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Death Star vs Star Forge?


Star Forge or Death Star?  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Star Forge or Death Star?

    • Star Forge
      26
    • Death Star
      23


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Let's throw in another example: Ark Hammer vs. Imperial Star Destroyer.

 

The Ark Hammer has defensive and offensive systems, but it was not a warship. It was designed to build and launch Dark Troopers, but if you create some bogus what if scenario where this special cruiser would be pitted against and ISD; it completely negates the logic behind any projected outcomes.

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HAHA STAR FORGE !!

EASY !!

 

lets imagina..you just order the mighty power of the star forge (it has something to with the force ..not just lasers) to create a deathstar...and there you go..now there's the deathstar vs the starforge, its army, and a deathstar...

 

Prove it that SF can create a Death Star. How many times I have to say I don't accept what-ifs and baseless assumption. Otherwise, stay out of this thread.

 

Let's throw in another example: Ark Hammer vs. Imperial Star Destroyer.

 

The Ark Hammer has defensive and offensive systems, but it was not a warship. It was designed to build and launch Dark Troopers, but if you create some bogus what if scenario where this special cruiser would be pitted against and ISD; it completely negates the logic behind any projected outcomes.

 

Another failed attempt. Do you even realize that this post is another form of "will be", "what-ifs", "could be". Bring real facts, not baseless speculation. See how posters in other sites debate.

 

And it's entirely possible to do so.

 

Seriously, if we are discussing a scenario where the Star Forge and the Death Star are existing in the same time period and in the same Galaxy, all Revan needs are either schematics of the Death Star or of something very similar to the Death Star. The Star Forge then starts pumping out individual sections of the station, along with droid ships to assemble those sections into the complete product.

 

Uh, actually it does. The only reason why the Rebels on Yavin IV survived the final battle in A New Hope was BECAUSE the Death Star took forever to get into position and charge up its laser.

 

And a shield around the Star Forge is perfectly possible. If a little facility on the Endor Forest Moon could project a deflector shield around the Death Star II, the Star Forge could certainly be configured to put up a shield around itself capable of deflecting the Death Star's blast using the power not only of the Lehon sun, but the FORCE ITSELF.

 

Don't believe me? Let me quote part of your name sake:

 

*evil breathing* The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. *more evil breathing*:D

 

This thread is already worthless. What can SF possibly do to DS in 30 minutes? Please no other bullsh*t speculations . I'm tired of them. Prove it that Malak has create a SF-sized shield that can take a planet-busting superlaser hit. Otherwise you are just another failed poster that cannot prove what he says.

 

And please, flamming won't work on me. I'm not some foolish fanboy. You really need to be educated in vs threads' way of debating. This is a vs thread, life's hard dude, get on with it. Just accept it, some quote like that means nothing in a vs thread, especially if it's in site such as Comicvine, KMC, Marvel Boards, and others.

 

Also, votes mean nothing in a vs thread, debate is the most important thing.

 

Try again and bring real feats of SF that can prove SF will survive a battle against DS.

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Prove that the DS can withstand the disruptor field and that its superlaser can destroy the SF. I still think that if the SF could withstand the enormous heat generated so close by a star, it could withstand superlaser fire.

 

And SF could fabricate a DS for absolutely no costs whatsoever. It may take some time to put it all together, but I see no reason to assume you can't build a DS if you had a factory like the SF creating all the components from scratch.

 

And please don't make all this blatant bullsh*t speculation like the DS is fully charged and up against nothing but the SF and that it would beat it in thirty seconds. When you give all the cards to one side, then the opposite side obviously won't win, so make a more realistic scenario.

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Prove that the DS can withstand the disruptor field and that its superlaser can destroy the SF. I still think that if the SF could withstand the enormous heat generated so close by a star, it could withstand superlaser fire.

 

And SF could fabricate a DS for absolutely no costs whatsoever. It may take some time to put it all together, but I see no reason to assume you can't build a DS if you had a factory like the SF creating all the components from scratch.

 

I already given you the video to prove that DS can destroy a planet. If you cannot proof that SF's shield can't withstand planet-busting beam, then there's no right to even say that SF can withstand the superlaser, because if you do, then you make another baseless assumption.

 

And please don't make all this blatant bullsh*t speculation like the DS is fully charged and up against nothing but the SF and that it would beat it in thirty seconds. When you give all the cards to one side, then the opposite side obviously won't win, so make a more realistic scenario.

 

According to Dac, 30 minutes is the time needed to destroy Alderaan, and I have the proof to say SF will in about the same time, or even less. SF can't withstand planet-busting laser. You're the one who always talk "what-if" and "maybe", but never even gives SF's feat that capable of even stand a chance against DS. I think we know who's the one talking bullsh*t.

 

"I still think it will" won't work in a vs thread, facts and feats will. I really don't understand why you and all the people in SF's side don't get it?

 

Do you even try to see how a vs thread goes in other sites? Learning is good, you know. Makes human smarter.

 

No one in other sites will even support you if you can't bring any proof of your statement. I'm sorry to be a little bit rude, but it's the same as you're saying bullsh*ts. Sorry.

 

I just don't understand why you don't want to debate like other people in other sites.

 

You already lose here, why don;t you admit it? You don't even try to bring feats that can prove SF will survive this battle, let alone winning this. You failed horribly.

 

Just admit you and your side lose, and I won't continue with this thread again.

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I already given you the video to prove that DS can destroy a planet. If you cannot proof that SF's shield can't withstand planet-busting beam, then there's no right to even say that SF can withstand the superlaser, because if you do, then you make another baseless assumption.

 

 

 

According to Dac, 30 minutes is the time needed to destroy Alderaan, and I have the proof to say SF will in about the same time, or even less. SF can't withstand planet-busting laser. You're the one who always talk "what-if" and "maybe", but never even gives SF's feat that capable of even stand a chance against DS. I think we know who's the one talking bullsh*t.

 

"I still think it will" won't work in a vs thread, facts and feats will. I really don't understand why you and all the people in SF's side don't get it?

 

Do you even try to see how a vs thread goes in other sites? Learning is good, you know. Makes human smarter.

 

No one in other sites will even support you if you can't bring any proof of your statement. I'm sorry to be a little bit rude, but it's the same as you're saying bullsh*ts. Sorry.

 

I just don't understand why you don't want to debate like other people in other sites.

 

You already lose here, why don;t you admit it? You don't even try to bring feats that can prove SF will survive this battle, let alone winning this. You failed horribly.

 

Just admit you and your side lose, and I won't continue with this thread again.

 

Umm.....Vader, no offense but you take this a bit too seriously. And about that 30 min, I'm not sure of it but will check it.

EDIT: I checked the video, and it turned out that it was only 15 mins.

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Umm.....Vader, no offense but you take this a bit too seriously. And about that 30 min, I'm not sure of it but will check it.

EDIT: I checked the video, and it turned out that it was only 15 mins.

 

EDIT: Thanks for the information.

 

Well, this is my way of educating people. Sorry if it's too harsh. I want these people to act like a real debater should be, like people in KMC or other forums. My bad.

 

Sorry everyone. I just want to speak the real truth. Just if all of you want to know, I like Revan and Star Forge. Hell, KOTOR is my favorite SW game after JK:JO and JK:JA.

 

I just want a good debate.

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Debate is good, but to this extreme level (and with the level of hostility) over something as silly as this is pointless.

 

I've come to dislike vs. threads for this very reason - the enmity they create over something we're all here to discuss and enjoy - the KOTOR series, and Star Wars at large.

 

I will say this, though - it's impossible to compare the Death Star to the Star Forge, because, apart from what we see in KOTOR, we know nothing about the Star Forge - we never hear anything about it's defenses, shields or otherwise.

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EDIT: Thanks for the information.

 

Well, this is my way of educating people. Sorry if it's too harsh. I want these people to act like a real debater should be, like people in KMC or other forums. My bad.

 

Sorry everyone. I just want to speak the real truth. Just if all of you want to know, I like Revan and Star Forge. Hell, KOTOR is my favorite SW game after JK:JO and JK:JA.

 

I just want a good debate.

 

Not everyone wants your "Education", that's not why the come to this board. In the short time I've been here all of the Vs. threads I've looked in have been full of unnecessary hostility. It's not like this would ever happen, and so get so aggressive over it is... well quite pointless.

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Just admit you and your side lose, and I won't continue with this thread again.

 

This is maybe not the best way to 'educate' people. It is essentially saying that if others agree with you, then there will be no conflict. That is exactly opposite of what you claim to be going for. You're not going to persuade people by telling them they're wrong again and again.

 

This thread is very relative and widely open to interpretation. If the specifications of the competition are narrowed down to having the DS and Star Forge being pitted against one another under your assumptions, then yes, the Death Star will win. Under the conditions I would use, the SF's position is not known and both sides have months of preparations before this competition actually happens.

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^Nope. This is how I educate (perhaps share information is a better word) people here. I want all of you to use sources, feats and facts, not baseless and false assumption.

 

By the way, I grow tired of this. It's up for you to decide who's the winner. I'm just asking one thing, give some thoughts about my posts before you decide, okay?:)

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^Nope. This is how I educate (perhaps share information is a better word) people here. I want all of you to use sources, feats and facts, not baseless and false assumption.

 

By the way, I grow tired of this. It's up for you to decide who's the winner. I'm just asking one thing, give some thoughts about my posts before you decide, okay?:)

 

So let me get this straight, you educate people. By being hostile and aggressive. Hmm... maybe wife beater are right and should beat their women to "educate" them.

 

People have used sources feats and facts, we know that the star forge is powered by a start, can build things incredibly fast, can create intelligent droids, ect...

 

It seems like a preatty equal fight just from that.

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The problem is that the conditions of victory, the way the battle is set up, and how the fight is staged hasn't been specified. Without those, this entire debate is pointless.

 

And the conditions for victory are critical because victory doesn't explicitly mean one side must destroy the other. If you compared the Rebel blockade runner to an ISD, victory may have been that Princess Leia's ship escaped the ISD... not that it could destroy the ISD.

 

All this hostility, complaints, demands for proof, and false assumptions are not going to get anywhere. You can't make a clear answer w/out all the pieces to make an effective argument. We don't know whether the SF could survive an attack by the DS, but I really don't care if it can't. I would still prefer a SF over a DS.

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Another failed attempt. Do you even realize that this post is another form of "will be", "what-ifs", "could be". Bring real facts, not baseless speculation. See how posters in other sites debate.

 

If they "debate" like you do on other sites, then I think no one wants to. The only thing you say to support the DS is "It has a planet busting superlaser, i totally PWNS, OWNS and KILLZ EVERYTHING!!!" and then you say that everyone else fails. I'm sorry, but you really should get out more, maybe watch a debate on TV or something. You'll see that they don't do it as you do. And for the "what if's": It is a total what if that the Star Forge and Death Star are pitted against each other in the first place, so the whole thread, espically your posts, are based on "what-ifs", "will be's" and "could be's". Which makes essientally all your posts, total bull****. Since you obviously can't debate, understand how a debate works, or anything about them, you fail. Sorry if I seemed mean, but I just got so annoyed by your stupid posts that just say things about how others fail, and not how much you fail. And don't try to educate people, since most people here have probably gratuated, which means that you don't have to educate them, maybe it's they that should educate you instead, you obviously need it.

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If they "debate" like you do on other sites, then I think no one wants to. The only thing you say to support the DS is "It has a planet busting superlaser, i totally PWNS, OWNS and KILLZ EVERYTHING!!!" and then you say that everyone else fails. I'm sorry, but you really should get out more, maybe watch a debate on TV or something. You'll see that they don't do it as you do. And for the "what if's": It is a total what if that the Star Forge and Death Star are pitted against each other in the first place, so the whole thread, espically your posts, are based on "what-ifs", "will be's" and "could be's". Which makes essientally all your posts, total bull****. Since you obviously can't debate, understand how a debate works, or anything about them, you fail. Sorry if I seemed mean, but I just got so annoyed by your stupid posts that just say things about how others fail, and not how much you fail. And don't try to educate people, since most people here have probably gratuated, which means that you don't have to educate them, maybe it's they that should educate you instead, you obviously need it.

 

Please can we stop the argument? But really. No more aggressive posts.

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Please can we stop the argument? But really. No more aggressive posts.

 

I agree, I'm sorry for the aggressive post, but I just needed to tell him that. As I said in my post I was just so annoyed by his behavior. I totally agree with stopping the argument, I have said what I have to say, and I won't say more on the subject.

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I have been trying to make my posts/arguments civil and not to aggressive and I hope that they haven't come off as aggressive. I'm perfecting willing to continue this discussion if we create a fair scenario as this thread has no details given.

 

However I can't say that I'm not disappointed that some of my posts/counterarguments have been ignored when I addressed some issues I have with SF's sides arguments. Then instead of addressing my counter argument someone would just post the exact same thing that my counter argument was addressing.

 

But like I said, I believe we can discuss this civilly in a new thread, if someone from the SF would "P.M." me, then I'm sure we could come up with a realistic scenario if people want to continue on this topic or a similar one. (ex. GE vs JCW SE)

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Yeah, I have not made one flame remark towards anyone on this thread. Witty? Sure. Flame? No. I wanted to have a decent debate with Ultimate Vader, but apparently that was not his wish.

 

And my apology Darth Hord for not replying to your counter arguments. I was primarily focused on Ultimate Vader's arguments. I will reply now:

The problem with this theory is that it took the rebels a long time to get the Death Star plans and then analyze them. Malak's fighters would have no clue of the death stars weakness.

 

And how many moon size battle stations with super lasers are there in the kotor era......

Well consider the massive difference between the resources of Revan's Sith Empire and the Rebel Alliance. It'd be easier for Revan and/or Malak to find out what the Star Forge's weakness is, and if it is Revan in command he's likely to think of it pretty quickly.

It has never produced droid control ships before so it magically can now? And can we be realist here?

The Star Forge did not produce Sith warships until Revan's Sith feed in the schematics. We are talking the Star Forge, mate. That means that as long as it has the schematics it can build ANYTHING MECHANICAL.

30 minutes is a really long time, the GE decided to use Yavin's orbit to get to the moon once they in the system to get around the planet. The SF is floating on top of the sun, what's going to get in the DS's way.

Disruptor field that Darth Yuthura mentions, Sith fleet....

I don't think it (SF) had one (shield) and if did, it couldn't be that powerful. During the attack o the star forge, the sith were pwning the republic until Bastilla switched sides and then the remaining republic ships that broke through the lines were able to destroy it, and it was rather quick too so I don't see how it had it's own personal energy shield. The Empire's star destroyers are way more powerful then the 315m cruisers that destroyed the SF, so if they(and it would take lesser # of ships too) were to break through the line the it would be destroyed faster. So if 4000 yr. old republic crusiers can destroy it then a battlestation with enough power to destroy a planet (those republic cruisers/fighters don't have that type of combined) firepower can certainly do the same.

Just because the Star Forge did not have a shield then does not mean one is impossible. Usually the Rakata/Sith would rely on the disruptor field, but it is perfectly possible to reconfigure that station to produce a shield (given that the Apex of the Infinite Empire has an Infinite Power Source).

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And my apology Darth Hord for not replying to your counter arguments. I was primarily focused on Ultimate Vader's arguments. I will reply now:

 

*chokes* Apology accepted Captain Needa *chokes* :vadar:

 

I'll address your post a little later as I'm on my way out now.

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Well consider the massive difference between the resources of Revan's Sith Empire and the Rebel Alliance. It'd be easier for Revan and/or Malak to find out what the Star Forge's weakness is,

I assume you mean the Death Star, not the star forge. But you have to look at how the rebel leaders first found about it purposes. The rebels knew of the death star pior to Vade capturing the rebel leaders and bringing them to Palpatine on the death star (during the force unleashed game,) where he revealed the stations name and purpose. So unless Revan tries to pull a starkiller move, then his empire would find out the hard way. And again your coming up with a scenario that makes this a major military campaign but as I have been saying I would like to make a new thread with a fair scenario because this is becoming the Galactic Empire vs Revan/Malak's sith empire (and this would allow for other circumstances not mentioned to come into play, so we must haves some sort of guideline, feel free to message me if anyone wants to) Otherwise you can't compare the two due to their different purposes.(The OP really made a bad thread)

 

and if it is Revan in command he's likely to think of it pretty quickly.

Revan is not a military technician, he would need to acquire the death star plans and have a technician team extensively look over them (again this assuming were talking about the DS 1 and not some version of the second DS which has no exhaust port) as the empire looked over the exhaust port as a weakness then so could his. (im not saying they will but it is certainly a possibility) but Revan himself wont solve it, his best mechanical feat is building HK47 but building a droid (not matter how cool HK is) is not comparable to this.

 

The Star Forge did not produce Sith warships until Revan's Sith feed in the schematics.

And where will he get these schematics? No droids in his time could do this. And the empire doesn't make use of them. (i will say it again, we need to come up with a scenario because this can go a lot of different ways)

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I assume you mean the Death Star, not the star forge.

WHOOPS! Sorry, yes I mean the Death Star.

But you have to look at how the rebel leaders first found about it purposes. The rebels knew of the death star pior to Vade capturing the rebel leaders and bringing them to Palpatine on the death star (during the force unleashed game,) where he revealed the stations name and purpose. So unless Revan tries to pull a starkiller move, then his empire would find out the hard way. And again your coming up with a scenario that makes this a major military campaign but as I have been saying I would like to make a new thread with a fair scenario because this is becoming the Galactic Empire vs Revan/Malak's sith empire (and this would allow for other circumstances not mentioned to come into play, so we must haves some sort of guideline, feel free to message me if anyone wants to) Otherwise you can't compare the two due to their different purposes.(The OP really made a bad thread)

I'll have to agree with the very last statement. Too many variables....

Revan is not a military technician, he would need to acquire the death star plans and have a technician team extensively look over them (again this assuming were talking about the DS 1 and not some version of the second DS which has no exhaust port) as the empire looked over the exhaust port as a weakness then so could his. (im not saying they will but it is certainly a possibility) but Revan himself wont solve it, his best mechanical feat is building HK47 but building a droid (not matter how cool HK is) is not comparable to this.

It wouldn't be too hard to assemble a tech team based upon the Sith Empire's finest. As for getting the plans, you just gave me a way: HK-47. There is no one more perfect for the job than our favorite assassin droid.

 

But I agree this thread was badly constructed. I think we need to create an entirely new one: Revan's Sith Empire vs. Palpatine's Galactic Empire. That might be very fun.

 

Now that question is: Do you want to make it or shall I?

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Disruptor field that Darth Yuthura mentions

Right, the disruptor field affects electrical systems not superlasers. The disruptor field could cause it’s electrical systems to overload but due to it’s size it would stay in orbit and not crash into the planet (if it was in Lehon’s orbit)

 

Sith fleet....

Wont stand much of a chance, the first death star had the following armaments:

 

Scattered across the Death Star's surface were thousands of weapons emplacements: a total of 10,000 turbolaser batteries, 2,500 laser cannons, 2,500 ion cannons and 768 tractor beam projectors. The station carried a crew of 265,675, plus 52,276 gunners, 607,360 troops, 25,984 stormtroopers, 42,782 ship support staff, and 167,216 pilots and support crew. The station also carried 7,200 starfighters, four strike cruisers, 3,600 assault shuttles, 1,400 AT-ATs, 1,400 AT-STs, 1,860 drop ships, and more. (source is the sw databank

 

And the second death star would be a lot stronger. And even at 4% power the beam of the first death star could destroy a 3000 km ship as did to the rebel alliance's Lucrehulk-class battleship called the Fortressa.

 

The following is Tarkins thoughts in the death star novel:

 

There must be trade-offs, he had said. In order to mount a weapon of mundicidal means, shielding capabilities would have to be downgraded to a rudimentary level. Power, Bevel had said, was not infinite, even on a station this size, fueled by the largest hypermatter reactor ever built. However, given the surface-to-vacuum defenses, the number of fighters, turbolaser batteries, charged-particle blasters, magnetic railguns, proton torpedo banks, ion cannons, and a host of other protective devices, no naval ship of any size would be even a remote threat. A fleet of Imperial-class Star Destroyers—even a fleet of Super-class Star Destroyers, should such a thing ever exist—would offer no real danger to the battle station once it was fully operational. Given all that, a shield system that was less than perfect at times wasn't such a high price to pay for the ability to vaporize a planet.

 

Though he is probably arrogant there is truth in his words (just look at the armaments i posted, i am aware that i posted info about the shield capabilities but i am all for getting the facts out) and now we know how the rebels destroyed it with starfighters but we have to consider the following facts about it's destruction, before we can assume that the same could happen here.

 

1.The rebels knew it weakness if the death star, if the Malak(who the OP puts in charge of the SF in the original post) doesn't know it's weakness he will be sending his interdictors to their destruction. Should the DS come with a fleet (which it likely would because once the empire knows of the SF,they would of the fleet present) then that further increases the Empire's chances at a victory because the fleet would be superior in every single way except maybe numbers (no number is given for the sith at the battle of the star forge though we have to consider the size of the GE fleet at Endor and the fact that if the GE knew of the star forge's location they likely know it's the capital of Malak's war effort so they would probably send a bigger fleet. )

 

2.The rebels got real lucky.(or as the jedi would say, they had the force on their side) Most the of the rebel starfighters were destroyed, Luke was the only fighter to really escape the trench run (Vader let Wedge escape because he was no longer a threat) and Luke only got the shot off because Han's interference.

 

3. To quote myself regarding the exhaust port:

And even if they do somehow discover the exhaust port (if this is the first death star) then they still would have to get pass all the turrets, tie fighters, (who have 4000 year tech. advantage which would come into play) there still is no guarantee they can hit it. Even some of the rebel pilots didn't believe it was possible plus the first X-win who shot with a targeting computer (no doubt it was more advanced then it's kotor counterpart) still missed. Luke used the force to hit the exhaust port. (and he wouldn't have had the shot if not for Han)
The sith fighter aren't known for having proton torpedos either, for the record. (im sure they may have some of the sort (or we could give them it in a new fair thread) but it had to be brought up)

 

Just because the Star Forge did not have a shield then does not mean one is impossible. Usually the Rakata/Sith would rely on the disruptor field, but it is perfectly possible to reconfigure that station to produce a shield (given that the Apex of the Infinite Empire has an Infinite Power Source).

 

They would have to know when the Empire was coming for that to happen. Not to mention then they would have face even more then before since without the disruptor field to take down a couple of SD’s. But the Empire has man resources available to attack the temple. If they reroute the disruptor field to an energy shield then the planet would be unprotected from being glassed by SDs or blown up by the DS And I would like post the following from the "destruction of Alderaan's" page" from wookieepedia

 

Although it has been debated, a shield effect is still present in the post-1997 version of Alderaan's destruction. In frames 4 and 5, the glow is concentrated in an area surrounding the point of impact, like shield interactions seen elsewhere in the films. The uniform glow also extends far out into space, beyond the limits of natural atmospheres. The original novelization of the film also has a reference to defense systems on Alderaan, which were as strong as any in the Empire, and helped make the demonstration even more impressive

 

I will say this again, I believe we need to make a new thread and I welcome anyone to help me make the parameters because there are too many scenarios that can happen here, due to the vagueness of this thread.

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The Empire wouldn't be able to touch the temple. Any non-Force sensitives wouldn't be able to get near it, and the Empire's Inquisitors and Dark Jedi wouldn't bother trying to negotiate with either of the Rakata clans. Not that they would have the patience to even try to understand the Rakatan language.

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The Empire wouldn't be able to touch the temple. Any non-Force sensitives wouldn't be able to get near it' date=' and the Empire's Inquisitors and Dark Jedi wouldn't bother trying to negotiate with either of the Rakata clans. Not that they would have the patience to even try to understand the Rakatan language.[/quote']

 

What's to stop Sidious or Vader from pulling a Revan and ripping the language from their mind ? Or they could lie like Revan did and say they want to destroy it thus having the rakatan open it for them. Or they could tunnel their way underneath into the catacombs... I also think your giving the inquisitors the common stereo type that all dark siders are morons and only tactic is brute force, some of them are quite intelligent.

 

Edit: Sorry for the double post

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