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Colombia Vs Ecuador and Venezuela?


Fredi
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Almost makes you wonder if Chavez is on some kind of narcotic. He clearly fancies himself the next coming of the still living Castro. Will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere. Saber rattling for now, but who knows where it could go if left unchecked.

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Er. You do realize that Colobmia was the nation who attacked the terrorists in the territories of Educaor, crossing national boundaries? And that civilians may have died in that raid? Geez, why don't you at listen listen to Venuezlan properganda?

 

Pfft. It's all political posturing anyway. Chavez may be stupid, but he's not insane. Colombia is backed by the USA anyway. What I am worried about more is about FARC and the right-wing paramilitary groups...are they growing stronger? Will Colombia suffer?

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That...doesn't sound good at all. I'm not concerned about Chavez - if worse comes to worse, we'll deploy troops to assist Colombia. FARC, on the other hand, purchased 50 kilograms of uranium, which, If I remember what I've read about nukes properly, is more than enough material to construct an atomic device.

 

Goody.

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Er. You do realize that Colobmia was the nation who attacked the terrorists in the territories of Educaor, crossing national boundaries? And that civilians may have died in that raid? Geez, why don't you at listen listen to Venuezlan properganda?

 

Pfft. It's all political posturing anyway. Chavez may be stupid, but he's not insane. Colombia is backed by the USA anyway. What I am worried about more is about FARC and the right-wing paramilitary groups...are they growing stronger? Will Colombia suffer?

 

Well, of course Columbia will continue to suffer. As long as Chavez can pump all kinds of money into a group like FARC, that's unaviodable. Still, what would you do if your neighbor was pumping in $$hundreds of millions into an insurgent/terrorist group operating in your country?

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What stupid, moronic, tyranical leaders/rulers/dictators this world has... Makes you really want to do soemthing about it, but then the problem is that in the powerful people's eyes, we're just lowly, pathetic citizens with very little intelligence, just drones... *sighs* Why can't I have lived in a starwars or startrek universe instead of being stuck on this pathetic planet...?

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Enjoy being Borg.

At least you couldn't say that anyone is better than you.

 

on the topic at hand, yeah, I've been keeping up with this, apparenty Columbia had been trying to enlist Equadorian aid for years in solving the problem, but they didn't do squat so Columbia took it into their own hands to solve the problem, I can't really blame them, especially if this group has a possible nuke.

 

The last thing the US needs to do is deploy troops we don't have into a situation that will very likly spiral waaaaaaaay out of control.

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I wouldn't be surprised if Chavez tries to use this as an excuse to grab some territory from Colombia. Chavez took a building that one of our church's missionaries was planning on buying without compensation to the owner, and the gov't seized our missionary's plane that he used to transport food and medical supplies to interior tribes, with no warning. Chavez also made some threats against any Americans there, so our missionaries were ordered by the State dept. to leave immediately for their own safety.

 

A man willing to steal from his own people will have no qualms about stealing from another country. The question will be how far he dares to go with whatever schemes he has in mind.

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From what I've seen of Chavez, the guy is a Grade A nut job...so none of this really surprises me considering his involvement. I'm not sure what obligations the United States has to Colombia in the event they are attacked/invaded etc...but even Chavez has to know he's playing with fire.

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Well, of course Columbia will continue to suffer. As long as Chavez can pump all kinds of money into a group like FARC, that's unaviodable. Still, what would you do if your neighbor was pumping in $$hundreds of millions into an insurgent/terrorist group operating in your country?

 

Says Colombia, who just HAPPENS to stumble upon the evidence when this entire crisis began...instead of revealing the evidence beforehand. So, let trust Colombia, right, instead of trying to indepedently verify the 'proof'? Honestly, that revalation destroyed any bit of credibility I had for the Colombian regime. FARC had existed for 40 years, with and without outside assistance, and I'm thinking Álvaro Uribe may also be a nutjob along with Chavez, in that he blames outside powers for his own internal problems.

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As long as Chavez keeps his troops in VZ, he can rattle his saber for as long as it takes for him to feel muy(sp?) macho. Since the incursion was into Equador, he has no real standing to act vs Columbia. And really, what dif if they didn't wait. I mean, who are they going to "expose" their info to? The UN (rofl)? That pack of impotent jackals does nothing but issue empty procolamations and such. If their intent was to take out some of these terrorists, then it's never wise to tip your hand. Equador's govt can't bitch too vociferously if they are helping FARC out, especially since the target was FARC, same goes for Chavez.

 

I have no doubt that a lot of the timing of this is obviously due to America's preoccupation elsewhere. No doubt a lot of the dictators down there are "off". Also agree that ANY terrorist group having a nuke is BAD BAD BAD. Unfortunately, the genie is out of that bottle and someone is going to eventually get their hands on something. Just cross your fingers and hope your not in the target zone.

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on the topic at hand, yeah, I've been keeping up with this, apparenty Columbia had been trying to enlist Equadorian aid for years in solving the problem, but they didn't do squat so Columbia took it into their own hands to solve the problem, I can't really blame them, especially if this group has a possible nuke.

 

Does that justifies anything?

 

Ecuador president, Rafael Correa, seems to follow the populist style of both Morales and Chávez, while Uribe is an US pawn. And even if they (Ecuador) were letting FARC members inside their territory, it's their decision.

 

This is about sovereignty. If, let's suppose, Canada would make an incursion into North American territory on a search for a wanted individual back on Canada. Is that not an act of war?

 

In fact, it doesn't even matter if civilians were hurt or not; as I reiterate: That's an act of war.

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Well, then, would you support declaring war on a major power if they send a team of assassins into your territory to eliminate a problem that you are harboring? The Cold War was replete with that kind of activity, with CIA/KGB/etc.. agents eliminating threats within the borders of other sovereign nations. If Canada allowed itself to become a known haven of anti-US terrorism, I imagine that we would "violate their sovereignty" as needed to eliminate those threats. Military espionage is also arguably an act of war. Should America declare war on the PRC for its attempts to steal US nuke and missle techology? What about attempts to blatantly manipulate another country's economy? Almost reminds me of the whole Cambodia/Vietnam argument. Going into Cambodia was not an expansion of the war b/c Cambodia was already involved in the conflict. Same for Laos.

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I find it a bit strange that the Colombian authorities suddenly fall on that "evidence" (nukes and financing)...just when Chavez and Colombian senator Piedad Cordoba (who isn't in Uribe's party) were having some success in their negociations for the liberation of FARC hostages, something to which Uribe was opposed.
Hey it worked with Iraq!
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Darth, if the U.S. had a unit of terrorists inside our borders that were launching attacks on Mexico, Mexico located them, we'd deal with the problem ourselves and thank the Mexicans for helping us find some more of the scum. Well, maybe not the thanking part, but the situation would never come up anyway.

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Are you referring to the New Tribes Mission ("Nuevas Tribus") affair?

No, actually, I wasn't. This was a different missionary organization. They received direct aid from us (among other churches) and so we got reports directly from them. Also, the building was not owned by the particular Venezuelan church that wanted to buy it (the missionaries worked with this particular church primarily). The missionaries simply reported to us that they were relieved they had not bought it, because it got seized, and the owner didn't receive compensation, just as the missionaries did not receive compensation for their seized plane. Also, they only flew within Venezuela for their missionary flights, so customs wouldn't have been an issue.

 

I didn't say Chavez _would_ seize Colombian territory, I just said I wouldn't be surprised if he did. Leopards don't change their spots.

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Darth, if the U.S. had a unit of terrorists inside our borders that were launching attacks on Mexico, Mexico located them, we'd deal with the problem ourselves and thank the Mexicans for helping us find some more of the scum. Well, maybe not the thanking part, but the situation would never come up anyway.

Say you live out in the country and there's a gopher that keeps coming into your yard and when you chase it out, it dives under the fence into your neighbors' yard. You want to shoot the gopher and your neighbor isn't dealing with the problem. Then one day spot the gopher in your neighbors' yard so you jump the fence with your gun and chase it around. Think your neighbor would be a little upset? Think the cops would see it your way?

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Say you live out in the country and there's a gopher that keeps coming into your yard and when you chase it out, it dives under the fence into your neighbors' yard. You want to shoot the gopher and your neighbor isn't dealing with the problem. Then one day spot the gopher in your neighbors' yard so you jump the fence with your gun and chase it around. Think your neighbor would be a little upset? Think the cops would see it your way?

I do know if your neighbor has a tree with a branch that hangs over into your yard, you cant cut it without their permission. You can get injunctions making them to get it cut, but if you do yourself and don't get them to sign off on it being ok, even if it's in danger of falling in on your roof, then you can be sued. Thats' not saying the whole tree... Just the branch.

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And you are still acting on your own property in that case. If you get the injunction or if you later sue, you are appealing to a greater audience to give legitimacy and authority to the actions. In neither case are you acting unilaterally just because you can. In neither case do you justify your vigilante actions by appealing to other neighbors' fears of encroaching forests that must fought back on all fronts.

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Different situations, really. Gophers, for one thing, don't threaten people's lives. They're annoying little buggers, but they're no great threat. And if Ecuador refused to deal with the terrorists inside they're borders, they're harboring terrorists, making them essentially accessories.

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[sarcasm]Of course, the US never manipulated the economy of any Latin or Central America country...[/sarcasm]

 

I wonder how the US would react if Mexico decided to bomb a camp of rebels in Texas...

 

To the first part, I don't make any claims that the US is innocent of doing that or being perceived of doing that. It was certainly one element of Japan's choice to attack America in 1941 (oil and scrap metal). Was only citing several percived examples of provocations. ;)

 

To the second part, who knows. We already tolerate a fair amount of kidnapping of US citizens, illegal immigration and drug running. But many types of incursions are probably hushed up at official levels.

 

@TK-one other problem with your gopher scenario is there is really no force in the world that approximates a true police force/legal authority to whom we'd (or any nation'd) have to answer. More like two cavemen having a tiff. I think Corinthian has it pretty much spot on. The friend of your enemy is basically your enemy as well (esp if he's helping them and hindering you).

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You know what this reminds me of that I want to mention? The U.S.A is allied with Isreal and is selling weapons to Palestine, and Russia is allied with the U.S.A and is giving weaponry to the midde east countries. If the friend of my enemy is not really my friend, then something's seriously wrong here...

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