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A very Touchy Subject...


Commander Thire
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Pro Choice or Pro Life?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Pro Choice or Pro Life?

    • Pro Life
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    • Pro Choice
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This topic is about abortion... A touchy subject for sure. Any way Even though I have strong Christian Beliefs I belive A woman should have the right to choose. Think About it. A woman gets raped. She gets pregnant why should she be punished more by having the child of a man she hates? Maybe Has Never even met? People That are pro life are usually Uber Mega catholics whose defence is that in the bible it says murder is wrong. They consider abortion murder. Well correct me if im wrong but doesnt a baby not breath in the womb therefore IMO its not alive. Its not like its done barbarically either its done in a contained enviroment and done in a very non barbaric manor. But then again who are we to draw the line of where a baby is alive... We need to consider all of this in this for this conversation. Lets Keep it Clean ok?

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I may be a christian but I think the mother deserves the choice in a situation such as this. I bet that God understands this kind of situation and has sympathy for the mother in aborting the baby, despite what the bible may say. (i'm implying that i believe God exists, yes, but that doesn't mean i'm saying you have to believe that everybody)

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I am largely apathetic about abortion itself; I am more concerned with the constitutional implications of Roe v. Wade. I personally oppose abortion in theory, as I think people obtain their rights simply by being a human being, as opposed to having rights and freedoms "granted" to them by the state or some creator. In practice, however, defining when life actually begins is so difficult that I am at a loss as to a solution.

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In practice, however, defining when life actually begins is so difficult that I am at a loss as to a solution.

I use a very simple definition: when the umbilical cord is cut. Up until that time it is connected to the mother and therefore, IMO, part of her body and therefore her choice as to what to do with it. The instant that cord is cut however, it becomes a separate entity, and thus, "alive".

 

Basically, I believe that (unique, individual, separate) life begins at birth.

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I would not really define an unborn child as a "life to be" until about 6 months. And if you've gone through with the pregnancy to that point, I also feel that if you could put up with it for 6, you can do 3 more.

 

But I do believe women should have the choice, but I also believe in limitations. I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, hence, I would say no more than 2, maybe 3 abortions per year. Why? Well:

1: after getting pregnant the first time, and not wanting it, you're supposed to be more careful the second time

2: benefit of the doubt, 2 times, maybe one time you just really screwed up.

3: by the time you're on your 3rd abortion of the year, you're just too dang loose.

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I'm of two minds on the subject. I oppose Roe V Wade on the principle that it steps on the rights of the states to decide the matter.

 

Web Rider: In a majority of cases I would agree with you, however some men use pregnancy and children to chain their wives at home. I see it quite reguarly really.

 

As for rape being the only way to abort, I see in the future many women claiming to have been raped by a mystery man.

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I believe that women should be able to have an abortion untill the baby is developed enough that it can survive outside the womb, after that, the woman can still have an abortion if her life is in danger, otherwise the baby can, if the woman dosen't want it, be adopted away.

A problem with limitting abortion is that several people who can't legaly get an abortion, will end up aborting anyway, using mettods that are far more dangerous to the woman.

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Anyways, women should only have the choice to abort in extreme cases like rape and such. If it was consensual sex, i'm sorry for the language, but, screw you, you should have been more careful and responsible. Perhaps the baby will teach you that.
So if you get raped and can't prove it, you can't have an abortion?
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Holy crap, 3 abortions per year? I mean it's not some kind of hobby, and sure as hell no fun. I'm also not sure if after I don't know how many abortions a woman would still be able to become pregnant.

 

Besides that, and moral/whatever aspects aside, I think making abortion illegal would drive those into illegality, who don't want to at least carry out a baby to give it free for adoption, with all unhealthy extras, because many "doctors" sure would want to make some money with that. And at least from that point of view "pro choice" is also "pro life".

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I'm pro choice, every one has the right to choose what happens in their life, and shouldn't be controlled by some one else. Especially by radicalists.

 

Think about it, the only way to get an abortion is to go to an abortion clinic, you can't get it done at the hospitals anymore. What if the child was still born and still in the womb. The mother, devastated by the loss of her child now has to go threw them, having pictures shoved in her face. That be even more crippling to the mother.

 

Who is any one really to deny a person the right to chose what goes on in their own personal life. Certainly not them, especially if they aren't willing to be open to the person side of events that happened. Its fine to get your views heard, but forcing it upon some one else is just idiotic and selfish.

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Think about it, the only way to get an abortion is to go to an abortion clinic, you can't get it done at the hospitals anymore.

There are still a number of hospitals that will offer abortion services. Few and far between, but still present.

 

 

What if the child was still born and still in the womb. The mother, devastated by the loss of her child now has to go threw them, having pictures shoved in her face. That be even more crippling to the mother.

If the baby is stillborn, then it is already dead and an abortion would be moot. As such, this example really has no bearing on the topic at hand.

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I am largely apathetic about abortion itself; I am more concerned with the constitutional implications of Roe v. Wade. I personally oppose abortion in theory, as I think people obtain their rights simply by being a human being, as opposed to having rights and freedoms "granted" to them by the state or some creator. In practice, however, defining when life actually begins is so difficult that I am at a loss as to a solution.

 

Very good answer! I feel much the same way. Personally, I think that the government should not be a "third wheel" in the doctor-patient relationship. Abortion is a medical procedure and should only be performed at the advise of a doctor. The courts should have chosen to stay out of it IMHO.

 

As for what Commander Thire said about it not being barbaric, I suggest he read up on Partial Birth Abortions and see if that changes his mind.

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Holy crap, 3 abortions per year? I mean it's not some kind of hobby, and sure as hell no fun. I'm also not sure if after I don't know how many abortions a woman would still be able to become pregnant.

 

Besides that, and moral/whatever aspects aside, I think making abortion illegal would drive those into illegality, who don't want to at least carry out a baby to give it free for adoption, with all unhealthy extras, because many "doctors" sure would want to make some money with that. And at least from that point of view "pro choice" is also "pro life".

 

from what I've read having an abortion reduces chances of another pregnancy only slightly less than actually giving birth to a child.

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If you want to reduce the number of abortions, distribute condoms and support comprehensive sex ed. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. Jumping up and down and yelling 'ABORTION IS TEH SIN&WR0NG!!1' won't help the tiniest bit.

 

How about supporting the women who find themselves in crisis pregnancies to get the help they need to deal with that pregnancy? There are a lot of crisis pregnancy centers that could use things like formula, diapers, maternity clothes, funds, and volunteer help. We need to address the major reasons women decide to abort once they find themselves pregnant, and solve those issues, too.

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Abortion is wrong. Even in the case of rape. Yes, rape is a terrible, terrible thing, but the child shouldn't have to suffer for the crime of the father. The child has committed nothing wrong, he doesn't deserve to die. Yes, it's hard for the woman, but it's only nine months of her life. Then she can give the child up for adoption or something. I don't think anyone's life should be extinguished so that someone else can be more comfortable within their little world, no matter how traumatic the experience. Pain can be recovered from. Death is permanent.

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the child shouldn't have to suffer.

There is no suffering where there is no ability to grasp ones own existence.

 

I have no issues with abortion. Making it illegal will not stop it, and will not solve anything. You'll have more death, more suffering and sadness. This is another case of logic > faith. Even if you're a person of faith, you have to think about what has more positive humanitarian effects.

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Abortion is wrong. Even in the case of rape. Yes, rape is a terrible, terrible thing, but the child shouldn't have to suffer for the crime of the father. The child has committed nothing wrong, he doesn't deserve to die. Yes, it's hard for the woman, but it's only nine months of her life. Then she can give the child up for adoption or something. I don't think anyone's life should be extinguished so that someone else can be more comfortable within their little world, no matter how traumatic the experience. Pain can be recovered from. Death is permanent.

 

Are you a woman? no...

Are you currently pregnant? not being a woman, you're not.

Have you ever been...oh wait, not a woman.

Have you ever been ra...wait, not a woman, so extremely unlikly.

 

So I wouldn't go around saying that "pregnancy's not so bad" or "it's only 9 months". And, you've had...how many traumatic experiences?(equal or worse than rape). yeah, I really wouldn't be talking.

 

I'm not a woman. I'll never be pregnant, and I'll never be raped. That's why it's not my place to say "no, you can't".

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Men get raped too. They just don't have to worry about something possibly popping out 9 months later.

 

Unless they somehow get a well timed stone or cyst-thing.

 

Which is why I said extremely unlikly, the rate of male rape to female rape is like 1:10000. Aside from molestations as small boys by other men, there are VERY VERY few times when men get raped.

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What in the hell does that have to do with anything? I don't have to drink poison to know that it's gonna kill me. Pain is temporary. Death is forever. That's how it works, Web Rider. How is sacrificing the baby going to help cope with the pain anyway? What, is she going to put the mutilated corpse on an altar and offer it to some God so he will comfort her? Killing the baby isn't going to make anything better, and from what I've heard, it's not unlikely that it'd make it worse.

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