Astor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ok, so i've been following American Politics and news broadcasts for some time now, and I've noticed more and more that certain outlets, or people like to throw around the term 'Un-American'. Now, as a Brit, it's pretty hard to understand - what defines this? And what makes one 'Un-American'? Or is it just a political insult used by those who wish to disparage another's patriotism and beliefs? This concept of 'Un-American'ness is very strange to many outside of the US, and I'm seeking some input from anyone, Americans or not (maybe fellow foreigners also have similar questions). I'd like to ask that people keep thoughts and opinions regarding the ongoing elections out of this discussion - i'm not interested in hearing accusations against the respective candidates here. *Move this to the political discussion if it is felt that it will be better answered there - I didn't think it was necessarily a political topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Onion-American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Un-American is a term generally used to discredit someone (ie a political figure) who doesn't agree with you or your standing/policy/platform. In my experience, it's used far more often by the Right than the Left. It's typically a fairly low and desperate attack on someone else's character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The use of the term un-American today is an ad hominem attack and nothing more. At one time in American history the term was used to battle things like real un-American ideas coming from organization such as the Ku Klux Klan, but today it is over used to battle anyone that disagrees with the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think it's used more often by the Right than the Left, and is used to imply that anything that smacks of socialism/Communism and not capitalism is "un-American". I've seen it used by the Left very rarely to accuse the Right as being "un-American" as the equivalent of 'completely insensitive to basic needs of fellow Americans' because ultra-conservatives won't support things like universal healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think it's used more often by the Right than the Left, and is used to imply that anything that smacks of socialism/Communism and not capitalism is "un-American". I've seen it used by the Left very rarely to accuse the Right as being "un-American" as the equivalent of 'completely insensitive to basic needs of fellow Americans' because ultra-conservatives won't support things like universal healthcare. You are correct that the Right uses it more often than the left. It isn't just used to imply things regarding socialism/Communism though, it also has to do with specific media outlets praising or being sympathetic to terrorists. Sometimes the charge is overused, though it's not like the left is a hapless victim in this. They tend to accuse conservatives of being sexist and racist. It's kinda like two siblings fighting and calling each other names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar-El Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ok, so i've been following American Politics and news broadcasts for some time now, and I've noticed more and more that certain outlets, or people like to throw around the term 'Un-American'. Now, as a Brit, it's pretty hard to understand - what defines this? And what makes one 'Un-American'? Or is it just a political insult used by those who wish to disparage another's patriotism and beliefs? This concept of 'Un-American'ness is very strange to many outside of the US, and I'm seeking some input from anyone, Americans or not (maybe fellow foreigners also have similar questions). I call someone Un-American when he or she takes action that is in contradiction to the founding laws and fathers. Laws that prevent The Freedom of Speech, The Right to Bear Arms, The Freedom of Religion, and so forth. Some other anti-American faculties include not standing up to speak out, not challanging authority, not picking up a gun in a World War crisis, not using diplomacy, and many others. U. S. founding fathers commited treason to establish a nation that allows choices and extended freedoms. People physically died for other people's ability to be free. Un-American behavior is an action that spits and dismisses the foundations our country stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Reminder to everyone--Astor requested issues about the ongoing campaign and elections are not part of the discussion here. Those comments will be considered off-topic and deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Un-American behavior is an action that spits and dismisses the foundations our country stands for.Which foundations our country stands for? Freedom of Speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar-El Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Which foundations our country stands for? Freedom of Speech? The foundations that were settled when we created the Bill of Rights and Consitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The foundations that were settled when we created the Bill of Rights and Consitution. Yet, one of these is the Freedom of Speech. American men and women have fought and died to guarantee that right. Are we not spiting and dismissing the foundations our country stands for when we call someone un-American for speaking their mind. Under your definition, doesn’t that mean that anyone that uses the term un-American when talking about someone stating their opinion is in fact un-American? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Under your definition, doesn’t that mean that anyone that uses the term un-American when talking about someone stating their opinion is in fact un-American? A brilliant paradox _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Un-American is a term of US political discourse which is sometimes applied to people or institutions in the United States in an attempt to deny the targets the identity of American. It implies a substantial deviation from US norms and may extend to internal subversion, espionage or treason. The most famous use is in the title of the House Un-American Activities Committee which was started to combat Nazi and Ku Klux Klan (KKK) activity in the US during World War II and which later investigated the activities of Communists and purported Communists in the US. By 1959, however, former President Harry S. Truman had denounced the House Un-American Activities Committee as the "most un-American thing in the country today.[1]" The use and meaning of the term is by no means uniform in the US. Due in part to these historical associations with political abuses and jingoism, the attitudes of Americans toward the pejorative use of "Un-American" are often critical or suspicious. Moreover, Americans may vary widely in what they believe to be un-American. >.> <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I find this sad: George Bush Senior: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Source: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm Apparently my inclination to science, reason, peace, and understanding makes me unamerican... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar-El Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is the answer to Arcesiou's reply. Above. ^ Some people are aware of this pieces of U. S. history. The MayFlower Compact The United States is a Christian-European Ancestrial Country. We want to create imigration laws; thus, protecting our European and African American roots. European Americans and African Americans must now work together to take back our country from illegal invaders. Asian Americans are the only other group that have come here legally and have assimulated. This is a subject and argument for another time. Atheists are in contradiction to our founding fathers; however, they are also protected by our founding laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawathehutt Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 According to the people in the young republicans club of my school I'm un-American because I agree with most of John Lockes ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar-El Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 According to the people in the young republicans club of my school I'm un-American because I agree with most of John Lockes ideas. John locke John Locke was a major investor in the English slave-trade through the Royal Africa Company, as well as through his participation in drafting the Fundamental Constitution of the Carolinas while Shaftesbury's secretary, which established a feudal aristocracy and gave a master absolute power over his slaves. They may be upset about his involvement in slavery. John Locke would be unpatriotic in current day America. Some of our founding fathers also had slaves; however, the Consitition and Bill of Rights made people realize that all men are created equal. This didn't happen right of way. It took several decades to start getting things straight. Was he Un-American? There were alot of controversial things going on at the time; thus, you would have to measure him up to his place in history. He was an English Exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I find this sad: George Bush Senior: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Source: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm Apparently my inclination to science, reason, peace, and understanding makes me unamerican... I would recommend seeing if you can find the text of the original speech and get the whole context, and make your decision from there. Atheist sites aren't immune to spinning something any more than any other group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is the answer to Arcesiou's reply. Above. ^ Some people are aware of this pieces of U. S. history. The MayFlower Compact ... Atheists are in contradiction to our founding fathers; however, they are also protected by our founding laws. The founding fathers did not come to America on the Mayflower, which arrived there in 1621, well before the declaration of independance was signed in 1776. At least some of them may have been religious (I don't know), but they nonetheless founded the United States as a secular nation. Thus, atheists are not in agreeance nor disagreeance with the founding fathers, who were apparently of the opinion that it doesn't matter what anyone believes. In other words, a person's views on god(s) bears no relevancy to their American status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rake Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Atheists are in contradiction to our founding fathers. If you are implying that Athiests are contradicting the founding fathers, because the fathers were christian, then you are mistaken. http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html (where article can be found, I had an antivirus scam pop-up, so I warn you, visit at your own risk) John Adams: Also Adams: The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states: The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion. Thomas Jefferson: I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short Jefferson again: Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus. There are more by Thomas Paine and Madison as well. If you are implying that athiests are in contradiction to the founding fathers' belief in creation, then your point is somewhat valid. However, the founding fathers are not gods that we should model our lives after, they are men who began our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 There are more by Thomas Paine Paine for the record was a deist (along with being a fine example of a human being and an excellent writer (like Voltaire, contrary to the popular belief that they were not atheists)). Regardless, if an individual is an atheist has nothing to do with their loyalties to America, and furthermore, if someone has freedom of religion, calling them un-American for having different religious views to yourself, is in fact in contradiction to the Bill of right. As for Christianity - it would seem to me that people need to be reminded Jesus did not rule people by force - his message was love, ergo do you see him forcing the pharisee's to believe? As such if you believe him to be the Ruler of the Universe - with all his glory and power didn't force people to believe in him - do you really think he wants you to force yourselves upon people? That is all I have to say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 If the founding fathers were so hung up on Christianity why bother with that entire Separation of Church and State thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 In my experience, "unamerican" is universally used by people who have poor arguments against what they're trying to disparage. If someone is a traitor, say he is a traitor. If someone is a liar, say he is a liar, etc. But if someone says that another person is unamerican, I am likely to start ignoring them immediately after because they have nothing to say that's worth my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 sam are you implying that former senator joseph mccarthy was an ignorant douchebag? because that's pretty unamerican sam >:| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawathehutt Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 John locke They may be upset about his involvement in slavery. John Locke would be unpatriotic in current day America. Some of our founding fathers also had slaves; however, the Consitition and Bill of Rights made people realize that all men are created equal. This didn't happen right of way. It took several decades to start getting things straight. Was he Un-American? There were alot of controversial things going on at the time; thus, you would have to measure him up to his place in history. He was an English Exile. Haha, assuming the people in that group actually knew who Locke was until I explained his ideas to them is giving that group faarrrr too much credit. If anything, that group should be called the young bill o rileys club, I dont think any of them know a thing about actual politics, for the most part they just call everyone else immoral and insult them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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