Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I did not lie, I'm a christian I don't lie, I just said things that weren't relevant that's all...So you just lied about lying? How can we trust anything you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I didn't lie, I just didn't say anything that was RELEVANT, it didn't have to deal with this discussion, it was all true though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I said you pulled arguments out of nowhere, i.e. they don't have anything to back them up, essentially making them lies. You said you admitted it. Therefore, you are a liar. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 1. The pastor wasn't telling us anything, we're a small church and everyone watched, I watched the person's leg grow, it truly was a miracle...if I had film you'd just say, special effects anyone can do it... Says you. You got no proof. No evidence. There is 0 science to suggest that it is possible. It is impossible. You cannot make someones leg grow simply by hoping. You are in denial and have decided to believe anything your pastor tells you to see. 2. I watched it happen multiple times And I saw some unicorns today. Prove me wrong. 3. I do disagree sometimes what DAD says... What a surprise. 4. I studied mythology and other religions...those Gods are cruel... Your god destroys cities, kills people, and send nonbelieves to hell. That is about as cruel as it gets, kid. 5. It's not convenient it's a good arguement You have no argument. You have what you believe, but zero to back it up. Sorry, but imagination doesn't make a good argument. 6. That's not a real picture, 3D Rendering is easy, I do it all of the time Yes I know you can see a brain with certain machines, but to the naked eye you can't... Are you kidding me? You don't believe the brain exists? What the hell do you think is in your body? Light? Cut yourself and see if you bleed. Vomit and see what you ate come out with stomach acid. Jump off a building and feel your bones break. You have organs. You have bones. You have blood. You have a brain. To deny that is to show ignorance on an absolutely astonishing level. Go crack your head open and look in a mirror. I can 100% assure you a brain will be there. It is a -fact- that can be proven by that simple action. Your god, however, cannot be proven so easily. You are comparing a brain to god. A skull can be broken open and a brain can be looked at physically. Can the same be said for your god? Oh wait, he is invisible. I forgot. I'll just go hang out with my invisible unicorn now. By the way, here is a real human brain for you: http://www.smokingisjuststupid.com/brain1.jpg http://resim.urlax.net/image.aspx/Live-Webcast-Brain-Surgery--Right-Frontal-Craniotomy-resimleri-fotograflari-LJxPLNiRqnA.jpg Your turn Oh, still disagree? Go tell that to everybody with brain trauma and brain tumors you selfish child. 7. Yes death is hard to come to terms with, everyone's scared, but I knew a lady who was coming to church who died, when we went to see her, she encouraged death, she knew it wasn't the end, it was the beginning of a happy eternity What does that prove? You are going to take the words of an old lady as proof to everything you believe? That is just as bad as taking everything your pastor says as fact. How do you know she wasn't just scared of death and made the eternity illusion up to make herself, and you feel better? Letting go is very hard, but the thought that you will see them again is very easy to face. I did not lie, I'm a christian I don't lie, I just said things that weren't relevant that's all... I laughed. Hard. 8. The people who don't get saved burn, but if you get save, (IE: God forgive me for what I've done) you go to heaven, there are a few more rules, but if you meet at least this one, I'll see you in heaven Again, sounds like Hitler. Do what he says, or off to the death camps with you. A selfish, cruel dictator that demands obedience. According to your lore, I am going to hell. I am going to burn because of what I was born as. Which means, god set me up from birth to burn in hell from the beginning. That is a sick, twisted thing to do and anybody that follows that logic is just as sick and twisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Humor me real quick, and read this passage from the NKJV of the Bible of creation if this was real, you tell me if God exists...and read it all, it will make sense later... The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Footnotes: 1. Genesis 1:2 Words in italic type have been added for clarity. They are not found in the original Hebrew or Aramaic. 2. Genesis 1:26 Syriac reads all the wild animals of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with the Judeo-Christiant creation myth. Bible doesn't prove Jesus isn't imaginary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Just humor and read it like it's a real account of history, pretend a well known historian known for not making things up wrote this down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Just humor and read it like it's a real account of history, pretend a well known historian known for not making things up wrote this down...I do believe you just called the bible a work of fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 According to your lore, I am going to hell. I am going to burn because of what I was born as. You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but what makes you any different from the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 M@RS, I specifically warned you against quoting and linking things without any extrapolation or effort on your part. Why are you doing this again? This is a debate forum. If you do not know how to debate, then do not post here. If you continue to post in such a ridiculously stupid fashion, I will start deleting posts and infracting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 The History of Creation Quote snipped for brevity ~ET. They are words from a book written by humans. Any one of those sentences could have changed over time and you would follow those words entirely. “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” to “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let he be equal to the fish of the sea, to the the birds of the air, and to the cattle, and to all the earth and to every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” If that was written in the bible today, you would believe the second verse entirely. See where I am going with this? The fact is your argument falls back on itself. There is no evidence that Genesis was ever looked over by a historian or a scientist. I can read it, but I don't care who wrote it. The entire thing still reads like a fairy tale. In fact, go read Harry Potter. It says there are wizards among us. Go ahead, try and read it like a well known historian wrote it. Harry was prophesied to destroy the devil and unite the world together. Humor me real quick, and read this passage from the NKJV of the Bible of creation if this was real, you tell me if God exists...and read it all, it will make sense later... Want to know the amusing thing? The very point you just tried to make destroys your entire argument because it contradicts everything you have said. The thing is, you -do- read it like a history book. You actually need us to use our imagination and pretend like it is real? My boy, that is entirely what the point of these religion debates are about. Those of us that have grounds in reality see that long bible page to be a fairy tale. You see it as a history book. Thus you have gotten to the center of this debate. You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but what makes you any different from the rest of us? Good question. You can go ahead and look at your own beliefs, at the beliefs of M@RS, and then at my avatar to get your answer. Being told a sin is going to get you into hell is very much different to being told who you are as a person gets you a ticket to hell. And I have a question for you. How is someone of a different belief system any different than you? Why would god make those distinctions? I do believe you just called the bible a work of fiction. Quoted for this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I do believe you just called the bible a work of fiction. Nope no at all, that's what you think it is...I was just saying what you were thinking, that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 read this passage from the NKJV of the Bible of creation if this was real, you tell me if God exists......So if we read the Bible under the assumption that it is correct...we will believe what the Bible tells us? I am hoping that you can see why one would call this kind of logic 'circular'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Nope no at all, that's what you think it is...I was just saying what you were thinking, that's all No, you said, "Just humor (sic) and read it like it's a real account of history". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Nope no at all, that's what you think it is...I was just saying what you were thinking, that's all Hmm, I believe this is called circular logic. EDIT: Ah, ET got it before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Good question. You can go ahead and look at your own beliefs, at the beliefs of M@RS, and then at my avatar to get your answer. Okay, thank you for answering my question. Being told a sin is going to get you into hell is very much different to being told who you are as a person gets you a ticket to hell. It is ultimately up to you how you live your life. Believe what you want to believe. And I have a question for you. How is someone of a different belief system any different than you? Why would god make those distinctions? Well, first of all, we would believe in different things. Second, who said that God made these destinctions? Perhaps it was man that did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Okay, thank you for answering my question. Thanks for replying It is ultimately up to you how you live your life. Believe what you want to believe. Very true Well, first of all, we would believe in different things. Second, who said that God made these distinctions? Perhaps it was man that did? Thanks for the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Your welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Believe what you want to believe. No. Not at all. Believe what makes sense to believe. Well, first of all, we would believe in different things. Is one of those things better than the other? Clearly you think so or else you wouldn't hold a different belief. This isn't targeted specifically at you, as it is true for 95% of everybody. I suppose that having some objective, rational discussion about beliefs might have some benefit, eh? Second, who said that God made these destinctions? Perhaps it was man that did?If there is no god, then it would certainly illuminate that it was precisely mankind that created them. If there is a god, then we have to consider all sorts of uncomfortable questions like why couldn't he make a simple set of instructions that we could all understand (or better yet, why couldn't he create a race of man complex enough to understand them)? Why hasn't he corrected us? Why hasn't he shown one set of beliefs more favoritism than others? Etc, etc. Darth Insidious asked me about Occam's Razor in Kavar's Corner earlier today and I think this is a prime example of how it should be applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 If there is a god, then we have to consider all sorts of uncomfortable questions like why couldn't he make a simple set of instructions that we could all understand (or better yet, why couldn't he create a race of man complex enough to understand them)? Why hasn't he corrected us? Why hasn't he shown one set of beliefs more favoritism than others? Etc, etc. He wouldn't exactly be God if mankind understood him would he, say you created a species, would you want that species to understand you, it would look pretty weird if the creation was smarter that the creator...you wouldn't look like a powerful person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 He wouldn't exactly be God if mankind understood him would he, He's allegedly all powerful. If that's true then it's completely reasonable that could create a species capable of understanding him. If he didn't want us to understand him, then what purpose does the bible serve? Why do we have the ability to reason if he didn't want us to use it? Et cetera. say you created a species, would you want that species to understand you, Yes, absolutely I would. Why wouldn't I (unless I was some power-hungry god that got cheap thrills from lording over the beings that I created to be fawn over me). Doesn't sound like a god worth believing in. it would look pretty weird if the creation was smarter that the creator... Who said anything about "smarter"? you wouldn't look like a powerful person I don't think I'd look like a kind, loving person either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 No. Not at all. Believe what makes sense to believe. "Different strokes for different folks." Is one of those things better than the other? Clearly you think so or else you wouldn't hold a different belief. This isn't targeted specifically at you, as it is true for 95% of everybody. Example: You go to a resturant and order a hamburger, while your friend orders a salad. You argue over which one is better. Opinions, my friend. If there is a god, then we have to consider all sorts of uncomfortable questions like why couldn't he make a simple set of instructions that we could all understand (or better yet, why couldn't he create a race of man complex enough to understand them)? And He hasn't already? I think that they are pretty simple. Why hasn't he corrected us? Why hasn't he shown one set of beliefs more favoritism than others? Etc, etc. Who said that He has to? We make our own decisions on what we believe. Darth Insidious asked me about Occam's Razor in Kavar's Corner earlier today and I think this is a prime example of how it should be applied. Well, I will have to go check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 "Different strokes for different folks." "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". I can play too. We are playing "ignore the point by responding with tired cliches" right? What else ya got? Example: You go to a resturant and order a hamburger, while your friend orders a salad. You argue over which one is better. Opinions, my friend. That's a fine example if you're telling me that you see world-views as completely arbitrary and devoid of any deeper significance. My argument (sticking with the example) is that if we're going to have a serious discussion about nutrition, we should probably leave the taste tests at home. And He hasn't already? I think that they are pretty simple.Dead giveaway that you haven't actually read the bible Who said that He has to? We make our own decisions on what we believe.Nobody says he has to. The fact that he doesn't means that the hypothesis doesn't make any sense. Again, if the whole thing is arbitary (as you seem to be emphatically arguing here), then why even care? Why are you in this thread if the decision is really meaningless as you say? Why argue for one side over the other if you really think that it doesn't matter? Well, I will have to go check it out. Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". I can play too. We are playing "ignore the point by responding with tired cliches" right? What else ya got? No. Not at all. Believe what makes sense to believe. I am believing in what makes sense to believe. I'm sure that you think that I am still ignoring the point, right? That's a fine example if you're telling me that you see world-views as completely arbitrary and devoid of any deeper signifince. It was an example, Achilles. Dead giveaway that you haven't actually read the bible Hmmmm. I have. Nobody says he has to. The fact that he doesn't means that the hypothesis doesn't make any sense. Again, if the whole thing is arbitary (as you seem to be emphatically arguing here), then why even care? Why are you in this thread if the decision is really meaningless as you say? Why argue for one side over the other if you really think that it doesn't matter? It does matter. I gave an EXAMPLE, Achilles. An example. I was talking about us (as well as people in general) having different opinions. You say that yours is true, and I say that mine is true. He cannot force us to believe in Him. Well He could, but He doesn't. Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 It does matter. I gave an EXAMPLE, Achilles. An example. I was talking about us (as well as people in general) having different opinions. You say that yours is true, and I say that mine is true.Only it isn't a matter of opinion. One of you is right, the other is wrong. There is a god or there isn't. There's no grey area there. For ****'s sake, haven't you seen Highlander? THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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