falls down to a question of opinion and preference. I suppose change will always make some happy and some very unhappy. That is the way of progress Back on topic... WoW, Shatner, Mr. T and Verne Troyer vs. Bioware/LA- To be honest, I hardly think they made the commercials between the day of the release of the LA/Bioware union and well...the release of said commercials. Frankly, they're pretty amusing and not the first WoW comemrcials. They made one with Ron Livingston (captain Nixon in Band of Brothers). Frankly, I don't see what they have to fear. There's no indication that it's an MMORPG and up to now, all indicates the contrary. Bioware is already working on it's own MMORPG and I doubt they have the resources to properly devote themselves to two of those. At any rate, it would be a pretty lousy idea, IMO. Mass Effect-Force Powers? Although I have not played the game, not owning an XBox 360 being the reason why, I've read that the "powers" in Mass Effect are strangely similar to Force Powers from Star Wars. I can't help but wonder...Could Mass Effect be the precursor of a new Star Wars SPRPG? Bioware, testing its skill and technology on one game before using it on another? The question is probably deserving of thread by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Not really news, but worth looking at. We already know that the Bioware MMORPG is using HeroEngine as its engine. If the Lucasarts-Bioware project does end up being one in the same as the unnamed MMORPG project (which I believe it is), HeroEngine's website may very well give an idea of the graphical feel of the atmosphere. They have screenshots of environments created/playing with the engine. Nice to look at in the absence of anything else. http://www.heroengine.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordjedi Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 they would probaly screw up a MMO Bioware should just keep making RPG like K1 and Mass Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern_fox Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 they would probaly screw up a MMO Bioware should just keep making RPG like K1 and Mass Effect I have to strongly disagree here. There is no indication of incompetence or hastiness on the part of Bioware. Keep in mind that the game already has been in development for a bit over two years. I am assuming that there are probably at least two more years remaining on the development timetable. Their 'its done when its done' attitude is reassuring to me. Its a refreshing approach compared to many developers. Reading the limited information and interview that exists about the MMO project, it seems that Bioware has learned and absorbed a great deal about the MMO market before jumping in. Given the mass exodus of MMO developer veterans that have joined the Bioware Austin Studio, the overall developing talent, and Bioware's obvious commitment to quality and an engrossing storyline - whatever they are cooking up is bound to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Q'ol Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 As long as I get a lightsaber and there's a great story, I don't really care. If Bioware does this project and brings half of the fun of Mass Effect, were in for a treat. Time is our only enemy here. I waited with baited breath for many moons for Mass Effect to drop. And as I was not disappointed in the least, it seemed over way too fast. The one thing I really hope they do is expand the game to extend story and playtime, even if we must sacrifice ourselves to a longer waiting period. I'm so itching to wield a lightsaber in this next-gen era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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