Jae Onasi Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 France is probably not one of the better examples of socialism with its huge unemployment problems. Venezuela is likewise a poor example of failing socialism, since Chavez has turned out to be nothing more than a petty would-be dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Explain to me the dividing line between Socialism and Communism, Web Rider. Because from where I'm sitting, Socialism is just the road to Communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I don't see much of a difference between Socialism, Communism, and Marxism either, even after reading about the three on wiki and even finding definitions for the three. But I don't think that they are 'evil' concepts. There are some good ideas from these similar concepts, and some bad ideas. I think that the best government system is one that is a hybrid of many systems, designed to adapt accordingly depending on the factors the system would have to work with. I don't know what specific ideologies of politics and economics I support, technically, but my veiw of it is that the best system would consist of adaptation, fairness, and logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Explain to me the dividing line between Socialism and Communism, Web Rider. Because from where I'm sitting, Socialism is just the road to Communism. Communism is the extreme application of socialism, where government management of the economy is transformed into totalitarian control of the state. A little bit of socialism is good in the same sense that a moderate amount of capitalism is also good; it's the extremes of both you have to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Explain to me the dividing line between Socialism and Communism, Web Rider. Because from where I'm sitting, Socialism is just the road to Communism. I would suspect that if you can tell that Socialism is NOT Communism, and only could possibly lead there, then you can tell the difference yourself. Now, I'm just curious as to what exactly you call "communism" 'cause ya know, it's been applied to dictatorships, which isn't the original intention of Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's been applied to dictatorships? Of course it has - every wannabe Communist state on Earth is a Dictatorships. Marx's original intent is really not relevant. I really can't tell the difference between a state that's committed to Socialism and a state that's committed to Communism. I can tell a truly Communist state when I see it, but none of those have ever existed or are ever likely to exist, so I can't exactly compare and contrast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's been applied to dictatorships? Of course it has - every wannabe Communist state on Earth is a Dictatorships. Marx's original intent is really not relevant. I really can't tell the difference between a state that's committed to Socialism and a state that's committed to Communism. I can tell a truly Communist state when I see it, but none of those have ever existed or are ever likely to exist, so I can't exactly compare and contrast. Well it sounds like you're pretty committed to the idea that socialism is pretty much gonna end up a dictatorship-style communism, so I don't see much point in attempting to dissuade you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I really can't tell the difference between a state that's committed to Socialism and a state that's committed to Communism. I can tell a truly Communist state when I see it, but none of those have ever existed or are ever likely to exist, so I can't exactly compare and contrast. I hope you can tell the difference between Britain and the Soviet Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 There is confirmation that the audio tape is the genuine article and Obama is going nuts over this. Obama Attacks Fox News over Coverage of 2001 Radio Interview Also anyone hear about that interview Biden blew a gasket concerning in Florida, well there was another one just the other day in Pennsylvania that Biden blew a gasket in. (Gonna see if I can find a tape of that) It looks like there is some weight to the socialism charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Based on that article, I do not understand where you get the notion that Obama is "going nuts" over this. Sounds like an Obama spokesman simply told the interviewer that Obama does not intend to push any kind of socialist agenda as president, even though the title of the web page also indicates some kind of 'freak out'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Based on that article, I do not understand where you get the notion that Obama is "going nuts" over this. Sounds like an Obama spokesman simply told the interviewer that Obama does not intend to push any kind of socialist agenda as president, even though the title of the web page also indicates some kind of 'freak out'. It's a figure of speech, anyways the tape in question basically calls Obama's integrity into question especially with the Obama spokesman denying it all, just like they denied his ties to ACORN, Rev. Wright, etc. Here are the facts: (And I'm probably going to miss a few) Obama associates with Marxists Obama said he wants to spread the wealth around to "Joe the Plumber" He made similar statements in the radio tape, which Dick Moris on Hannity and Colmes on Monday, October 27 pointed out the way he said it was the code phrases used in the 60s and 70s. He said he wants to cut wealth to 95% of Americans when a significant percentage of those people don't pay Federal Income Taxes. (Which in my opinion and many other people's opinion as well is welfare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrtoken Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's a figure of speech, anyways the tape in question basically calls Obama's integrity into question especially with the Obama spokesman denying it all, just like they denied his ties to ACORN, Rev. Wright, etc.It's not just a figure of speech, it is a complete twisting of words; a blatant attack. Here are the facts: (And I'm probably going to miss a few) Obama associates with Marxists Obama said he wants to spread the wealth around to "Joe the Plumber" He made similar statements in the radio tape, which Dick Moris on Hannity and Colmes on Monday, October 27 pointed out the way he said it was the code phrases used in the 60s and 70s. He said he wants to cut wealth to 95% of Americans when a significant percentage of those people don't pay Federal Income Taxes. (Which in my opinion and many other people's opinion as well is welfare). Any sort of proof would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 so we're going to base our socialism charges against Obama based on a single 2001 interview, but we cannot assume that John McCain is going to do the same based on the statements he made in 2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Is it just me, or is Obama having slightly socialist leanings not really important? So what if he associates with Marxists? It doesn't make him a Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 so we're going to base our socialism charges against Obama based on a single 2001 interview, but we cannot assume that John McCain is going to do the same based on the statements he made in 2000? And I don't exactly agree with McCain on that point either, however McCain isn't advocating giving checks to people that don't pay taxes to begin with. Is it just me, or is Obama having slightly socialist leanings not really important? As an American whom would actually be affected directly by an Obama Presidency it concerns me. So what if he associates with Marxists? It doesn't make him a Marxist. If his associations coincide with statements and interviews he has made, in addition to his associations interconnecting, then we're looking at a pattern. So his associations can indicate him to be a Marxist. If he just had one or two bad associations it would raise some eyebrows, but it wouldn't be much of a cause of concern. But the number of associations he has and how they interconnect is why it indicates that he is likely a socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Scott! Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just want to point out the hypocrisy in people getting all upset when others point out Obama's association with his minister and "fellow terrorists" and all that, yet are so quick to jump on McCain being "associated" with his brother who did something stupid once. And that's all I have to offer. No useless walls of text that lead to more walls of text here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just want to point out the hypocrisy in people getting all upset when others point out Obama's association with his minister and "fellow terrorists" and all that, yet are so quick to jump on McCain being "associated" with his brother who did something stupid once. Amen, was trying to think of a way to say it without appearing condecending, but essentially you're right. And I've just found myself a pattern all the way back to when Obama was in college. Obama supporters point out that plenty of Americans flirt with radical ideologies in college, only to join the political mainstream later in life. But Obama, who made a point of noting how "carefully" he chose his friends in college, also chose to launch his political career in the Chicago living room of Ayers, a domestic terrorist who in 2002 proclaimed: "I am a Marxist." Obama Affinity to Marxists Dates Back to College Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Except that the "Ayer's living room" thing has been debunked. Unless you have evidence (not right-wing hearsay) that shows otherwise, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just want to point out the hypocrisy in people getting all upset when others point out Obama's association with his minister and "fellow terrorists" and all that, yet are so quick to jump on McCain being "associated" with his brother who did something stupid once. And that's all I have to offer. No useless walls of text that lead to more walls of text here. What are you talking about when you refer to McCain being "associated" with his brother? The 911 phone call? If so, that'd probably be on the news as a "lighter side of the news" story even if he wasn't John McCain's brother just because of its sheer ridiculousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Except that the "Ayer's living room" thing has been debunked. Unless you have evidence (not right-wing hearsay) that shows otherwise, of course. Debunked by who? A foundation chaired by Barack Obama that was designed to improve Chicago public schools gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Small Schools Workshop, an organization led by former Weatherman Bill Ayers and by Michael Klonsky, a former chairman of both Students for a Democratic Society and, according to The Washington Post and New York Times, a group called the “Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist).” http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=74B7DB99-A934-4340-9D46-1438C29400C3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Debunked by who? http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=74B7DB99-A934-4340-9D46-1438C29400C3 CNS News - The Right News, Right Now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/10/24/barack-obama-the-radical-chicago-new-party-socialist-with-evidence/ Though it's from a blogger there are quite a few sources mentioned in the article. Some videos, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just want to point out the hypocrisy in people getting all upset when others point out Obama's association with his minister and "fellow terrorists" and all that, yet are so quick to jump on McCain being "associated" with his brother who did something stupid once. And that's all I have to offer. No useless walls of text that lead to more walls of text here. I agree with you... Also, has anyone heard about Sarah Palin's religious beliefs? (They're just as insane as Obama's) She's into witchhunting and whatnot... Not to mention that she seems to be anti-science. For example, how she was talking about ridiculous government funding and said that the research of fruit flies is a waste of money. Apparently she has no idea how important fruit flies are to our study of some pretty major diseases... Also how she wants creationism taught in public schools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 yet are so quick to jump on McCain being "associated" with his brother who did something stupid once.I believe you are misunderstanding Rogue Nine's use sarcasm. It was a parallel drawn to show the ridiculousness of the charges against Obama, though it seems to have been lost on the intended target(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I agree with you... Also, has anyone heard about Sarah Palin's religious beliefs? (They're just as insane as Obama's) She's into witchhunting and whatnot... If you want to start on that and are referring to the source I'm thinking of it was debunked long ago, whereas Obama's associations are well documented. I believe you are misunderstanding Rogue Nine's use sarcasm. It was a parallel drawn to show the ridiculousness of the charges against Obama, though it seems to have been lost on the intended target(s). ET Warrior, something tells me that he didn't misinterpret anything, because the charges aren't ridiculous. Also present at that meeting was Ayers' wife, fellow terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, who once gave a speech extolling socialism, communism and "Marxism-Leninism." http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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