Samuel Dravis Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-healthcare-passage22-2010mar22,0,2788293.story http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34781.html Whatever one thinks about it, it's a big (938 billion dollar) change in How Things Work. In addition, it was done on a strict party line-- no Republicans voted for it. The reconciliation bill has yet to be passed, however, which will contain modifications to this law, as well as eliminating subsidies to private lenders for educational loans. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Will be interesting to see what fallout there is politically in November. Also, what the final "bill" will look like after going back through the Senate for reconciliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I expected no GOP members would vote for it. I'm a bit surprised that Pelosi was able to pull it off. She may have more chutzpah/machiavellianism/whatever you want to call it than I give her credit for. I think the only reason this got passed was because Obama went 'back on the campaign trail', so to speak, to save the Dem's butts with their constituents. If he hadn't done that, I don't know that Pelosi would have had enough votes to do it. However, Obama needed this win as badly as Pelosi and Reid did. It remains to be seen how much this affects the elections in November. There's talk that Obama's former Senate seat might possibly go to the GOP even, though it's still too early to tell. Eliminating subsidies to private lenders just sweetened the pot for the Dems, I think, but I'm not sure how much it affected the vote either way. This became for me a much more personal issue. With my sister being diagnosed with cancer, the fact that her insurance company now can't drop her or raise her insurance rates to exorbitantly high levels makes me feel better about her being able to get the care she needs when she needs it down the road. It's going to be one less worry for the entire family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I guess it's going to be a repeat, politically speaking. Pelosi: Let's pass it first, then we will tell you, the people, what's in the bill. ... We the people: yahthanks The 'success' of the program several years downis going to be hinged upon how many people just pay the fine if it's cheaper if they can't afford insurance. Will be interesting to see what fallout there is politically in November. Also, what the final "bill" will look like after going back through the Senate for reconciliation. Ah yes. The fun begins. All the accusations, the fur flying. The media on both sides getting a rile up of each others dander. The bureaucracy and the long drawn out proceedings of all the cases that will be televised over the next several years. We will pay for it now even though a number of the benefits don't start for 4 years. Life goes on I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrtoken Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Commence the whining in 3... 2... 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) That is my only contribution to this Otherwise I'm here to referee the debate in a neutral capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Pelosi: Let's pass it first, then we will tell you, the people, what's in the bill. ... I would have liked that version better than the one they actually used, “Let’s negotiate and get the other side’s input to come up with a bipartisan bill. However, instead the other side waters the bill down to nothing while using false scare tactics to make naive Americans believe Obama is going to set up death panels to kill them. They care nothing about American’s health care, they say they care about the economy, but refused to lift a finger to actually work on a problem that cost were becoming unsustainable for our economy, for our industry and “more importantly” for our citizens. Still love how they say we are going to pay for those that can’t afford insurance under this plan. Do they really think we are that stupid? The ones with insurance now are paying for those without insurance. That is why I was billed for a one block ambulance ride $3,000.00. I can’t wait for the first lawsuit by my state to be filed, because I’ve already plan on using the can of worms that will open up to sue the state over requiring me to purchase apartment insurance and auto insurance. I am one of the poll numbers that was against this bill, I believe it does not go far enough, but hopefully it is better than the same old same that the Republican's endorse. Let's all go back to the 1950's when America was great. At least for some Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I am one of the poll numbers that was against this bill, I believe it does not go far enough, but hopefully it is better than the same old same that the Republican endorse. It's a start. Not a great one, but considering we had nothing before, we've taken a giant leap forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Yes, yes, we've already got the albatross of close to $100 Trillion of unfunded mandates hanging around our necks, what's a new entitlement program here or there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quanon Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Can't add much serious (living in healthcare paradise aka Belgium) to this thread, but I hope this might be a start to a better system. Where the whole USA can benifit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Yes, yes, we've already got the albatross of close to $100 Trillion of unfunded mandates hanging around our necks Leave the Defense Budget out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 ^^^Would it be relevant if we start a thread on our national debt? @J7: OK serioulsy......lolwut?! Where'd THAT come from Still love how they say we are going to pay for those that can’t afford insurance under this plan. Do they really think we are that stupid? The ones with insurance now are paying for those without insurance. That is why I was billed for a one block ambulance ride $3,000.00. I can’t wait for the first lawsuit by my state to be filed, because I’ve already plan on using the can of worms that will open up to sue the state over requiring me to purchase apartment insurance and auto insurance. Huh? Somehow I don't doubt the government will come after everyone for some kind of payment. It's the government and they pursue you for every little penny of taxes. This is obviously going into the total of our taxes. Why wouldn't they charge everyone? And if they make people with insurance pay more, then that implies they're setting up the insurance companies to fall, because a later step would be to slip in something else at a later date with the growing discontent. So you have kinda lost me here...It eventually would become what you wanted it to be so I don't follow what you're unhappy with, except maybe that they just didn't do it soon enough, ala cart'e blan`che. Is this the case? (and all you naysayers that are going to be accusing me of slippery slope, just stop for a second and think about it, especially considering the stated ultimate goal of some officials of this administration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Leave the Defense Budget out of this. I only wish that were the Defense Budget we were talking about. It's actually SS and MC for the baby boomers and beyond. Trouble looms on the horizon: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=au5M0WphL81g&refer=worldwide http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYUeBnitz7nU @GTA--no need for slippery slope, Barney Frank candidly admitted that that's exactly what they were moving toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urluckyday Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I wish I was a democrat in congress right now...I coulda made an ###-load by voting Nay and waiting to be paid off by Pelosi and pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ping Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'm actually glad the bill passed. Why? Our system used to be subpar compared to other developed countries. Therefore, reform was needed. Now, it's more or less on par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 This needed to pass to, at least, put regulations on the insurance companies so they'd stop dropping anyone who needed to, you know, use their services. If being unable to pull the plug on their members when they get cancer ends up putting them out of business... so be it. As it stands almost nobody in this country has insurance because, when it really matter, the execs will pull it out from under you anyway. I'm interested to see whats going to happen once this bill finally goes through and we can focus on more important matters, however. We should probably be squeezing companies to stop outsourcing their jobs for starters. I wish I was a democrat in congress right now...I coulda made an ###-load by voting Nay and waiting to be paid off by Pelosi and pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ping Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/22/health.care.lawsuit/index.html?hpt=T1 So, they still refuse to give up? One of the reasons why I've lost respect for these Republicans - they just refuse to accept they've been defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Avlectus Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 We should probably be squeezing companies to stop outsourcing their jobs for starters. Coming from you that's news to my ears b/c a year or so ago you had a very different attitude about it. IIRC something about how we need to keep business going strong, and not be isolationist. What finally changed your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 So, they still refuse to give up? One of the reasons why I've lost respect for these Republicans - they just refuse to accept they've been defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/22/health.care.lawsuit/index.html?hpt=T1 So, they still refuse to give up? One of the reasons why I've lost respect for these Republicans - they just refuse to accept they've been defeated. Wonder if you feel the same way about the the progressive dems who never gave up either in the face of many "defeats". Besides, why should they give up? This particular bill is highly questionable, debatably unconstitutional and the byproduct of a very sleazy process by very sleazy politicians. I've got to say that this congress under Pelosi has been the complete antithesis of the "most ethical" one she bragged about not too long ago. Interestingly, this bill also federalizes the school loan program. From the people who gave you the Fannie and Freddie debacle...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 :unconstitutional Thank you for your learned opinion Chief Justice Roberts. So far all the arguments I’ve seen saying that it is unconstitutional have precedence and have been upheld in prior decisions. The forced purchase of auto insurance has been going on at the state level since the 1970’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Since requirements to have auto insurance have not been found unconstitutional, I doubt requiring citizens to have health insurance is going to be found unconstitutional, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Coming from you that's news to my ears b/c a year or so ago you had a very different attitude about it. IIRC something about how we need to keep business going strong, and not be isolationist. What finally changed your mind? I don't really think I changed my mind. Did I? I don't think isolationist and business going strong are mutually exclusive or whatever. We outsource all our jobs... which leads to bad business and a lacking economy. Isolationist would be more, we make our own stuff but don't sell or buy from anything outside our borders. Least that is how I define them *shrugs* debatably unconstitutional Wat, when did this become unconstitutional? Hasn't all kinds of insurance been required for years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 From what I've heard, requiring health insurance isn't the part that is unconstitutional. What I've heard about is a specific clause that would make it impossible to repeal this bill once it's passed into law. That's unconstitutional (and illegal) as hell if true, and a huge loophole for the Republicans once they regain power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverandbacon Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Leave the Defense Budget out of this. If only Congressmen, both Democrat and Republican, didn't spend so much of our defense budget on pet projects unwanted and unneeded by the military, we might have both a lower Defense budget, and a more effective, better protected fighting force. But back OT: I'm curious to see how this turns out, and I can't honestly make a full judgment on this considering how much is still unknown about the bill. If the claims that it includes a clause forbidding its repeal are true, I will be pretty pissed off, but I'll hold all bile and rage in check until I find out for certain if that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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