Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Man oh man I can't wait for the U.S. to get in on the action this is gonna be a good 'un. If Israel goes ahead with this at the very least the U.S. will be fighting this war by proxy so I am definitely pumped to be able to fund a war between two other countries with my tax dollars since I totally missed out on the CIA backing coups in 3rd world countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 That was sarcasm, right? Anyways, I'm not a tax-paying citizen yet, but I wish our politicians could learn to mind their buisness about the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacTavish Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 but I wish our politicians could learn to mind their buisness about the world... I agree, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, so I can't blame Israel for not wanting to have a love-in with Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, so I can't blame Israel for not wanting to have a love-in with Iran. No one is asking Israel to love Iran, and Iran can SAY whatever it wants. Freedom of speech and all that right? Iran hasn't attacked Israel, so Israel has no right to attack Iran, "preemptive" attack is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah but you can blame them making idiot moves the U.S. might end up having to clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, so I can't blame Israel for not wanting to have a love-in with Iran. The above just shows why the Iranians want to get weapons. Some facts about Israel: Israel has nuclear weapons. They massacred Palestinians when they took over in the late 1940's. They flouted more UN resolutions than Saddam ever did. 78% of Palestinian children live below the poverty line. Given the above and if your an Arab country would you really be particularly fond of them? That's not to say I like the Iranian government; one of my best friends is a young Iranian, and if he ever returns home he will be killed. They are a very nasty government; but so is the Israeli government. (hint, look at what they did to the civilians in Lebanon; a quite wonderful own goal - a great recruitment advertisement for Islamic fundamentalists). [/End Rant] Sigh, I'm sure those in the region will continue to slaughter each other for the foreseeable future. Hate just breeds hate, as Ghandi remarked along the following lines; if everyone acts out 'an eye for an eye' the whole world ends up blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Meh, I doubt even the occupation nation is insane enough to attack Iran. Look at what happened when they faced off against a Iran backed milita in Lebanon. That, and they have just secured a peace deal with Hamas, and while both sides intend to break it at some point, why do it right after it's negotiated? Best guess is that the politicans want to boost their hawkish credentials. J7: rant aproved:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, Ahmadinejad said Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, so I can't blame Israel for not wanting to have a love-in with Iran. Yup. Unfortunately things may start happening soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Don* Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 The above just shows why the Iranians want to get weapons. Some facts about Israel: Israel has nuclear weapons. They massacred Palestinians when they took over in the late 1940's. They flouted more UN resolutions than Saddam ever did. 78% of Palestinian children live below the poverty line. Given the above and if your an Arab country would you really be particularly fond of them? That's not to say I like the Iranian government; one of my best friends is a young Iranian, and if he ever returns home he will be killed. They are a very nasty government; but so is the Israeli government. (hint, look at what they did to the civilians in Lebanon; a quite wonderful own goal - a great recruitment advertisement for Islamic fundamentalists). [/End Rant] Sigh, I'm sure those in the region will continue to slaughter each other for the foreseeable future. Hate just breeds hate, as Ghandi remarked along the following lines; if everyone acts out 'an eye for an eye' the whole world ends up blind. I cosign everything you just said. It's times like these that I really feel that the world needs another Gandhi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Or another Freidrich Neitzche... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Why? Palestine is probably the place with the highest concentration of cynics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Or another Freidrich Neitzche... I have to concur with mur'p and *Don* that a Jewish or Palestinian Gandhi would be far more useful in such circumstances. Nietzsche never commanded the respect of vast amounts of people, and could he ever relate to the masses in the same way Gandhi did? I doubt it. Well, Nietzsche did argue that if someone hurts you, you shouldn't repay them with good, and you shouldn't gain revenge on them either. What you should do is use what they did to you and use it to make you stronger; showing them that they did you good. I'm not sure they Jewish and Palestinian mothers could use the above to comfort them; I mean; I doubt any parent would feel the death of their child could ever be a good thing. Given Nietzsche never had children I cannot venture as how he would of responded to their deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Personally, I'd be delighted if Isreal launched a preemptive (their specialty) invasion of Iran, smashed their armed forces, wiped out their terrorist training camps, put an end to their nuclear ambitions and executed their mad dog of a president. That would make my decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Q: Remember Lebanon? Do you really think they could take on Iran (well, without using nukes)? Don: I really doubt a Ghandi would be able to do much, even when atempting to free a country from a occupation nation that was de-colonizing, it still ended with a blodbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Personally, I'd be delighted if Isreal launched a preemptive (their specialty) invasion of Iran, smashed their armed forces, wiped out their terrorist training camps, put an end to their nuclear ambitions and executed their mad dog of a president. That would make my decade. I really hope that is a poor attempt at humour. If not you have serious issues; the majority of Iranians are innocent civilians who are oppressed by their government and they would get caught in the cross fire. In such a war the casualty list would go into the millions the majority innocent. Even philosophers will praise war as ennobling mankind, forgetting the Greek who said: 'War is bad in that it begets more evil than it kills.' I'm not going to pull any punches; If you think the above is a good thing you are quite frankly evil... To reiterate an earlier point I made; Hate just breeds hate, as Ghandi remarked along the following lines; if everyone acts out 'an eye for an eye' the whole world ends up blind. The above Scenario would certainly see an end to a Jewish state; I think pretty much most Muslims would unite and attack... It would be catastrophic! You'd be talking World War 3 and a death count of at least a billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 @mur'phon: A: Remember the Yom Kippur War? Even when attacked on all sides by a numerically superior foe and suffering heavy losses they manage to beat back their attackers and expand their territory. This has happened more than once. @j7: Oh, I'm completely serious. And I'm not evil; I'm just not a bleeding-heart pacifist who thinks that fanatics who openly support terrorism should be handled with kid gloves. Iran is a terrorist nation, and has been for decades. While I'm certainly not against it's civilians, I believe that it's regime needs to be eliminated for the good of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 @mur'phon: A: Remember the Yom Kippur War? Even when attacked on all sides by a numerically superior foe and suffering heavy losses they manage to beat back their attackers and expand their territory. This has happened more than once. Yeah, just as the British ruled half the world; fighting foes of always superior numbers and often attacked from all sides. Such a view conveniently forgets military weapons; you were financed and backed by the Americans, and had technological superiority; against an enemy who were not united but greatly divided and made several massive tactical errors. Such a victory under such circumstances is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Yes, I remember, key word attacked, I have no doubts israel can break almost any "local" army in defence/counterattack, but as seen in Lebanon attacking isn't their strong point, except for surgical strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Yeah, just as the British ruled half the world; fighting foes of always superior numbers and often attacked from all sides.Someone's feeling guilty about their nation's imperialist past. Learn that in school, did you? This has nothing to do with imperialism. It has to do with ensuring global security. Such a view conveniently forgets military weapons; you were financed and backed by the Americans, and had technological superiority; against an enemy who were not united but greatly divided and made several massive tactical errors. Such a victory under such circumstances is inevitable.Ha! They were backed by the Soviets! And Isreal made a grave tactical error by being caught with their pants down, yet they still prevailed. Besides, I never said that such an operation would be militarily feasible or wouldn't have negative consequences; I just stated that I would be delighted if Iran's terrorist regime, it's nuclear ambitions and it's military were squashed. I wouldn't care who did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Someone's feeling guilty about their nation's imperialist past. Learn that in school, did you? I don't feel guilty over things I have no say over; indeed I would say that the British empire did a better job of running many countries than they do now. (That includes Palestine). This has nothing to do with imperialism. It has to do with ensuring global security. Ha! They were backed by the Soviets! And Isreal made a grave tactical error by being caught with their pants down, yet they still prevailed. Besides, I never said that such an operation would be militarily feasible or wouldn't have negative consequences; I just stated that I would be delighted if Iran's terrorist regime, it's nuclear ambitions and it's military were squashed. I wouldn't care who did it. Pot, Kettle... Black! War should be avoided as far as it can be, as it is always the innocent who suffer. You also forget you could just as easily write; Israel's terrorist regime, its nuclear arsenal and it's military were squashed. I'm sure some hold the above opinion; and your all going to end up killing each other; and perpetrating a never ending circle of pain, death and destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't feel guilty over things I have no say over; indeed I would say that the British empire did a better job of running many countries than they do now. (That includes Palestine).I'm going on the record by stating that it was a grave error on the part of both of our our governments in giving Palestine over to the Jews in the first place. People already lived there and it was bound to cause trouble. We should have let them settle here in the US. All of them. I'm afraid that racism played a part in that decision. Racism against the Palestinians as well as the Jews. War should be avoided as far as it can be, as it is always the innocent who suffer. Another Briton who shared your views. See how well it worked out for him? I'm sure some hold the above opinion; and your all going to end up killing each other; and perpetrating a never ending circle of pain, death and destruction.Such is life in the real world. I'll take realism, warts and all, over misguided idealism any day. Ambitious dictators should not be coddled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 J7: Perhaps a group of philosophers of kinds like Gandhi and F.N... A person like F.N would only need to use the socratic method to get through to the people at first... Qliveur: What's all this about misguided idealism? What's your proof that it's misguided? Perhpas war will work to a degree- but negotiation and diplomacy can work. Thing with war most people don't seem to relaize is you don't need to actually fight all your battles... You could instead negotiate. With an unreasonable person, a coup infiltration strategy works fine too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 @Arc: See the links that I provided above for the hallmark case in point as to why diplomacy doesn't work against megalomaniacal dictators. And yes, a coup might work if the Iranians were up for such a thing. It would be great if the Iranians could share in the benefits of the global community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Thing is, Qliveur, unlike in that case, the USA has more military power to back us up in negotiation than Iran does. Iran can't threaten us all too much, becuase in this case, the 'good guy' and the 'bad guy have switched places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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